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11-06-2019, 11:04   #61
cruizer101
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Eh, that is pretty poor for a smart thermostat so IMO
I'd agree its not the best in that it doesn't allow for full level of control (it may be something they are looking into and could be implemented via software update).

If someone is buying I wouldn't necessarily recommend it but as a free unit I'm happy with it, the main thing I like is being able to boost on my way home so house is warm when I get home.
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11-06-2019, 11:11   #62
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it seems to be aimed at people who have no heating controls other than on/off and no zones. So it's literally just "better than nothing", but it is free, and anything more complicated would not be.
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11-06-2019, 14:01   #63
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it seems to be aimed at people who have no heating controls other than on/off and no zones. So it's literally just "better than nothing", but it is free, and anything more complicated would not be.
Well that would be me, single zone, no hot water zone, simple on/off. Yet my Netatmo allows for fine grained temperature control. I feel it is one of the most important benefits of smart thermostats.

A traditional setup was a separate timeclock and a thermostat, that worked together to give you some control, but could only do one temperature.

Later digital programmers, added more fine grained control of different temps at different times.

This seems to be a step back to the old ways of doing things. Which is strange, since there is no technical reason why it couldn't be done, even for a simple single zone setup. It is just a software feature afterall.
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12-06-2019, 09:54   #64
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I think its worth repeating some of my post on this in March 2018 , Home heating Automation Thread.

........ It's €249 to buy and self install which puts it right up there price wise, yet there's no mention of HW control, no Opentherm for advanced boilers, no Alexa, Google home , Apple homekit or IFTTT integration. It's a simple device at an advanced price.
It doesn't need a bridge to connect to the router, meaning it uses standard Wi-Fi. Battery powered stats normally use a very lo power radio link to their router hub/ bridge in order to get reasonable life. Nest uses normal WiFi and requires either a small phone style charger or power down the wires from it's heatlink box. This stat uses a battery, but it's rechargeable. How does it stay charged? My guess is it siphons power from the open circuit voltage of the heating relay. When the boiler is off, in a 2 wire system there will be 220v ( or possibly 24v dc) across the contacts. This can be used to power a charging circuit. When the contacts are closed it goes to battery power. As closed contacts means the boiler is firing, this period will only be in short bursts, battery charging resuming when the contacts open. Very clever......


Its a useful but very simple electronic thermostat, with internet access, but it hardly qualifies as smart, and if it is been offered 'free', it's only because the suppliers are availing of the very substantial grant which is available, and which they must be collecting as they are taking your MPRN. The problem I have with this is that it is a single thermostat substitution, I don't see how it qualifies for the zoning requirements of the grant, it only really (barely) meets the automation part. Its been a while since I studied the grant requirements, but I was under the impression that the upgrade required control of at least two zones, one of which could be HW.
If you use up your MPRN you can't subsequently get a real smart heating upgrade, as your grant money is gone. So if you decide you'd like a smart and zoned system, say the Drayton Kit3 3 zone two stat+hw system which retails less than the Hub controller, then you wont be able to defray the slighty higher installation costs and possibibly some plumbing costs as your grant dough is gone.
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12-06-2019, 10:06   #65
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Its not part of the regular seai home owner grants for improving efficiency. Otherwise, as you say single zones wouldn't qualify. Also the homeowner would have to be part of the application to seai, even if the company were claiming it on their side... The company have said this themselves.

But....They are being funded by seai according to what people have said in prev posts. Obviously somebody has to be paying for it... It sounds very much like they are carrying out research/gathreing data on single zone systems (or as mentioned, homes with 2 zones operating as one).
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12-06-2019, 10:15   #66
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if it is been offered 'free', it's only because the suppliers are availing of the very substantial grant which is available, and which they must be collecting as they are taking your MPRN.
Have you any reference for this?
There was no mention of anything like that when they were installing it and I can see nothing in the terms and conditions that would indicate that.
Will try upload copy of the t&c I signed on installation later.

Edit: hadn't seen jmBuildExt reply before posting this
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12-06-2019, 11:47   #67
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I'd like to be wrong about this. The 'free' stats offered by the power utilities also are part of some deal with SEAI. I presumed it used up your grant, but I don't know if subscribers have to fill in an official seal grant form or if the electricity providers cover all that on their behalf. With non grant aided quotes for say a NEST install running to a grand, there must be some grant money added to this. The utilities wouldn't pony out that kind of money just to get your business for a year or two.
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12-06-2019, 12:16   #68
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Unfortunately the link to the PDF on the SEAI site is broken!

AFAIR, the last time I looked at it, the grant was up to €700, but it included different levels. It included different levels of grant for different system types and €700 being for a full multizone system, but lower amounts for a simple single zone "smart" system like this.

Makes sense, as not every home needs multizone, (e.g. an apartment) and not every home needs hot water control (e.g. combi boilers separately control hot water, electric immersion, solar water, etc).

That is how the Energia offer a free Netatmo thermostat, despite being single zoned and no hotwater control:
https://www.energia.ie/cosy-homes/netatmo-offers

Quote:
Your system must be a single zone system that is capable of being upgraded to a system that qualifies as Entry Level Heating Controls with Remote Access according to SEAI’s Code of Practice and Standards and Specifications Guidelines.
I'd assume this Hub Controller falls under the same grant. It is clear from the Hub website that they are using the same grant since they ask these questions:
Was your house built before 2007?
Have you ever received a free smart thermostat from your energy provider?

