Zero grazing

Grueller · 27-09-2020 2:03pm #1

This is probably going to be a polarisinig thread.

The reason I am asking about it is that I have a fragmented farm. As some of ye will know I am a new entrant to dairying. I am also running 60 sucklers alongside the dairy operation.
My farm can graze about 60 cows around the parlour.
I have 18 acres 1.5 km away that I just cannot walk cows to.
I have 80 acres 7 miles away. I use this for silage and sucklers.
At the moment I have a batch of weanling heifers feeding, a batch of weanling bulls feeding,a batch of dry Autumn calving sucklers, a batch of Autmn calving sucklers that have actually calved, and a batch of bulling heifers. Among the sucklers I have some pedigree cows so I also have a batch of pedigree bulls 1.5 years old that will be sold next spring.
Add the dairy cows and that is 7 batches of cattle. Six of which make no, or nearly no money.

The 18 acres up the road is in really good shape. Soil indices are excellent, reseeded 6 years ago.
The outfarm is in need of reseeding. It was done 10 years ago but at the time indices were very poor and I ended up with a very open award and weeds got a hold. By no means is it bad, but not what I would like.

I would love to tidy up the batches of cattle by simply getting rid of sucklers and keeping more dairy cows. I would plan on transitioning into this by exiting sucklers and rearing my own dairy cross calves for a couple of years while building numbers. I would graze these on the 80 acre out farm.
I would propose buying a zero grazer to utilise the 18 acres close by allowing me to go to 85 cows comfortably.
In time I would plan on going to 100 cows by reseeding the out farm and using some of this for zero grazing as. I realise that 7 miles is a fair spin with a zero grazer but it would only need to be done intermittently as grazed grass and the closer out block would provide 85% of my grass requirement.
This would reduce my batches of stock to dairy cows, replacement heifers and whatever small amount of beef stock I decide to carry to utilise the remainder of the outfarm. The time saved by herding 4 extra batches, no calving of sucklers and stock just being generally easier to handle would, in my opinion, free up the time to do the zero grazing.
I would propose taking a load every second day and allowing cows access to it for a couple of hours after morning milking and before evening milking. A load does 80 cows for a day so should buffer at this rate for two days.
I have housing for sucklers that can convert to hold the increase to 100 cows at low cost.
Questions I have,
Is anyone on here zero grazing?
What are the real costs involved? I am finding varying figures online.
Feel free to shoot my plan down.

degetme · 27-09-2020 2:55pm

Grueller wrote: »

This is probably going to be a polarisinig thread.

The reason I am asking about it is that I have a fragmented farm. As some of ye will know I am a new entrant to dairying. I am also running 60 sucklers alongside the dairy operation.
My farm can graze about 60 cows around the parlour.
I have 18 acres 1.5 km away that I just cannot walk cows to.
I have 80 acres 7 miles away. I use this for silage and sucklers.
At the moment I have a batch of weanling heifers feeding, a batch of weanling bulls feeding,a batch of dry Autumn calving sucklers, a batch of Autmn calving sucklers that have actually calved, and a batch of bulling heifers. Among the sucklers I have some pedigree cows so I also have a batch of pedigree bulls 1.5 years old that will be sold next spring.
Add the dairy cows and that is 7 batches of cattle. Six of which make no, or nearly no money.

The 18 acres up the road is in really good shape. Soil indices are excellent, reseeded 6 years ago.
The outfarm is in need of reseeding. It was done 10 years ago but at the time indices were very poor and I ended up with a very open award and weeds got a hold. By no means is it bad, but not what I would like.

