BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Shedite27 · 03-08-2018 11:21am

BTW, one minor thing that struck me, was that in the naming of the busses A1, A2, A3 etc, we should skip the letter D to avoid the confusion that the "D4 bus" doesn't go near D4 (Dublin 4)

Stephen15 · 03-08-2018 11:22am

Shedite27 wrote: »

Anyone have the link to the survey? Seems a good task for a Friday afternoon

https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign/

Stephen15 · 03-08-2018 11:39am

Article about the first public consultation meeting today.

http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-connects-finglas-dublin-4161927-Aug2018/

Daith · 03-08-2018 12:04pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Article about the first public consultation meeting today.

http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-connects-finglas-dublin-4161927-Aug2018/

Hmm

"Sandra from Rivermeade said at today’s information session that her local 40B bus route was initially not on the proposed plan and that it was going to be cut.

After talking to NTA staff at the meeting, she said they were assured a new route would be established after people from the area voiced their alarm at the route cancellation."

Ok, probably depends on how it was written but was an alternate to the 40b route always planned or did it only come up after this meeting and concerns?

Qrt · 03-08-2018 12:11pm

Daith wrote: »

Hmm

"Sandra from Rivermeade said at today’s information session that her local 40B bus route was initially not on the proposed plan and that it was going to be cut.

After talking to NTA staff at the meeting, she said they were assured a new route would be established after people from the area voiced their alarm at the route cancellation."

Ok, probably depends on how it was written but was an alternate to the 40b route always planned or did it only come up after this meeting and concerns?

Maybe a LocalLink service. IMO it's insane for a city bus service to be servicing places like that. I'm fairly sure it's about 15 Semi-D's in the middle of a field.

Daith · 03-08-2018 12:14pm

Qrt wrote: »

Maybe a LocalLink service. IMO it's insane for a city bus service to be servicing places like that. I'm fairly sure it's about 15 Semi-D's in the middle of a field.

Haha yep. This seems a good sign for the public consultations hopefully.

cgcsb · 03-08-2018 12:25pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

BTW, one minor thing that struck me, was that in the naming of the busses A1, A2, A3 etc, we should skip the letter D to avoid the confusion that the "D4 bus" doesn't go near D4 (Dublin 4)

I had assumed the letters were at least partially to do with place names
F for Finglas
B for Blanch/Ballsbridge
A for Airport
C for Clondalkin
D for Drimnagh

with extra letters juse filling in the A-G structure.

It was probably that or go anti-clockwise

Dardania · 03-08-2018 12:28pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Shedite27 wrote: »

BTW, one minor thing that struck me, was that in the naming of the busses A1, A2, A3 etc, we should skip the letter D to avoid the confusion that the "D4 bus" doesn't go near D4 (Dublin 4)

I had assumed the letters were at least partially to do with place names
F for Finglas
B for Blanch/Ballsbridge
A for Airport
C for Clondalkin
D for Drimnagh

with extra letters juse filling in the A-G structure.

It was probably that or go anti-clockwise

it seems to go clockwise from the south east of the county?

cgcsb · 03-08-2018 12:32pm

Dardania wrote: »

it seems to go clockwise from the south east of the county?

I'm not sure that's the logic, certainly that'd make B, F and A a massive coincidence. I've seen in other cities they tend to have the A for airport/puerto/porto in latin countries and F for Flueghaven/etc. in Germanic countries.

Peregrine · 03-08-2018 12:54pm

Daith wrote: »

Hmm

"Sandra from Rivermeade said at today’s information session that her local 40B bus route was initially not on the proposed plan and that it was going to be cut.

After talking to NTA staff at the meeting, she said they were assured a new route would be established after people from the area voiced their alarm at the route cancellation."

Ok, probably depends on how it was written but was an alternate to the 40b route always planned or did it only come up after this meeting and concerns?

It was on the cards. Walker tweeted that he's not sure that they 'got St. Margaret's right' and asked people to engage with the consultation.

It was mental having double decker city buses serving these villages. A local route would be better. It's only like four buses a day. It shouldn't be that difficult to resolve. A local route to Charlestown could work out quicker for them sometimes when you factor in the Finglas West and Village detour of the current 40B.

