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Staff issues

24

Comments

  • #32
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    I do my best to weed out people who will be taking the piss in the interview process. I ask questions like 'if we needed you to, could you do 14 hours a day 7 days in a row"? The different reactions, from horror to complete willingness can tell a lot. Its not that you would have them working those hours, but it can tell a lot about a persons motivation and what kind of individual they are by their response.
    That HR bill at 200 quid a month seems very generous to be honest. Seems like they are doing you a favor by spreading it out over time. Just make sure its proper contracts they are giving you specific to your industry and business type to suit your needs as an employer and not just protocols and internal policy documents that will get lost on a harddrive.

    You do know those hours would be illegal anyway? So it's a hypothetical question.


  • #33
    mrawkward
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    dbran wrote: »
    Hi

    It sounds like you do have some HR issues that you need to resolve and it is better that you have identified them now rather then wait until they come to a head later. I think "mismanaged" would be too harsh a word. .

    Breaking basic employment law and effectively handing them a loaded gun to use against you, I would call that mismanagement or grossly inept or just plain stupid. Doubt you would hold the same for late VAT/PAYE/Annual returns.


  • #34
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    And you'd show your hand straight away as being part of the 'entitled' clocking watching dregs that become eventually become cancers on business' trying to create an environment where people are dedicated more to making the business a success, then getting home to watch Neighbours at 17.35. Asking that question as I said is the perfect way to weed out people like you.

    Or.... you'd get someone in for interview who would very correctly tell you that the law states that employees must have an 11 hour rest period per 24 hours, and refuse to interview and further, because you have essentially told them employment law doesn't apply to you.


    Good employees aren't people who accept breaches in the law.


  • #35
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Madeleine Plain Shortchange


    pilly wrote: »
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    I do my best to weed out people who will be taking the piss in the interview process. I ask questions like 'if we needed you to, could you do 14 hours a day 7 days in a row"? The different reactions, from horror to complete willingness can tell a lot. Its not that you would have them working those hours, but it can tell a lot about a persons motivation and what kind of individual they are by their response.
    That HR bill at 200 quid a month seems very generous to be honest. Seems like they are doing you a favor by spreading it out over time. Just make sure its proper contracts they are giving you specific to your industry and business type to suit your needs as an employer and not just protocols and internal policy documents that will get lost on a harddrive.

    You do know those hours would be illegal anyway? So it's a hypothetical question.
    Thought I made it fairly clear in the first post.


  • #36
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    Thought I made it fairly clear in the first post.

    You did. Something that's still being overlooked by the perpetually outraged.


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  • #37
    mrawkward
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    It is a great question!! aka "a flusher"..... and it even works on here!


  • #38
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Madeleine Plain Shortchange


    Penny Tration wrote: »
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    And you'd show your hand straight away as being part of the 'entitled' clocking watching dregs that become eventually become cancers on business' trying to create an environment where people are dedicated more to making the business a success, then getting home to watch Neighbours at 17.35. Asking that question as I said is the perfect way to weed out people like you.

    Or.... you'd get someone in for interview who would very correctly tell you that the law states that employees must have an 11 hour rest period per 24 hours, and refuse to interview and further, because you have essentially told them employment law doesn't apply to you.


    Good employees aren't people who accept breaches in the law.
    Again thats a person I wouldn't want to hire. Thats the kind of person who's going to cause you trouble in the future or doesn't create the right environment for the kind of company I try to run.
    I have interviewed more people that I can remember. I have turned away people far more qualified with more experience because I dont like their mentality in an interview. What I look for are enthusiastic people, motivated, willing to push themselves, ambitious. Its a hypothetical question I'm asking to discover the persons mentality.
    The kind of people who respond well to that kind of question create a positive culture in the company because of their enthusiasm and positive attitude almost every time in my experience. Its spreads fast, just like the opposite does if you have a few people inside who are sticklers for regulations.


