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12-06-2019, 09:11   #16
Del2005
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Originally Posted by Roen View Post
Can you drill into pvc doors/frames? I mean if you don't hit steel you'll just be into the plastic.
It's a Senator door.
It's only to keep a child in doors, strong adhesive will be enough.
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12-06-2019, 17:31   #17
Roen
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On to the-keys guys.
As was started they have to have the door easily openable in case of fire so you can't disable from the inside.
At least with my current set up if the side panel was smashed you'd still need the key.

When asked is the cylinder anti bump or anti snap the guy just pointed me at this: https://www.ces.eu/en_us/products/me...g-systems.html
Not sure what I'm supposed to be reading there but I'm guessing the cylinder is a step back from what I have.

The convenience of a smart lock would be something I'd really love but if it means a step back in security I'm not so sure.
The search continues.
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12-06-2019, 18:44   #18
bk
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Originally Posted by Roen View Post
On to the-keys guys.
As was started they have to have the door easily openable in case of fire so you can't disable from the inside.
At least with my current set up if the side panel was smashed you'd still need the key.
I just thought, a lot of these smart locks have a button on them on the inside that allows you to unlock without the app (probably for the fire reasons, you wouldn't want to be searching around for your phone to unlock the door if there was a fire).

But this means if someone was to smash the glass, then they could open many of these smart locks.

Though perhaps you can disable that button in the app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roen View Post
When asked is the cylinder anti bump or anti snap the guy just pointed me at this: https://www.ces.eu/en_us/products/me...g-systems.html
Not sure what I'm supposed to be reading there but I'm guessing the cylinder is a step back from what I have.
Looks like a high security key, in other words a key that is hard to duplicate. But doesn't look anything special bump wise.

It isn't a surprise that it is a step back in security, the lock you have is one of the best and most expensive locks.

However the question I'd have, should you even really consider a lock to really be a security device? I mean even with a good lock, most doors have a poor frame and can usually be relatively easily smashed in anyway.

You know the old saying "A lock only keeps honest people out."

If you can afford a smart lock, then I'd assume you already have a security alarm system and maybe IP cameras.

A shock sensor on that door/glass, which would set off the alarm if someone smashed it. IP cameras inside and out that would notify you of such an event and record it.

If an IP camera pointing in a burglars face and a blaring security alarm doesn't bother him, I'm not sure even a good lock would make much of a difference.

Based on that, I wonder if it is ok to go with perhaps a slightly less secure smart lock if you feel like you would benefit from the convenience?

Security is almost always a trade off between security and convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roen View Post
The convenience of a smart lock would be something I'd really love but if it means a step back in security I'm not so sure.
The search continues.
Did you check out Nuki, it looks like that might work with your existing lock and key?
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12-06-2019, 18:53   #19
Del2005
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Originally Posted by bk View Post
I just thought, a lot of these smart locks have a button on them on the inside that allows you to unlock without the app (probably for the fire reasons, you wouldn't want to be searching around for your phone to unlock the door if there was a fire).

But this means if someone was to smash the glass, then they could open many of these smart locks.

Though perhaps you can disable that button in the app.



Looks like a high security key, in other words a key that is hard to duplicate. But doesn't look anything special bump wise.

It isn't a surprise that it is a step back in security, the lock you have is one of the best and most expensive locks.

However the question I'd have, should you even really consider a lock to really be a security device? I mean even with a good lock, most doors have a poor frame and can usually be relatively easily smashed in anyway.

You know the old saying "A lock only keeps honest people out."

If you can afford a smart lock, then I'd assume you already have a security alarm system and maybe IP cameras.

A shock sensor on that door/glass, which would set off the alarm if someone smashed it. IP cameras inside and out that would notify you of such an event and record it.

If an IP camera pointing in a burglars face and a blaring security alarm doesn't bother him, I'm not sure even a good lock would make much of a difference.

Based on that, I wonder if it is ok to go with perhaps a slightly less secure smart lock if you feel like you would benefit from the convenience?

Security is almost always a trade off between security and convenience.