Once they get to Charlestown, at peak (current 40 B is mostly peak), they can connect with an F3 every 10 minutes, an E2 every 8 mins or a 7 every 8 mins. Local bus + F3 could be quicker than or as quick as their current 40B, local bus + E2/7 would be as quick if not 5 mins slower. There's also the F1/2 (the current 40) but nobody in their right mind would get on that unless you live in Finglas South or West.

Anyway, with 16 buses from Charlestown every hour off peak and 22 buses every hour at peak times providing comparable and reasonable journey times and a further 4-6 slower buses if they're really stuck, I think they'll be okay with a local bus.

Stephen15 · 03-08-2018 1:08pm

Peregrine wrote: »

It was on the cards. Walker tweeted that he's not sure that they 'got St. Margaret's right' and asked people to engage with the consultation.

It was mental having double decker city buses serving these villages. A local route would be better. It's only like four buses a day. It shouldn't be that difficult to resolve. A local route to Charlestown could work out quicker for them sometimes when you factor in the Finglas West and Village detour of the current 40B.

Once they get to Charlestown, at peak (current 40 B is mostly peak), they can connect with an F3 every 10 minutes, an E2 every 8 mins or a 7 every 8 mins. Local bus + F3 could be quicker than or as quick as their current 40B, local bus + E2/7 would be as quick if not 5 mins slower. There's also the F1/2 (the current 40) but nobody in their right mind would get on that unless you live in Finglas South or West.

Anyway, with 16 buses from Charlestown every hour off peak and 22 buses every hour at peak times providing comparable and reasonable journey times and a further 4-6 slower buses if they're really stuck, I think they'll be okay with a local bus.

All the outlying rural areas should really take a similar approach to that of the 44b. A low capacity single decker bus running to and from a larger hub. This could easily could easily be done for the likes of the 40b and 41b. They also propose getting rid of all service from Glencullen (44b) and Rolestown (41b) so that will probably result in similar results.

There was the 240 which used to serve the area and replaced the 40b and ran to Cappagh Hospital which sounds like an ok arrangement however this was one of the most short lived DB routes ever.

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/Route240.html

The area the 40b serves looks like it was very poorly planned a council estate in the middle of nowhere how typically Irish.

r93kaey5p2izun · 03-08-2018 2:41pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I had assumed the letters were at least partially to do with place names
F for Finglas
B for Blanch/Ballsbridge
A for Airport
C for Clondalkin
D for Drimnagh

with extra letters juse filling in the A-G structure.

It was probably that or go anti-clockwise

C doesn't go to Clondalkin.

I agree re potential for confusion of D buses mentioned previously (ie D3 doesn't serve D3 etc). I've actually already seen a good bit of confusion over the N4 route and the road.

BTW I can no longer see some of the maps on the website. The existing network, tbe new network "big picture" overview, Dublin West Outer. The link to download them as pdf isn't there. I've checked on a few devices and different browsers.

CatInABox · 03-08-2018 3:31pm

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

C doesn't go to Clondalkin.

I agree re potential for confusion of D buses mentioned previously (ie D3 doesn't serve D3 etc). I've actually already seen a good bit of confusion over the N4 route and the road.

BTW I can no longer see some of the maps on the website. The existing network, tbe new network "big picture" overview, Dublin West Outer. The link to download them as pdf isn't there. I've checked on a few devices and different browsers.

There's always going to be the potential for confusion when it comes to naming/numbering the routes, but people will get used to it. After a few stories about people getting the wrong bus spread around, most people will know that the D4 doesn't go to D4.

The PDFs are all there for me, just click the picture and then download them.

r93kaey5p2izun · 03-08-2018 3:42pm

CatInABox wrote: »

There's always going to be the potential for confusion when it comes to naming/numbering the routes, but people will get used to it. After a few stories about people getting the wrong bus spread around, most people will know that the D4 doesn't go to D4.

The PDFs are all there for me, just click the picture and then download them.

There are no pictures. It just states the map number and name and you click a dropdown arrow then the link "download as pdf" appears - except it doesn't appear anymore for certain maps on any of my devices or browsers. Hopefully it will work on laptop when I get home later.