  • #39
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    Again thats a person I wouldn't want to hire. Thats the kind of person who's going to cause you trouble in the future or doesn't create the right environment for the kind of company I try to run.
    I have interviewed more people that I can remember. I have turned away people far more qualified with more experience because I dont like their mentality in an interview. What I look for are enthusiastic people, motivated, willing to push themselves, ambitious. Its a hypothetical question I'm asking to discover the persons mentality.
    The kind of people who respond well to that kind of question create a positive culture in the company because of their enthusiasm and positive attitude almost every time in my experience. Its spreads fast, just like the opposite does if you have a few people inside who are sticklers for regulations.

    The kind of people who respond well to that question are either boring individuals who have no life outside work, liars or people who are desperate and will do anything for a job. Sounds like good staff alright :rolleyes:

    Personally Id be telling you that you have a time management problem if you run into situations that require people to work those hours, but I would be telling you that as I left because the question itself would tell me everything I needed to know about your company.


  • #40
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Madeleine Plain Shortchange


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    Again thats a person I wouldn't want to hire. Thats the kind of person who's going to cause you trouble in the future or doesn't create the right environment for the kind of company I try to run.
    I have interviewed more people that I can remember. I have turned away people far more qualified with more experience because I dont like their mentality in an interview. What I look for are enthusiastic people, motivated, willing to push themselves, ambitious. Its a hypothetical question I'm asking to discover the persons mentality.
    The kind of people who respond well to that kind of question create a positive culture in the company because of their enthusiasm and positive attitude almost every time in my experience. Its spreads fast, just like the opposite does if you have a few people inside who are sticklers for regulations.

    The kind of people who respond well to that question are either boring individuals who have no life outside work, liars or people who are desperate and will do anything for a job. Sounds like good staff alright :rolleyes:

    Personally Id be telling you that you have a time management problem if you run into situations that require people to work those hours, but I would be telling you that as I left because the question itself would tell me everything I needed to know about your company.
    I will refrain from challenging this clearly wise and experienced opinion!


  • #41
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    intheclouds wrote: »
    The kind of people who respond well to that question are either boring individuals who have no life outside work, liars or people who are desperate and will do anything for a job. Sounds like good staff alright :rolleyes:

    Personally Id be telling you that you have a time management problem if you run into situations that require people to work those hours, but I would be telling you that as I left because the question itself would tell me everything I needed to know about your company.

    You should pursue that career change, current one is making you overly cynical which probably isn't doing you many favours.


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  • #42
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    I ask questions like 'if we needed you to, could you do 14 hours a day 7 days in a row"? The different reactions, from horror to complete willingness can tell a lot.

    Just to be clear, is that if they said "Im all for it" they are a hard worker and if they are shocked they are not a hard worker?

    I see where you are coming from but I think its a poor question to be honest. By asking a question like this you gain zero information about how the potential employee actually operates as its effectively a yes/no question and doesn't give any insight into their thought process or their past experience.

    Phrasing it like "Describe a point in your working life where you had to deal with spikes in demand" and continuing with a few follow up questions would be far more useful - you get them talking about actual work scenarios, and you can use the follow up questions to suss out if they are waffling or not


  • #43
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Graham wrote: »
    You should pursue that career change, current one is making you overly cynical which probably isn't doing you many favours.

    Surely you are not referencing posts of mine in other threads and then becoming personal with me on the back of that?


  • #44
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Madeleine Plain Shortchange


    StupidLikeAFox wrote: »
    Madeleine Plain Shortchange wrote: »
    I ask questions like 'if we needed you to, could you do 14 hours a day 7 days in a row"? The different reactions, from horror to complete willingness can tell a lot.

    Just to be clear, is that if they said "Im all for it" they are a hard worker and if they are shocked they are not a hard worker?

    I see where you are coming from but I think its a poor question to be honest. By asking a question like this you gain zero information about how the potential employee actually operates as its effectively a yes/no question and doesn't give any insight into their thought process or their past experience.