I would love to tidy up the batches of cattle by simply getting rid of sucklers and keeping more dairy cows. I would plan on transitioning into this by exiting sucklers and rearing my own dairy cross calves for a couple of years while building numbers. I would graze these on the 80 acre out farm.
I would propose buying a zero grazer to utilise the 18 acres close by allowing me to go to 85 cows comfortably.
In time I would plan on going to 100 cows by reseeding the out farm and using some of this for zero grazing as. I realise that 7 miles is a fair spin with a zero grazer but it would only need to be done intermittently as grazed grass and the closer out block would provide 85% of my grass requirement.
This would reduce my batches of stock to dairy cows, replacement heifers and whatever small amount of beef stock I decide to carry to utilise the remainder of the outfarm. The time saved by herding 4 extra batches, no calving of sucklers and stock just being generally easier to handle would, in my opinion, free up the time to do the zero grazing.
I would propose taking a load every second day and allowing cows access to it for a couple of hours after morning milking and before evening milking. A load does 80 cows for a day so should buffer at this rate for two days.
I have housing for sucklers that can convert to hold the increase to 100 cows at low cost.
Questions I have,
Is anyone on here zero grazing?
What are the real costs involved? I am finding varying figures online.
Feel free to shoot my plan down.

I would be very wary of what dogs or foxes cross your land you plan on zero grazing. I got a neospora outbreak because of zero grazing after grass that had a dairy farm across the road and there dogs often in my field that was zero grazed and foxes in a nearby plantation. I blood tested the cows for neospora. All the cows I had dried off and got no access to zero grazing grass were negative and the 1s who got the zero grazing grass were mostly positive. A very expensive lesson. I wouldn't go near zero grazing again

Timmaay · 27-09-2020 3:51pm

You should also look at the options of leafy bales, making say 4 cuts across the summer, the advantage of this over zg would be you only have to harvest once every 6wks, instead of every 2nd day with the zg, and lower capital spend (you get the contractor to bale etc), also leafy bales let's you match up supply with demand better, you cut the leafy bales when the growth is good and feed back when it drops off (especially useful if you suffer from summer droughts). 7 miles is a fair spin though and always going to be an issue, you do know there is a reasonable tax relief if you sell up land and buy some that is closer to your home block, something to keep in mind longterm.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 3:57pm

Timmaay wrote: »

You should also look at the options of leafy bales, making say 4 cuts across the summer, the advantage of this over zg would be you only have to harvest once every 6wks, instead of every 2nd day with the zg, and lower capital spend (you get the contractor to bale etc), also leafy bales let's you match up supply with demand better, you cut the leafy bales when the growth is good and feed back when it drops off (especially useful if you suffer from summer droughts). 7 miles is a fair spin though and always going to be an issue, you do know there is a reasonable tax relief if you sell up land and buy some that is closer to your home block, something to keep in mind longterm.

I have the tax relief in mind Timmay, just getting land close to home is near impossible.
What is the cost differential between zero grazing and leafy bales do you know?

patsy_mccabe · 27-09-2020 4:42pm

Sorry to digress, but does Neospora get killed off in silage?

Mooooo · 27-09-2020 5:01pm

What way are you/ will you be stocked on the milking platform? If at 4/ ha you may get away at peak growth with little to no buffering but there will be a lot in the shoulders. Neighbours zerograze here and while i have no figures in autumn and spring they can be up and down the road a lot with grass and slurry, father and son job. It may be more time efficient to make quality silage during the summer and use the zerograzer then for the last rounds. Alternatively growing a crop of maize on a portion may also be an option. The key whatever way you go is to setup up the housing facilities with as much headspace as possible and perhaps silage pits with a narrow feed face if buffering ends up happening for an extended period or year round.
Agree on reducing the number of groups of stock, makes things much more manageable.
Also as an aside while it may be unlikely, if making any changes make sure you have machinery access to the shed if buffering is a possibility in April/May /June, nothing like cow's bulling inside to cause an animal to do the splits etc....

limerick farmer · 27-09-2020 5:15pm

would you not just hire someone to do it and not be forking out big money for a zero grazer there are a good few doing it now?

Grueller · 27-09-2020 6:52pm

Mooooo wrote: »

What way are you/ will you be stocked on the milking platform? If at 4/ ha you may get away at peak growth with little to no buffering but there will be a lot in the shoulders. Neighbours zerograze here and while i have no figures in autumn and spring they can be up and down the road a lot with grass and slurry, father and son job. It may be more time efficient to make quality silage during the summer and use the zerograzer then for the last rounds. Alternatively growing a crop of maize on a portion may also be an option. The key whatever way you go is to setup up the housing facilities with as much headspace as possible and perhaps silage pits with a narrow feed face if buffering ends up happening for an extended period or year round.
Agree on reducing the number of groups of stock, makes things much more manageable.
Also as an aside while it may be unlikely, if making any changes make sure you have machinery access to the shed if buffering is a possibility in April/May /June, nothing like cow's bulling inside to cause an animal to do the splits etc....

