Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

White Clover · 27-07-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395276#Comment_119395276

No deal is better than a bad deal.

amacca · 27-07-2022 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395510#Comment_119395510

I agree ...**** them and their deals until they are made start talking the truth and give fair play......

Siamsa Sessions · 27-07-2022 6:20pm

I doubt Éamon Ryan will walk. He knows he'll never get into Govt again, and might never even be elected again. Plus he's always compromised Green principles/issues to keep his perks and mercs. There's nothing to suggest he'll show a back-bone this time.

But he's nothing if not unpredictable!

27-07-2022 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395240#Comment_119395240

Thats why I can’t understand all the excitement about getting cattle away sooner.

Like surely a fellow could get the plain bullocks away at 27 months at 300 kg and get the higher May price?

Fellows getting all excited about keeping cattle another 90 days to put another 30 kg on them when the price has been pulled and they have an additional 90 days eating done.

amacca · 27-07-2022 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395826#Comment_119395826

I don't buy them all at the exact birthdate that puts them at 27 months old in May.........

27-07-2022 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395840#Comment_119395840

That’s right, hang them up early summer, get the higher price and have a good bank of grass for silage and next years lads.

amacca · 27-07-2022 7:02pm

.... and if everyone does this what does that do to heads and prices?

Also 27 isn't 24/22

27-07-2022 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395868#Comment_119395868

Plain cattle take longer to finish in general. They can be hung up at 24 months but it may not suit cost sensitive producers.

Everyone at the minute has the attitude “leave them there till they are ready. If they go over age so be it”. So everyone won’t do it.

amacca · 27-07-2022 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395888#Comment_119395888

That's fantasy thinking imo

If the rules/incentives come in for 22/24 months then those that can't shift will be left behind and further penalised on the product they sell

Leading to more and more doing it or being forced out........

And all for what? A counterproductive age limit.......

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395826#Comment_119395826

I finish 60 ish cattle per year. I buy them as stores. They have all different weight gain capability. I cannot finish all bullocks at the same time. I sort the stock and try to vary finishing from mid June to late September/October

There would be a hell of a lot more of a difference than 30kgs DW in 90days. This year grass growth is a good bit slower than normal.

In 90 days you grade will go up 1-3 points, with a Friesian bullock this means from maybe P= to a O-/O=. Killing Friesians at 300kgs you will have a lot of FS be 3 some down into 2-/=. While AA and HE may not suffer on FS they will only grade O-/= in late spring without a lot of feeding.

This year the difference in price may be a bit more than normal. A 300kg P=2=Friesian at a 5.2/kg base would be priced in the 4.5-4.7/kg depending on the procurement managers mood will gross 1350-1400 euro

An O- Friesian hanging 360/kg at a base of 4.7 will be priced at 4.58/kg will make 1650.

The one thing I have learned over the years is to try to make sure you do not send unfit cattle to the factory. I hang about 60ish/year. If every body decides to kill all cattle in the 22-26 months range most cattle would be hung between November to May. This is the most expensive time to finish cattle.

27-07-2022 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396271#Comment_119396271

The price peaks in the early summer. You should aim to have cattle ready for it which is very doable.

You are looking at 27 to 28 months there. If you can’t get them to 300 kg dw by then we’ll then something is up.

Why don’t fellas buy a handy few organic cattle and draw the sweet premium and leave the cattle there for 10 years if they want to be keep stock for the hell of it?

27-07-2022 10:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396875#Comment_119396875

What age are you finishing your cattle and price per head would you set aside for a day at grass per head?

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396947#Comment_119396947

Anything from 27-32 months. Very few go over 30 months. Grass was costed at 100/head for a year. That was last year. This year's costs have go e up by 100 euro per head so grass will be about 120/head. For 60 cattle grazing costs are 7200 euro

However grass has to be converted in to money just like silage or fertlizer or cattle themselves after they are purchased.

27-07-2022 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396975#Comment_119396975

Does that include diesel for spreading, fencing, grass seed, slurry spreading etc.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397034#Comment_119397034

Slurry goes into silage costs. It's is grazing costs only. Fencing, fertilizer for grazing and spreading costs, topping costs etc

27-07-2022 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397048#Comment_119397048

To make money on plain cattle you actually need goodish land that you can nearly graze for 300 days.

The silage you do feed needs to be to quality.

The good thing about plain cattle is that if the price goes to pot at least you won’t be crippled with that initial outlay when you sell.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397092#Comment_119397092

Silage is high in DM and is 70+DMD. Cattle are housed for 120ish days. Used to try to keep it to 100 days but used to be really short of grass during April

Last year did not house until on average the 25 November. But normally all are housed by early November.

32 bullocks will eat a bale per day. Last year bales were costed at 27/bale. That is slight over 80c/day. Add minerals,bits, calcium and salt and it's about 88c/head/day or 105 euro in winter feeding costs.

amacca · 27-07-2022 11:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396941#Comment_119396941

Im well aware of that tbh, I do with some, I also do a bit of hedging for lots of reasons.

