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How common is it for people to never find an other half or have kids?

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    #332
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    JDD wrote: »

    I literally cannot understand how people with children live longer than people without. Unless its the fact that you no longer have enough money to ruin your liver, or you can't stand the hangovers, or you take more inherently risky activity when you are not concerned about leaving an orphan. I dunno.

    Yes, effects like that. The effect is subtle and miniscule. For every person, it might lower your chance of dying young by a very very small amount, less than 1%, but over millions of people, that means we have a significant number not dying young. That then increases the expected age.


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    #333
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Sunny Disposition wrote:
    Having a partner and children is life affirming, no question. Sure, there are other ways of being happy but it’s definitely good not to be alone. Young people should be told this more, too many people put off finding someone and even more put off having children. Definitely should be encouraged. More important than telling people they can be happy on their own, something that is actually more common now.


    It's pretty much drilled into us that it's the social norm to marry and have children. Yes, there are people who are happily single, but there are a lot of people who start to believe there is something "wrong" with them if they're single.
    I'm a little confused as to why telling someone it's so life affirming to do these things is more important than telling them it's okay not to?


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    #334
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    Having a partner and children is life affirming, no question. Sure, there are other ways of being happy but it’s definitely good not to be alone.
    Young people should be told this more, too many people put off finding someone and even more put off having children. Definitely should be encouraged.
    More important than telling people they can be happy on their own, something that is actually more common now.
    It would be far more important to tell people they can be happy in any way they choose to be . . Its incredibly narrow minded to presume only one way is best for everyone .


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    #335
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    It's pretty much drilled into us that it's the social norm to marry and have children. Yes, there are people who are happily single, but there are a lot of people who start to believe there is something "wrong" with them if they're single.
    I'm a little confused as to why telling someone it's so life affirming to do these things is more important than telling them it's okay not to?

    I think the opposite is true, more people saying that it’s fine to be alone, not giving the message that many people find more meaning in relationships with others.


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    #336
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Sunny Disposition wrote:
    I think the opposite is true, more people saying that it’s fine to be alone, not giving the message that many people find more meaning in relationships with others.

    I disagree, but even if it's true, so? Nobody is saying that it's terrible to be in a relationship, or anything negative about relationships in general (except a few extremists, I'm sure). It IS fine to be alone, which doesn't always mean lonely. Being single doesn't always mean alone either.
    People being told it's fine to be the way they are, and shouldn't feel pressured or guilted into either situation, is not a bad thing.
    Being in a relationship for the sake of "finding meaning" is not a healthy reason to be in a relationship.


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    #337
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    I disagree, but even if it's true, so? Nobody is saying that it's terrible to be in a relationship, or anything negative about relationships in general (except a few extremists, I'm sure). It IS fine to be alone, which doesn't always mean lonely. Being single doesn't always mean alone either.
    People being told it's fine to be the way they are, and shouldn't feel pressured or guilted into either situation, is not a bad thing.
    Being in a relationship for the sake of "finding meaning" is not a healthy reason to be in a relationship.

    Just my view that people are more likely to be happy and fulfilled if they are not alone in the long term. It’s something I noticed with my friends as the years go by. Was single myself at the age of 36 and quite happy, so have seen it from both sides.
    Now I know well some people would be happier on their own, but think there are actually few who fall into this bracket. Had loads of single friends in my early-mid 30s bachelor years and v few of them wanted to be alone long term.
    Another thing is that a lot of the people I know who have ended up not having families by their 40s had very few if any proper relationships. People should be encouraged to at least see both sides of things, think it’s v unnecessary and a little sad when people never have a relationship that lasts a fair period of time.


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    #338
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Sunny Disposition wrote:
    People should be encouraged to at least see both sides of things, think it’s v unnecessary and a little sad when people never have a relationship that lasts a fair period of time.


    I'm in a relationship that's lasted "a fair period of time" but jaysus... are you just taking the proverbial?


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    #339
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    I'm 37, single for a few years. One serious relationship in early 20s for 4 years. Few non serious ones since...nothing beyond 6 months.
    Have spent most of 30's getting happier and more comfortable with the idea of being single as I get older as I'm very much of the mindset that if it happens, it happens and absolutely no trying to force something to happen.

    I've a 40 year old friend who was engaged twice to two different people, he was single for about 12 months when he was 30, and was pure miserable on his own. Some people are only really happy when in a relationship.

    In saying all that I have to admit that the thoughts of having someone to share a life with is becoming more attractive as time goes on.....sharing holidays etc can be hard as your friends move to having that with their own kids. Even just having someone who wants to ask and cares how your day went is a lovely feeling.....stuff like that I'm starting to miss as you don't much of that from been best friends.


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    #340
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I think most people want a partner. I don't think there's any message pushed that you SHOULD be alone, just that if you are alone, it's ok.

    Some folk get fierce bothered by other people being single.


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    #341
    slipperyox
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    Far more men are childless than women.


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    #342
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    slipperyox wrote: »
    Far more men are childless than women.

    No stereotypes intended but in general a woman can relatively easily have a one night stand to have a child if that's their intent.
    Doesn't work the other was round though.