Did you check out Nuki, it looks like that might work with your existing lock and key?
Better to keep them out with a decent lock than have a recording of someone in a hoddy robbing your home. People ignore alarms and while a verified person on premises will get a Garda response it'll be a low priority response and with their staffing issues might not be responded to. I know someone who was in their home when someone broke in and their partner arrived long before the Gardai.
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12-06-2019, 19:11   #20
bk
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Better to keep them out with a decent lock than have a recording of someone in a hoddy robbing your home. People ignore alarms and while a verified person on premises will get a Garda response it'll be a low priority response and with their staffing issues might not be responded to. I know someone who was in their home when someone broke in and their partner arrived long before the Gardai.
Problem is, once you starting thinking about this, you quickly realise that even a decent lock isn't going to stop a burglar who is that determined.

Lock is good, then they just take a hammer to a window. Or pop out the externally beaded glass of a window. Or they take a crow bar or sledgehammer to the door and frame.

If they are going to smash the glass in the door to use the lock. Then clearly they are a person who has no issue with strolling over to a downstairs window or patio door and smashing that and then going through that if the lock is too good.

So yes, you can put a good lock in, but that now just shifts the weak point. If you are serious about this, you should be replacing your door and frame with a high security door and re-inforced frame and of course you need to do this for both the front and back door and any patio door. And now you need to replace all the windows with at least high security glass and maybe even those iron bars/shutters like in Brazil...

And all of that is going to cost thousands.
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12-06-2019, 22:19   #21
Roen
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Cheers lads, all interesting points. Hope the conversation is of use to you @Rew.

Looking at them all they all seem to lack something or other.
I'll have to compromise or wait it out.
Thanks again.

Last edited by Roen; 13-06-2019 at 06:29.
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13-06-2019, 12:53   #22
Rew
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Yeah its all very interesting. Everyone should break into their own house at least once it's an eye opener. I opened the front door of a previous house with a shovel from my shed when we accidentally left a key in the lock on the inside. There was no damage to the door in the process. You make your house unattractive to burglar and tick the insurance boxes soy you're covered.
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19-06-2019, 07:14   #23
Roen
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Got on to Nuki support there and showed them a vid of how my door and lock operate. They don't work with handles you need to lift to lock. Now you can always lift it yourself when you come in or leave so the lock can do it's thing.
That breaks down when you have a guest or delivery person who forgets to.

I asked them is the lock able to sense if it's twisting against something it can't turn but got no answer.

So potentially the lock mechanism could knacker itself if you or someone forgot to lift a handle.

I guess you'll never get a one size fits all solution for something like this.

EDIT.
Ah they got back, confirmed it can't sense if it'll be twisting against something that can't turn.

Last edited by Roen; 19-06-2019 at 07:36.
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19-06-2019, 11:06   #24
wexfordman2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roen View Post
Got on to Nuki support there and showed them a vid of how my door and lock operate. They don't work with handles you need to lift to lock. Now you can always lift it yourself when you come in or leave so the lock can do it's thing.
That breaks down when you have a guest or delivery person who forgets to.

I asked them is the lock able to sense if it's twisting against something it can't turn but got no answer.

So potentially the lock mechanism could knacker itself if you or someone forgot to lift a handle.

I guess you'll never get a one size fits all solution for something like this.

EDIT.
Ah they got back, confirmed it can't sense if it'll be twisting against something that can't turn.
Thats interesting. Was thinking about a smart lock for our new door (we just got a new palladio door fitted about 6 months ago). Palladio had the yale smart lock as an option, which we didnt go fo, but our door is also one that you need to lift the handle to lock, so wonder how that worked with the yale system, or would it have meant a different locking mechanism entirely for the door.

Think a few people raised the issue of insurance cover with these smart locks as well, but would love to get one if there was a suitable brand for my door.
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19-06-2019, 21:51   #25
Roen
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The Yale yoke is the entire handle though. Watched the installation vid on it and it's way more involved than the other options here.

The majority of the smart locks mentioned here either use your existing cylinder or replace it with your own without touching the handle mechanism.
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