I am already going to be at 3.75/ha to carry the 60 at home so I am looking at options to use the out blocks.

The elephant in the room may just be build a second parlour where the out farm is. The cost of zero grazing would meet a lot of the repayments on a simple 12 unit parlour and tank in a collection yard for 60 more cows.

Tonynewholland · 27-09-2020 7:07pm

Grueller wrote: »

I am already going to be at 3.75/ha to carry the 60 at home so I am looking at options to use the out blocks.

The elephant in the room may just be build a second parlour where the out farm is. The cost of zero grazing would meet a lot of the repayments on a simple 12 unit parlour and tank in a collection yard for 60 more cows.

Would be milking the two herds yourself

Grueller · 27-09-2020 7:21pm

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Would be milking the two herds yourself

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 7:30pm

Grueller wrote: »

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

Milking in 2 yards yourself would be a disaster In my view could you not just push numbers at home and hire someone to zoro grass for you in the shoulders. Buying a machine to enable you to get a tax relief is never a good idea unless it's essential to your business.

degetme · 27-09-2020 7:34pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Milking in 2 yards yourself would be a disaster In my view could you not just push numbers at home and hire someone to zoro grass for you in the shoulders. Buying a machine to enable you to get a tax relief is never a good idea unless it's essential to your business.

On your last sentence why is buying machinery not a good idea for tax relief?

degetme · 27-09-2020 7:35pm

Grueller wrote: »

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

How about once a day in both places. 50 cows in each place

Tonynewholland · 27-09-2020 7:36pm

Grueller wrote: »

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

I’d prefer the maize or good silage idea myself. The thought of milking two herds everyday 7 days a week wouldn’t leave much time for anything else

Acquiescence · 27-09-2020 7:37pm

Is there somebody else living on the home farm?

Have you much recent investment?

Would you sell all three and consolidate elsewhere..

Mooooo · 27-09-2020 7:39pm

You've 40 acres roughly at home so, obv with the housing in situ there?. Tbh I'd be looking at setting the 80 acres up for the 100 cows, could calve and milk at home till conditions are suitable and transfer herd to 80 acres for main grazing season, and use home block and other out farm for silage/ young stock. Gradually develop 80 acres as need be to make it efficient then. Assuming it's not very heavy ground etc.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-09-2020 7:55pm

Grueller wrote: »

I am already going to be at 3.75/ha to carry the 60 at home so I am looking at options to use the out blocks.

The elephant in the room may just be build a second parlour where the out farm is. The cost of zero grazing would meet a lot of the repayments on a simple 12 unit parlour and tank in a collection yard for 60 more cows.

Build a second simple parlour in the out farm and calve all your cows at home and for the first rotation.

Move the cows over there for the peak grazing season and make most of your silage in the home block and bring back any excess as silage.

Bring the cows back home for the last rotation and hire a bit of zero grazing for that every day or second day.

That would simplify your system, I'd say, and allow extra cows to be carried to use the extra grass without the need for beef cattle. There will be a bit of hauling the late cows over but a haulier would carry the whole milking herd over in a morning.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:00pm

Acquiescence wrote: »

Is there somebody else living on the home farm?

Have you much recent investment?

Would you sell all three and consolidate elsewhere..

Yes

Yes

No. Due to parents living in the yard and I hope they will be for another 10+ years.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:01pm

degetme wrote: »

How about once a day in both places. 50 cows in each place

It's an option that I thought about too. I was looking at other options to avoid building the second parlour.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:05pm

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Build a second simple parlour in the out farm and calve all your cows at home and for the first rotation.

Move the cows over there for the peak grazing season and make most of your silage in the home block and bring back any excess as silage.

Bring the cows back home for the last rotation and hire a bit of zero grazing for that every day or second day.

That would simplify your system, I'd say, and allow extra cows to be carried to use the extra grass without the need for beef cattle. There will be a bit of hauling the late cows over but a haulier would carry the whole milking herd over in a morning.

