Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Kerry Airport - News & Updates

17810121316

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Shamrockj


    So EI want more money from the government to operate an A320 or to be let out of the contract.

    Wonder what the outcome will be, particularly when there is now international precedent
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/france-bans-short-domestic-flights-on-routes-that-can-be-done-by-train-1.4534312

    The contract was with Stobart and operated under the Aer Lingus franchise. Also I don’t see how the situation in France has anything to do with this considering this is a route supported by the government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭Deatr


    embraer170 wrote: »
    Was the contract with Aer Lingus or with Stobart. Is there even still a valid contract?

    Contract was with STK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Shamrockj wrote: »
    The contract was with Stobart and operated under the Aer Lingus franchise. Also I don’t see how the situation in France has anything to do with this considering this is a route supported by the government.

    The situation in France sets a major precedent in the EU for state funding of aviation.. The french government has basically made their bail out of AF conditional on an end being put to domestic flights where a viable rail alternative exists for environmental reasons.. In an age of flight shaming and climate change as a major political issue, that is clever politics..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Masala


    The situation in France sets a major precedent in the EU for state funding of aviation.. The french government has basically made their bail out of AF conditional on an end being put to domestic flights where a viable rail alternative exists for environmental reasons.. In an age of flight shaming and climate change as a major political issue, that is clever politics..

    You cant get a Train to Donegal...... the closest train station is Sligo.

    And it takes 3 ½ -4 ½ hrs on a train from Tralee to Dublin (one way!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Shamrockj


    The situation in France sets a major precedent in the EU for state funding of aviation.. The french government has basically made their bail out of AF conditional on an end being put to domestic flights where a viable rail alternative exists for environmental reasons.. In an age of flight shaming and climate change as a major political issue, that is clever politics..

    Yeah I still don't see the connection to be honest. The route is in place and subsidised as Kerry is at a disadvantage to other parts of the country due to the lack of ground transport. The rail network in France is vastly different to our own. The thread is about Kerry airport so its not relevant to be honest.. In terms of politics it won't go down well if the route isn't reinstated both by local politics and the overall " Balanced regional development" .


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The French flights being ended aren't even PSO. PSO routes require there to be no sensible road or rail based alternative or else the State can't subsidise them.

    For those not aware of where Donegal Airport is, it is not in or anywhere near Letterkenny or Donegal Town, one of which is where most people from the rest of the country think of when they think of Donegal. Those aren't anywhere near each other to begin with!

    It's in NW Donegal, on an isthmus out to a former island - the only suitable flat land for a runway anywhere nearby.

    Google gives a near 9h public transit journey from the airport to Dublin city centre, with some slightly shorter alternatives ("only" 6.5h) not being available due to COVID related suspensions. That 9h would be the norm in winter. Nothing leaves early enough to actually make use of any time on the day you arrive, so you burn an entire day travelling in each direction. If you go to the nearby "population centre" - all thousand of them - of Dungloe you can shade it just under 6h and arrive late afternoon, again basically losing the day.

    Its in a part of the country with close to no infrastructure other than the airport - that's why it has the flight. There will very likely be a short term, non-tender contract awarded to DAT or Loganair to get the service going as it is absolutely essential.

    I'll let someone with more knowledge of Kerry make the arguments for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The situation in France sets a major precedent in the EU for state funding of aviation.. The french government has basically made their bail out of AF conditional on an end being put to domestic flights where a viable rail alternative exists for environmental reasons.. In an age of flight shaming and climate change as a major political issue, that is clever politics..

    The French decision to ban certain domestic flights applies only to a very small number of flights.

    It is only where the alternative train journey is less than 2.5 hours.

    Even then, flights can continue to operate for passengers connecting to international flights at a hub.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The French situation would be akin to Ireland banning Cork to Dublin flights, for which there is a clear viable alternative and the trip is more for aggressive time saving or convenience.

    If the Kerry PSO wasn't worthwhile, it would have been canned with the rest years ago. There are some places in Kerry where to drive to Dublin you route via Kerry Airport, and these places are 1hr30 from the airport or more at peak times. The flights are busy in non Covid times so there is a clear market for it.

    If there's higher speed rail from Dublin to Cork or an M21 from Abbeyfeale to Limerick the case gets diminished but neither of these are going to be there in the short term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Masala wrote: »
    You cant get a Train to Donegal...... the closest train station is Sligo.

    And it takes 3 ½ -4 ½ hrs on a train from Tralee to Dublin (one way!)

    Wasn’t suggesting dropping Donegal, which like the Aran islands is a genuine remote area with poor alternatives..

    The train run time could easily be improved with a Kerry line express service..

    The last few government reports have questioned the continued operation of the Kerry PSO, and bear in mind the last tender was issued when the government needed the support of rural independent TDs rather than the Green Party..

    https://assets.gov.ie/25103/267dd55358d34478893d153dcffbd018.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    marno21 wrote: »
    The French situation would be akin to Ireland banning Cork to Dublin flights, for which there is a clear viable alternative and the trip is more for aggressive time saving or convenience.

    If the Kerry PSO wasn't worthwhile, it would have been canned with the rest years ago. There are some places in Kerry where to drive to Dublin you route via Kerry Airport, and these places are 1hr30 from the airport or more at peak times. The flights are busy in non Covid times so there is a clear market for it.

    If there's higher speed rail from Dublin to Cork or an M21 from Abbeyfeale to Limerick the case gets diminished but neither of these are going to be there in the short term.

    The last two or three spending reviews have openly questioned whether it was viable so basically turning it into a political issue for the minister of the day to decide.. That the flights were busy at massively discounted prices before COVID does not mean they would be after with changes travel demand.