The above questions being requirements for the SEAI heating controls grant.
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12-06-2019, 12:36   #69
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Originally Posted by bk View Post
Unfortunately the link to the PDF on the SEAI site is broken!

AFAIR, the last time I looked at it, the grant was up to €700, but it included different levels. It included different levels of grant for different system types and €700 being for a full multizone system, but lower amounts for a simple single zone "smart" system like this.

Makes sense, as not every home needs multizone, (e.g. an apartment) and not every home needs hot water control (e.g. combi boilers separately control hot water, electric immersion, solar water, etc).

That is how the Energia offer a free Netatmo thermostat, despite being single zoned and no hotwater control:
https://www.energia.ie/cosy-homes/netatmo-offers



I'd assume this Hub Controller falls under the same grant. It is clear from the Hub website that they are using the same grant since they ask these questions:
Was your house built before 2007?
Have you ever received a free smart thermostat from your energy provider?

The above questions being requirements for the SEAI heating controls grant.
Bottom line, it's not worth the grant money or the €299 being asked for it here say,

https://www.build4less.ie/the-hub-controller.html
Drayton Wiser Kit 1 stat is half the price and full of smart features.
Tado v3 is €199, fully smart featured.Tado is the same simple install, 2 wires swap. Get an installer to pop it in and sign the grant form, should work out free, but goid luck with that.
Seai link btw is missing the .pdf at the end iirc, so copy and paste it, then add the missing bit before hitting return.

Last edited by deezell; 12-06-2019 at 17:24.
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12-06-2019, 17:03   #70
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It is a pity that Drayton, Tado, etc. don't take advantage of the grant like the Hub Controller have.

Nest, Netatmo and Hive are all indirectly available for free or at reduced cost via various Gas companies.
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12-06-2019, 17:21   #71
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I'd like to be wrong about this. The 'free' stats offered by the power utilities also are part of some deal with SEAI. I presumed it used up your grant, but I don't know if subscribers have to fill in an official seal grant form or if the electricity providers cover all that on their behalf. With non grant aided quotes for say a NEST install running to a grand, there must be some grant money added to this. The utilities wouldn't pony out that kind of money just to get your business for a year or two.
They claim your savings as mandated by Europe.
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topic...ative-measures

https://www.seai.ie/energy-in-business/energy-efficiency-obligation-scheme/
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13-08-2019, 17:28   #72
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HUB Controller

I have the HUB Controller and i have to say its been pretty amazing so far, i have noticed the savings so far.. I was talking to one of the guys in their office and they explained to me that their controller saves you money while you use your heating, so its different to any other smart thermostat thats out there, other smart thermostat companies cant claim the same grant because they don't reduce your energy waste like this one does. Its not the 700 euro grant that they claim either, the grant they claim only covers the cost of their hub and install price which is 380 euro
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13-08-2019, 18:35   #73
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I have the HUB Controller and i have to say its been pretty amazing so far, i have noticed the savings so far.. I was talking to one of the guys in their office and they explained to me that their controller saves you money while you use your heating, so its different to any other smart thermostat thats out there, other smart thermostat companies cant claim the same grant because they don't reduce your energy waste like this one does. Its not the 700 euro grant that they claim either, the grant they claim only covers the cost of their hub and install price which is 380 euro
Sounds like a load of sales talk. How is it different?

Tell me more about this magician device that saves you money while heating.

How long have you had it installed ? It’s summer, that’s what has saved you money.
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13-08-2019, 19:11   #74
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"other smart thermostat companies cant claim the same grant because they don't reduce your energy waste like this one does"
What a load of bull. Any thermostat that stops you heating the house to excessive temperatures, heating it when not required or heating it when you're not there will reduce your costs. There's no magic to it. Hub controller is one of the pooper examples of smart control. It's limited feature set has been well discussed. A statement like " it saves you money while you use your heating" is exactly the type of jingo garbage I'd expect to hear a salesman peddle to a gullible customer. It's like saying " you're losing weight while eating our diet chocolate bars". You save money by NOT heating. Turn the heat off altogether and you'll see. Now, try and turn it on only as long and as low as you can bear. That's your saving. Hub does it up to a point. The other smart stats do it so much better. Sorry to be so blunt about this, but enthusiasm is not a good basis to measure efficiency. You have a simple product which works for you. If you got it free, it's because we all paid taxes which are used to fund abstract statistical projections of savings by devices, which is then used by energy companies to claim back large sums of said taxes to cover the install cost. No one is measuring yours or any smart stat owners consumption. Many use more than they did, but have vastly more comfortable homes around the clock, instead of the bake freeze cycle of timer only control. If you have a foot in ice and a foot in the fire statistically you're comfortable, but it's not true. Burn less fuel, save money. That's the only fact thats real, not some fantasy superpower of an electronic switch.
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14-08-2019, 10:21   #75
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I dont know exactly how it works, it seems like you are all being personally offended by a thermostat which is rather sad! Don't make your own assumptions, find out yourselves, i have the product over 6 months and notice my oil is lasting longer, nothing to do with summer as the it hasnt been hot since february...! Its something to do with momentum in the system and the hub turns it on and off at times.. i am not sure though, just call them yourselves and im sure theyll explain it to you, there might be more advanced systems because you can control different zones, but this isnt for people with zones its for people who's heating and water run together, getting this device for free and its saving me around 30%(according to their website) - whats not to like?
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