CatInABox · 03-08-2018 3:50pm

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

There are no pictures. It just states the map number and name and you click a dropdown arrow then the link "download as pdf" appears - except it doesn't appear anymore for certain maps on any of my devices or browsers. Hopefully it will work on laptop when I get home later.

Try this one, it's direct from their website:

https://busconnects.ie/media/1278/map-2-proposed-all-day-network-big-picture.pdf

Daith · 03-08-2018 3:59pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Try this one, it's direct from their website:

https://busconnects.ie/media/1278/map-2-proposed-all-day-network-big-picture.pdf

Is there a reason the F high frequency bus doesn't go to Finglas village? It seems to stop just before Finglas itself? Is it just that there's tonnes of other buses?

StreetLight · 03-08-2018 4:08pm

Daith wrote: »

Is there a reason the F high frequency bus doesn't go to Finglas village? It seems to stop just before Finglas itself? Is it just that there's tonnes of other buses?

There is no F bus. It's only to indicate how all buses on the F-spine run together up to that point before branching off. The F1 and F2 run through the Village and the F3 runs close by along the bypass.

Daith · 03-08-2018 4:11pm

StreetLight wrote: »

There is no F bus. It's only to indicate how all buses on the F-spine run together up to that point before branching off. The F1 and F2 run through the Village and the F3 runs close by along the bypass.

Ah ffs thanks. Was getting confused with the frequency.

davetherave · 03-08-2018 4:19pm

Daith wrote: »

Is there a reason the F high frequency bus doesn't go to Finglas village? It seems to stop just before Finglas itself? Is it just that there's tonnes of other buses?

There is no "F" bus, there is an F1, F2 and F3. They all run the same route out as far as the junction of Tolka Valley Road and Finglas Road. The F1 and F2 turn left on to Tolka Valley Road and the F3 carries straight on.

F Spine: Finglas to Kimmage
This short spine, with service every 7.5 minutes, would replace most of the existing Finglas and Harold’s Cross services.

In the north, all service begins at Charlestown Shopping Centre, but different branches would cover most parts of Finglas every 15minutes:

• The F1 and F2 serve as the “local branch”, similarly to existing Route 40. This branch serves McKee Avenue and Finglas Village, and then doubles back to serve Finglas West before turning definitively toward the city centre via Finglas South.
• The F3 serves as the “bypass branch”, similarly to existing
Route 140, taking the Finglas Bypass directly to the Tolka
Valley.

The branches merge into a spine on Finglas Road at Tolka Valley. From there the spine flows past Glasnevin Cemetery, and meets the E spine at Phibsborough. Rather than duplicate the E, the spine follows the current Route 40/40b/40d routing, turning east
on Whitworth Road to Drumcondra and then south into the centre

On the south side the spine extends out Clanbrassil Street Lower to Harold’s Cross and then along Kimmage Road to Kimmage. At this point the spine branches three ways:

• F1 and F2 (every 15 minutes when together and 30 when separate) cover two slightly different routes through Perrystown and Templeogue, terminating at the Spawell Roundabout.
• F3 (every 15 minutes) follows a more westerly route through
Kimmage and Crumlin Village to end at Greenhills College.

salmocab · 03-08-2018 4:25pm

davetherave wrote: »

There is no "F" bus, there is an F1, F2 and F3. They all run the same route out as far as the junction of Tolka Valley Road and Finglas Road. The F1 and F2 turn left on to Tolka Valley Road and the F3 carries straight on.

F Spine: Finglas to Kimmage
This short spine, with service every 7.5 minutes, would replace most of the existing Finglas and Harold’s Cross services.

In the north, all service begins at Charlestown Shopping Centre, but different branches would cover most parts of Finglas every 15minutes:

• The F1 and F2 serve as the “local branch”, similarly to existing Route 40. This branch serves McKee Avenue and Finglas Village, and then doubles back to serve Finglas West before turning definitively toward the city centre via Finglas South.
• The F3 serves as the “bypass branch”, similarly to existing
Route 140, taking the Finglas Bypass directly to the Tolka
Valley.