At what point did I say I can't get them to that dry weight by 27/28 months...not all will get there without more inputs at that age mind.

Having everything ready for off in one lot in one small window of time is risky and unwieldy for a lot of reasons especially with the spectre of age limits hanging over you (I can enlarge on that if you would like)......I like to pick and choose my time and place and be able to withdraw when it comes to marts too wothout a spurious age limit gun to my head.....keeps some honesty in the game and is a lever that I'm reluctant to give away or have taken....especially for the to date very dubious reasons imo.

Would it be as doable with lower age limits which is what I thought we were talking about?????

I'm not sure I'm getting the relevance of 10 years and have stock for the hell of it?????

Do you think I'm some sort of toad of toad Hall hobbyist or something

One would want their head examined if they were at my business for the hell of it...or the "sweet premiums"😂

28-07-2022 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397130#Comment_119397130

My point is the organic route would allow a person to maximise payments etc.

For me the main driver of the early finish is to get the higher early summer price. The reduction in costs / methane is a bonus.

If they want to achieve the earlier finish then they will need to improve beef breeding on the dairy side. It might not make sense for a dairy farmer as calving might be harder and take a bit out of their cows but at least they will have a more saleable calf. Maybe aubrac bulls could be an option.

Plain stock can be finished in the early summer but you are looking at more management and work etc

28-07-2022 12:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397127#Comment_119397127

The mineral supplementation really does help on plain stock

amacca · 28-07-2022 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397213#Comment_119397213

My point is the early finish won't necessarily reduce costs and seems unlikely to reduce methane at all.....given my experience to date in producing beef.

In fact I'd say it will increase costs in terms of inputs etc and have me chasing margin with more heads in a market with more volume in it with more methane produced....

If I'm correct wtf is the point of the lower age limits then....

Danzy · 28-07-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397222#Comment_119397222

If they put a under 24 month bonus on Cattle it will drive the price of whx and aax heifers and calves, it will hammer a lot of bullocks, especially big fine beasts and Friesian.

It will shore up winter finishing , it'll help drive a flow in to the factory all spring up to April, and to a lesser degree after that.

It'll help soften the June peak, not that isn't already happening.

It's a processor dream come true, they just stuck an environmental tag on it.

Get new discs on the topper. Buy that extra big ration silo, and order urea for next year in the morning and join us in the brave new carbon reduction farm system.

28-07-2022 12:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397259#Comment_119397259

If the animal is gone 90 days early that’s 90 days less methane

On a load of 15 bullocks you are talking the the equivalent of 3.75 years.

Take a look at the price charts in the farmers journal. There is a tendency for prices to be higher in the early summer.

28-07-2022 12:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397274#Comment_119397274

Perhaps fellas need to build a good relationship with a local dairy farmer.

Could be scope for a bit of contract rearing and provision of decent quality calves.

Danzy · 28-07-2022 12:35am

They seem obsessed with reducing methane, doesn't matter that it will be more energy intensive to get the animal away that much quicker, never mind expensive, never mind the extra fertilizer and the effect on plant diversity.

28-07-2022 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397297#Comment_119397297

They need to allow additional considerations around development of habitats, planting native trees, solar generation and use of nitrogen fixing legumes to reduce fertiliser usage

amacca · 28-07-2022 12:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397277#Comment_119397277

If the animal is gone 90 days earlier it gets replaced 90 days earlier???????

At best it's no reduction in heads at worst as I have lighter younger animals I carry more as my margin decreases.

You seem to think I'm not aware the price spikes briefly in early summer, I have acknowledged I am aware of this nugget.

As my grandfather used to say

It's a game of toodle em buck, the more you put down the less you pick up.

Danzy · 28-07-2022 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397277#Comment_119397277

The 24 month incentive will see a flatter price structure across the year as there are different flushes off cattle coming ready throughout the year.

About 100k calves were born the first week of April.7

70k dairy bred, 30k beef bred.

That falls to about 50k q few weeks later.

Whatever the further break down it adds up to a very busy time in the lairage. They not being busy was the only reason that they used have a may and June lift.

28-07-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397326#Comment_119397326

If I was keeping an animal for 30 months then he’s want to be well over 400 kg dw.

There is an additional advantage, in a year with a drought you aren’t carrying too much stock

amacca · 28-07-2022 12:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397336#Comment_119397336

Good for you👍

I'd be of the opinion you would be carrying more stock due to lower age limits ......can you explain how you would be carrying less stock if you had lower age limits...

It's an interesting claim, I've yet to see any clear explanation....

If I did have less will the factory be paying more for lesser numbers of these younger lighter animals or will I have to get them in spec with lots of lovely inputs further intensification???...

Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

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