    Add in the hole in government finances from COVID also, as savings will be sought to balance the books


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭john boye


    The last two or three spending reviews have openly questioned whether it was viable so basically turning it into a political issue for the minister of the day to decide.. That the flights were busy at massively discounted prices before COVID does not mean they would be after with changes travel demand.

    Add in the hole in government finances from COVID also, as savings will be sought to balance the books

    This really is a bizarre little obsession of yours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Masala


    The last two or three spending reviews have openly questioned whether it was viable so basically turning it into a political issue for the minister of the day to decide.. That the flights were busy at massively discounted prices before COVID does not mean they would be after with changes travel demand.

    Add in the hole in government finances from COVID also, as savings will be sought to balance the books

    Shure...... just tell all those industries providing employment and people working in Kerry who need to do do business in the Capital to up-sticks and move to Dublin altogether. Shure - there's nothing worthwhile outside the Pale anyway worth Govt support.


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Shamrockj


    The last two or three spending reviews have openly questioned whether it was viable so basically turning it into a political issue for the minister of the day to decide.. That the flights were busy at massively discounted prices before COVID does not mean they would be after with changes travel demand.

    Add in the hole in government finances from COVID also, as savings will be sought to balance the books

    Were you always obsessed with the cost of the PSO that has been in operation for a very long time or just suddenly ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Shamrockj wrote: »
    Were you always obsessed with the cost of the PSO that has been in operation for a very long time or just suddenly ?

    Original.. Nope, just since I noticed empty planes flying over on their way to Kerry pumping out Co2 at the tax payers expense


  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Masala wrote: »
    Shure...... just tell all those industries providing employment and people working in Kerry who need to do do business in the Capital to up-sticks and move to Dublin altogether. Shure - there's nothing worthwhile outside the Pale anyway worth Govt support.

    You said it not me, just because I don’t support wasteful expenditure doesn’t mean I don’t believe in balanced regional development..

    Do you really think business is in Kerry just because it has flights to Dublin?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Environment stuff is off topic on a general thread


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    One of the cases made for the Derry flight is that it is regularly used to get cancer patients to and from Dublin for treatment, and given the problems that a road trip represents for people in that situation, the sooner it it back in action, the better.

    I drove down to that area a while back, and it's not the easiest of journeys, slightly easier if you can cut the corner and go through the Northern counties, but if you have to stick to Irish territory, and I did due to what was in the vehicle, it's not quick.

    We were doing a show in Donegal Town, but a few years back now, we were out in the area around the airport on a holiday visit, and most of the roads up there are not conducive to getting anywhere in a hurry.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Original.. Nope, just since I noticed empty planes flying over on their way to Kerry pumping out Co2 at the tax payers expense

    How do you know they are empty?

    What about all those almost empty buses driving all over the country pumping out CO2 while the 5km/inter County restriction was in place?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭embraer170


    First Hahn flight now pushed back to 01 August.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Lufthansa starting from Cork to Frankfurt Main tomorrow is sure to have an effect also on the Hahn flight.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    embraer170 wrote: »
    First Hahn flight now pushed back to 01 August.
    :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭embraer170


    theguzman wrote: »
    Lufthansa starting from Cork to Frankfurt Main tomorrow is sure to have an effect also on the Hahn flight.

    I imagine it will attract a different audience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Masala


    theguzman wrote: »
    Lufthansa starting from Cork to Frankfurt Main tomorrow is sure to have an effect also on the Hahn flight.

    German tourists who wan5 to go to Kerry won’t be bothered to shift across from the Ryanair into Kerry. There is going to be a significant cost difference to start with.

    Also the Kerry Airport experience is much better as well....

    So don’t see this as a threat to the Kerry Airport service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    Original.. Nope, just since I noticed empty planes flying over on their way to Kerry pumping out Co2 at the tax payers expense

    You appear to be unaware that a sizeable number of people use the PSO routes to attend various forms of vital medical treatment in Dublin.
    For some attending hospital a 8/10 hour round trip in a car or Public Transport is simply not feasible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Masala wrote: »
    German tourists who wan5 to go to Kerry won’t be bothered to shift across from the Ryanair into Kerry. There is going to be a significant cost difference to start with.

    Also the Kerry Airport experience is much better as well....

    So don’t see this as a threat to the Kerry Airport service.

    Your average traveler doesn't give a **** about that once the price is right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    Pat Dunne wrote: »
    You appear to be unaware that a sizeable number of people use the PSO routes to attend various forms of vital medical treatment in Dublin.
    Do you have CSO figures to support this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Ryanair to Hahn delayed by another month to September. At this point, I’m not sure we will see the flight operating this year. Ryanair plays an interesting game and about 2-3 days before they delay the restart, the prices are dropped dramatically (probably to encourage people to book and secure a bit of cash for a while).

    I’m not convinced medical visits are such a huge proportion of Kerry Dublin passengers. There’s probably a few, but I would say many would either not be fit enough to fly or would rather take the train (for free in many cases) / be driven by a family member.

    An Aer Lingus A320 was in Kerry a few days ago for movie filming. There are some photos on Twitter.

    No news on the PSO!?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Good to see Boards.ie back.

    Ryanair's non subsidised KIR-DUB is now bookable. Once daily from the end of the month and twice daily from September. Let's see how long that lasts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Masala


    Wow.... be interesting how long MOL will allocate a 737 to a route carrying maybe 50 pax on some days and maybe 10 pax another day.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    May be of advantage to FR to use DUB based aircraft, W pattern positioning aircraft for UK midday routes?



Advertisement