The branches merge into a spine on Finglas Road at Tolka Valley. From there the spine flows past Glasnevin Cemetery, and meets the E spine at Phibsborough. Rather than duplicate the E, the spine follows the current Route 40/40b/40d routing, turning east
on Whitworth Road to Drumcondra and then south into the centre

On the south side the spine extends out Clanbrassil Street Lower to Harold’s Cross and then along Kimmage Road to Kimmage. At this point the spine branches three ways:

• F1 and F2 (every 15 minutes when together and 30 when separate) cover two slightly different routes through Perrystown and Templeogue, terminating at the Spawell Roundabout.
• F3 (every 15 minutes) follows a more westerly route through
Kimmage and Crumlin Village to end at Greenhills College.

F3 effectively replaces the 9 so with a bit of a change on its city section. My parents will be delighted they’ve had the 55,155,55,19A,9and soon the F3 they’ll understand the change is just a number really.

Dardania · 03-08-2018 4:34pm

Newstalk now:

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1025402497035202561?s=21

dublinman1990 · 03-08-2018 4:50pm

Dardania wrote: »

Newstalk now: https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1025402497035202561?s=21

I suppose he is there to talk about the public consultations that began by the NTA in Charlestown Shopping Centre yesterday. He would have probably raised the issue of complaints coming in from all of the public representatives criticizing this plan to their own constituents.

Was there any important remarks made about the public reaction to the plan because I think I have missed the Newstalk interview.

TheChrisD · 03-08-2018 4:54pm

Dardania wrote: »

Newstalk now: https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1025402497035202561?s=21

Hopefully there will be a recording of it. And ideally not posted on the newstalk site that requires cookies to access because of a ****ty GDPR implementation

Dardania · 03-08-2018 5:32pm

TheChrisD wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Newstalk now: https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1025402497035202561?s=21

Hopefully there will be a recording of it. And ideally not posted on the newstalk site that requires cookies to access because of a ****ty GDPR implementation

Link here - half way in: https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/81889/46705/3rd_August_2018_-_The_Hard_Shoulder_Part_1/

Dardania · 03-08-2018 5:35pm

The chat with elderly people in Edenmore is interesting - should we be excessively catering for OAPs on free travel pass, at the expense of the workers?

Dardania · 03-08-2018 6:07pm

Interesting - he conceded the point that maybe more "personalised"guidance might have been better to do before going out for consultation (e.g. virtual route planner, or this table they're putting together comparing routes)

ThunbergsAreGo · 05-08-2018 12:14am

Dardania wrote: »

The chat with elderly people in Edenmore is interesting - should we be excessively catering for OAPs on free travel pass, at the expense of the workers?

Showing plans and comparisons that take workers into account would be a great start

Prefect_1998 · 05-08-2018 12:27am

salmocab wrote: »

F3 effectively replaces the 9 so with a bit of a change on its city section. My parents will be delighted they’ve had the 55,155,55,19A,9and soon the F3 they’ll understand the change is just a number really.

The f3 does not follow any of the 9 in finglas.

The 7a and 7b are the only routes that resemble existing routes to the 83 ad the 9 !!

Are the 7a ad the 7b on a constant loop or do they follow the 7 spine I to the city centre ?

CatInABox · 05-08-2018 1:49am

danielle_door wrote: »

The f3 does not follow any of the 9 in finglas.

The 7a and 7b are the only routes that resemble existing routes to the 83 ad the 9 !!

Are the 7a ad the 7b on a constant loop or do they follow the 7 spine I to the city centre ?

Yes, the seven is like a spine. Both the 7A and 7B will go all the way through the city centre, out to Dun Laoghaire. Each will go every 20 minutes, giving a frequency of ten minutes on the spine itself.

salmocab · 05-08-2018 8:41am

danielle_door wrote: »

The f3 does not follow any of the 9 in finglas.

The 7a and 7b are the only routes that resemble existing routes to the 83 ad the 9 !!

Are the 7a ad the 7b on a constant loop or do they follow the 7 spine I to the city centre ?

Ah fair enough I’ve never been beyond the City Centre coming from the south side on the 9, won’t make any difference to my parents though as there will still be a bus from behind their house to the c/c

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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