    Phrasing it like "Describe a point in your working life where you had to deal with spikes in demand" and continuing with a few follow up questions would be far more useful - you get them talking about actual work scenarios, and you can use the follow up questions to suss out if they are waffling or not
    I'm looking for a response in the lines of 'I'm ready and willing and able to do what it takes to be successful in this position/ make the company a success' Not a yes or no. The whole thing is to discover the persons mentality as an individual. I believe a lot can be trained once the mentality is right in the first place and the attitude is good.

    But we are not talking about a HR department here in a large corporate. I employ less then 60 people across my businesses, so its more important for me to have more dynamic personalities that help create a positive culture. And much less so to have polished corporate people. Its also really important to me that i dont end up in battles with employees because I dont like their attitude and they just want their paycheck at the end of the week. Can't afford to many of those - as the OP is finding out it can put huge pressure on your business and emotionally be very frustrating. In a big faceless corporate these kinds of problems dont have as much of an impact at all.


  • #45
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    We tend to-both my partner and I. We put everything we have into our business and try to lead by example. We don't have staff do anything we dont do ourselves. We have high expectations-probably because when we were employees we didn't take sick leave. Now we are employers we don't take any leave-at all!


  • #46
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    It's a restaurant. Really this issue has only arisen in the last 2 months. I have spoken with the pregnant lady. She has had other pregnancy related sick leave in August . She took a/l end of September and then went into sick leave. I don't see he returning for a few months as she is fairly ill with her pregnancy. I have told her-as she cannot commit to a return to work-that I will have to commence her maternity cover now. If she returns I can put her in another,lighter post with the same pay,conditions and hours. I am trying to source that cover now.
    All my staff are relatively new-under 6 months. I have made them all aware of the impact of sick leave-it's detrimental to them as a team as they have to work harder to cover staff that are out. I really need to implement contracts and policies for all of them-I'm in the middle of doing that-this all just came while I was trying to complete policies and procedures. I have worked in the hse and am following some of their employee guidelines


  • #47
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    I understand people looking in at the situation can be harsh-just because they dont know what my reality is! That's fair enough. Previous posters are right-I have to keep an eye on cash flow as I'm a new business-I did push contracts out-I didn't ignore them as is insinuated . I'm not a dictator and if someone needs time off they get it-I dont want staff that are visibly unwell at work nor do I want contamination in the workplace. I am trying to keep on top of everything but covering absences eats my time . I have hired temporary staff but they don't last. It's a busy restaurant and it's hard to retain staff.


  • #48
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Clara B wrote: »
    We tend to-both my partner and I. We put everything we have into our business and try to lead by example. We don't have staff do anything we dont do ourselves. We have high expectations-probably because when we were employees we didn't take sick leave. Now we are employers we don't take any leave-at all!

    That's an extremely unhealthy way to operate, you'll end up burnt out tbh


  • #49
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Clara B wrote: »
    I have hired temporary staff but they don't last. It's a busy restaurant and it's hard to retain staff

    Do you find out why they don't last? There may be an underlying issue here which staff are reluctant to tell you about


  • #50
    Bandara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭Bandara


    We have several restaurants within the family.

    Staff retention is about one in ten, we keep one out of each ten. The rest we let go. The industry is notoriously bad for getting quality staff as the vast majority have zero qualifications and receive zero training.

    You need to clear the decks and make an example and start again. If you need 10 staff take on 15 and weed out the messers.

    We take on double staff we require and within a few weeks the issues right themselves.


  • #51
    Bandara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭Bandara


    Re your cost to provide contracts

    I may know of a company that will do all that for you for approx €600 per year. They are essentially an outsourced HR company.

    I have used them for two of my own companies for the last three years and found them excellent. I have zero affiliation with them.

    I'll check if they do restaurant industry also and pm you their details


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  • #52
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    mrawkward wrote: »
    Sorry to be so blunt but this appears to be a mismanagement issue. You have employees with no proper contract of employment? If I am correct, you are breaking the law http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contract_of_employment.html

    This is where you state the terms of engagement, disciplinary procedures etc etc. Handbooks are just dust gathering waffle. Employees just want to know, and are entitled to know the rules in place. Get your house in order first.