I had thought of that system too. Moo beat you to it though!!!!!
Ya like I said, a second simple parlour might be the answer.
Simple parlour, crush, bore a new well and that would get it started.

All of this is 2-3 years down the road I should say. I have a few small investments to tidy up on the home farm first.

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 8:10pm

Because some people use it to buy machinery which will increase there cost base and really can't afford it . Always thought to spend money on things that make you money and don't rust and take the hit on the tax bill. Im not saying it's right

Farm365 · 27-09-2020 8:12pm

Robot on the 80 acres?

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:32pm

Farm365 wrote: »

Robot on the 80 acres?

Too costly I think.

Stan27 · 27-09-2020 8:34pm

My friend bought a zero grazer and is excellent for his farm.

Fragmented land, and had the yard at home in good condition.

Timmaay · 27-09-2020 8:36pm

Grueller wrote: »

I have the tax relief in mind Timmay, just getting land close to home is near impossible.
What is the cost differential between zero grazing and leafy bales do you know?

What I gather is very little cost difference when you factor in all machinery costs and actually pay yourself for your time on the tractor. I know one dairyfarmer who has robots (so he isn't tied up with milkings), he got a zg on demo during spring but ended up parking it up after like 3 days because he just didn't have the time to be going out and getting grass with it with all the other calving season jobs. My vote goes with building a large basic parlour on the outblock and milking your 100cows there if your gonna bother with all this, your killing 2 birds with one stone, not having to draw in grass to the home block and draw slurry back out.

degetme · 27-09-2020 8:37pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Because some people use it to buy machinery which will increase there cost base and really can't afford it . Always thought to spend money on things that make you money and don't rust and take the hit on the tax bill. Im not saying it's right

I'm at a stage now where I'm fairly well set up grass wise and buildings but my machinery is vintage and it's hard putting up with no comfort. Breaking your back in old macheriny and having a big tax bill isn't that appealing

cjpm · 27-09-2020 8:39pm

Bufords idea is good, but a fierce wet spell of weather would be a fcuking disaster though with no sheds on 80 acres.

What kind of quality is the 80 acres? If it was very good you could set 1/4 to Maize, 1/4 to Barley, 1/4 oats under sown with grass and the last 1/4 grass. Rotate each year. High quality bales from the grass and pit the rest. You'd have top quality feeding for buffer feeding to complement the grass at home..... Keep the replacement heifers and calves on the 18 acres.

GrasstoMilk · 27-09-2020 8:40pm

If its 2 or 3 years away you could keep an eye on donedeal for well priced good parlour and milk tank and have it ready and waiting for when you are

Put a 100x20 tank up for your collecting yard with barriers either side
If it gets wet or dry you can buffer feed the 100 cows all around the perimeter of the tank

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 8:50pm

degetme wrote: »

I'm at a stage now where I'm fairly well set up grass wise and buildings but my machinery is vintage and it's hard putting up with no comfort. Breaking your back in old macheriny and having a big tax bill isn't that appealing

I suppose it's alot different for people at different stages. I just always would be of the view that machinery like a zero grazer is 2 expensive a machine to have sitting around a yard doing noting for most of the year . If you really do the figures including your own, time depressiation etc

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:53pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

I suppose it's alot different for people at different stages. I just always would be of the view that machinery like a zero grazer is 2 expensive a machine to have sitting around a yard doing noting for most of the year . If you really do the figures including your own, time depressiation etc

Even if that machine might allow you to turn a low margin enterprise into a higher margin one? I mean maybe allowing land used for beef to be used for dairy instead?

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 9:00pm

Grueller wrote: »

Even if that machine might allow you to turn a low margin enterprise into a higher margin one? I mean maybe allowing land used for beef to be used for dairy instead?

To be honest the parlour in my view even tho I did say I would hate milking in 2 yards would be more appealing that zero grazing in for the majority of the year . Plenty of things to reduce tax bills that will give you a better return than machinery . You would nearly put in a basic parlour for the price of a zero grazer . Plenty of lads doing it on contract to make use of silage ground in the shoulders

Zero grazing

Comments