    I dont think I am mismanaging- I am in the process of contracts-hence the query in previous post- and i think a handbook is helpful. I have always had one in previous jobs. I am trying to operate a small business on diminished staff,with obligations to another business,a husband,2 children and a current pregnancy. I dont have an assistant-a pa-someone to share the work load with,my partner already has his hands full.I am doing my very best and at all times I am aware of my obligations to my staff-without them I have nothing.


  • #53
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    dbran wrote: »
    Hi

    It sounds like you do have some HR issues that you need to resolve and it is better that you have identified them now rather then wait until they come to a head later. I think "mismanaged" would be too harsh a word. But you need to learn to run your staff otherwise they will run you.

    You also need to consider whether imposing a new set of policies on staff in a unilateral fashion could backfire. Especially if it changes a policy that was already in place. An employee could easily fashion a case for constructive dismissal or bullying against you and may try look for a payout. If there was no procedures or they were not properly followed you will be in trouble. Either way you need to know what course of action is going to work and what is simply going to lead you into trouble and incur more cost.

    It is for that reason I think you do need some sort of proper professional advise on how to proceed that minimises this risk. I do not think 1600 is expensive considering the potential consequences. There are plenty of reputable HR agencies you just need to google them. There is also some employer organisations which offer this type of help and advice as part of their membership. If you consider the level of the awards handed down by the labour court this is a small price to pay.

    Dbran

    i do agree with you. I want to find a solution that will work for both my employees and myself. The last place I would want to be is in the wrc with a costly complaint against me.


  • #54
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    Stheno wrote: »
    That's an extremely unhealthy way to operate, you'll end up burnt out tbh

    Of course we will-but what are the alternatives. We trail new staff and either they dont turn up after a few days or they turn out to not be what we had expected.


  • #55
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    Bandara wrote: »
    We have several restaurants within the family.

    Staff retention is about one in ten, we keep one out of each ten. The rest we let go. The industry is notoriously bad for getting quality staff as the vast majority have zero qualifications and receive zero training.

    You need to clear the decks and make an example and start again. If you need 10 staff take on 15 and weed out the messers.

    We take on double staff we require and within a few weeks the issues right themselves.


    We did this when we opened-we needed 10-took on 15 and weeded out those who felt the work was beneath them. I think people who are not in the catering industry dont understand how difficult it is to firstly get good staff and then retain said staff.
    I pay above minimum wage as I dont think its enough to live on,theres no weekend or public holiday work,i offer incentives to staff with bonuses and barring one occasion they get any time they need off. Ive had staff with sick parents and I have given them paid weeks off to look after their family. I have fallen behind on implementing contracts and policies so \i have to suffer the consequences of that. Better it be sick leave that legal action. This is brought what is necessary into focus and I will implement-with staff input-policies/procedures and contracts asap.
    There is very little I can do about the current situation except put a plan in place to tackle any future issues that may arise


  • #56
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Clara B wrote: »
    We tend to-both my partner and I. We put everything we have into our business and try to lead by example. We don't have staff do anything we dont do ourselves. We have high expectations-probably because when we were employees we didn't take sick leave. Now we are employers we don't take any leave-at all!

    You're going to end up sick and burnt out doing this.

    Re you not taking sick leave. That's great. But it's your choice. Not everyone is lucky enough to have perfect health and it's completely unrealistic to think that people won't take sick leave.

    It's also not good to be working to such tight staffing that someone off sick for a few days makes such a huge impact.

    You might not ask staff to do things you don't do yourself but they don't benefit from the business the way you do. It's not their company. It's just a job.

    But fundamentally, people get sick. It happens. People aren't robots.


  • #57
    Clara B
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Clara B


    intheclouds wrote: »
    You're going to end up sick and burnt out doing this.

    Re you not taking sick leave. That's great. But it's your choice. Not everyone is lucky enough to have perfect health and it's completely unrealistic to think that people won't take sick leave.

    It's also not good to be working to such tight staffing that someone off sick for a few days makes such a huge impact.

    You might not ask staff to do things you don't do yourself but they don't benefit from the business the way you do. It's not their company. It's just a job.

    But fundamentally, people get sick. It happens. People aren't robots.

    It's not that my health is so good I/we don't need to take time off-I don't because I don't want to add to someone else's work load. I'm not in a position in my business where I can have excess staff on hand just in case someone's out sick or on a/l-I simply couldn't fund that and offer my current staff the same conditions of employment. If I could do that this situation would be totally avoidable.
    As for benefits-we/I put every penny into his venture. It will take a few years to recoup my investment and I do not get paid-nor does my partner. We reinvest into new equipment, premises,furniture and rates/revenue/Esb/gas/insurance/accountant/solicitor/staff/food costs/wastage costs etc etc. I don't mind any of that-being the boss is my choice but I would love some of the posters here to open a restaurant and see how they cope with staff retention and turn over and how they would go about having surplus staff.


  • #58
    mrawkward
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    Clara B wrote: »
    I dont think I am mismanaging- I am in the process of contracts-hence the query in previous post- and i think a handbook is helpful. I have always had one in previous jobs. I am trying to operate a small business on diminished staff,with obligations to another business,a husband,2 children and a current pregnancy. I dont have an assistant-a pa-someone to share the work load with,my partner already has his hands full.I am doing my very best and at all times I am aware of my obligations to my staff-without them I have nothing.
    uu


    Twaddle my dear, you are giving excuses not valid reasons for not running your business basic HR function properly/legally. none of your staff give a flying fcuk that you are pregnant or that you and your partner are trying to run two businesses. Get your act together fast before you go missing on very important family duty. All the supportive/understand your position bull****... Is just that. Man up woman or get yer man to do it... It matters not a jot, as long as it is done.


  • #59
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Clara B wrote: »
    It's not that my health is so good I/we don't need to take time off-I don't because I don't want to add to someone else's work load. I'm not in a position in my business where I can have excess staff on hand just in case someone's out sick or on a/l-I simply couldn't fund that and offer my current staff the same conditions of employment. If I could do that this situation would be totally avoidable.
    As for benefits-we/I put every penny into his venture. It will take a few years to recoup my investment and I do not get paid-nor does my partner. We reinvest into new equipment, premises,furniture and rates/revenue/Esb/gas/insurance/accountant/solicitor/staff/food costs/wastage costs etc etc. I don't mind any of that-being the boss is my choice but I would love some of the posters here to open a restaurant and see how they cope with staff retention and turn over and how they would go about having surplus staff.

    How long is the business open?


  • #60
    mrawkward
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    And as for lead by example .... They will let you on ahead... More nonsense! Manage is the key function, your job.


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  • #61
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Clara B wrote: »
    It's not that my health is so good I/we don't need to take time off-I don't because I don't want to add to someone else's work load. I'm not in a position in my business where I can have excess staff on hand just in case someone's out sick or on a/l-I simply couldn't fund that and offer my current staff the same conditions of employment. If I could do that this situation would be totally avoidable.
    As for benefits-we/I put every penny into his venture. It will take a few years to recoup my investment and I do not get paid-nor does my partner. We reinvest into new equipment, premises,furniture and rates/revenue/Esb/gas/insurance/accountant/solicitor/staff/food costs/wastage costs etc etc. I don't mind any of that-being the boss is my choice but I would love some of the posters here to open a restaurant and see how they cope with staff retention and turn over and how they would go about having surplus staff.

    So it is a choice then. There are always people who insist on working through illness like Spartans. Don't understand it myself, my health is far more important (not that I'm sick much but if I've got something I'll take the time rather than make myself sicker or spread it about).

    Given what you describe above perhaps your model is wrong and in these early years you need to pay minimum wage only and be able to cover sick and annual leave? Worry about staff retention later when you're not stretched so tight?

    There's no real excuse for not having basic stuff like contracts sorted.


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