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    #343
    slipperyox
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    368100 wrote: »
    No stereotypes intended but in general a woman can relatively easily have a one night stand to have a child if that's their intent.
    Doesn't work the other was round though.

    lol. if the woman has a child after a one night stand, so does the man:p

    you have more female ancestors than male, and apparently 8000 years ago it was 1 male to 17 females having children


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    #344
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    slipperyox wrote: »
    lol. if the woman has a child after a one night stand, so does the man:p

    you have more female ancestors than male, and apparently 8000 years ago it was 1 male to 17 females having children

    Yes...but I meant that it's much more likely to happen when a woman goes out with the intent to do it than when man would intend it.


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    #345
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    [HTML][/HTML]
    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    I'm in a relationship that's lasted "a fair period of time" but jaysus... are you just taking the proverbial?


    No, I think it's quite sad if someone never has a relationship.


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    #346
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    I'm in a relationship that's lasted "a fair period of time" but jaysus... are you just taking the proverbial?

    If you've been in a relationship for a while and then decide that they're not for you that would be grand. But if you never experienced a relationship at all and were left wondering if you might have enjoyed being in one then that is sad.


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    #347
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    [HTML][/HTML]


    No, I think it's quite sad if someone never has a relationship.
    If not by choice, yes.


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    #348
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    If you've been in a relationship for a while and then decide that they're not for you that would be grand. But if you never experienced a relationship at all and were left wondering if you might have enjoyed being in one then that is sad.


    The other poster wants to make it seem sad and unnecessary for people not to be in a relationship, regardless of those people's personal feelings on the matter. It's as though your only life goal should be getting into a relationship, and the word "unnecessary" indicates the poster thinks that all single people are single by choice. Telling people who want to be in a relationship that their life will be "affirmed" when in a relationship and that them not being in one is unnecessary only makes them think there's something wrong with them. Telling someone who is in an abusive relationship (or has been in one) that relationships are life affirming is ridiculous. Telling people who want to be single that their life will have more meaning in a relationship and that it's sad that they're not is just patronising.



    I'm in my current relationship because I want to be in this relationship. I do not, however, want to be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship. I've seen too many unhappy people who have settled in fear of being alone, or getting judged for being single. My point is that single is not the worst thing in the world. If someone wants to be in a relationship, then that is perfectly okay. If someone wants to be single, that is also perfectly okay. It's not "sad" or "unnecessary". It doesn't mean their life is awful, or lacks meaning.


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    #349
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭worded


    Father says to son ....

    Today is a special day, you will always remember today as a special glorious day.

    Son says but I’m not getting married until tomorrow dad ....

    Dad says .... I know

    One a serious note ....

    Better off to be single than in the wrong relationship

    If you meet the right one, great

    If you meet a wrong one ..... run to the hills


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    #350
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I don't really want kids, but would keep that to myself UP TO A POINT as it would scare a lot of ladies off.

    I'm in my mid 30s, single, but could do with some company or someone to travel with. It does just seem to me though that everyone I see just happens to bump into someone they like and hey-presto, its a relationship and they're happy. I was a late starter and have a depressing litany of short relationships, none of which are very fulfulling and end up with me getting fed up or her dumping me out of the blue. I keep thinking that I know of no-one else that has worse luck than I do with women.

    Now I'm sure some of it is my fault, but it just seems that the whole "meeting someone" thing is simply so easy for others, but its something that I have never managed to be any good at. Theres only so much failure one person can take... can't just get over it and pick yourself up to try again, ad infinitum.

    Until what point? It's extremely unethical to string women along if they want kids, especially if they're around your age. I had 18 months of my time wasted dating someone who only admitted that he never wanted kids or marriage during a fight we had at the end of the relationship. So many men just don't seem to understand how truly awful this behaviour is. Literally robbing a woman of her chance to have kids because they think if they admit it, nobody will sleep with them/date them. How selfish is that? These were prime years for me (age 31-32) to be dating with the intention of settling down, and this clown wasted my time knowing that it would never, ever work out because he had no intention of having a family. That was precious time I could have spent dating someone who did want the same things. You're not entitled to female company or relationships. If you want to prioritise travelling and so on (and there's nothing wrong with that), then either seek out childfree women or accept that you might have to fly solo.

    It's so weird how women are always blamed for not having kids, when in my experience, 95+% of the time, it's men who are the ones to cause this to happen. Most of the single women I know in their thirties were strung along and then dumped at 32-35, right at the time they'd have been looking at starting a family. At the worst possible age to have to start all over again. A lot of men just don't seem to be able to get it into their heads that this is really, really awful behaviour. If you're in a long-term relationship that you know in your heart isn't going to work out and that you're just together out of convenience or familiarity, then end it while you're still in your twenties. Don't wait until she's 33 and expecting to get engaged and start a family soon and then decide you don't want kids/don't want them with her/want to travel around the world/need to be single for a while.


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    #351
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    The flipside of Lainey's post is women putting up with horrendous relationships just so they can stick to the timeline they've set in their heads of getting married and having kids at a certain age. Or the other ladies who spend an age wearing a lad down - through tears, taunts and silent treatments - and have him agree to a wedding and children, not because he wants them but to have a quiet life.

    Both those scenarios sound fúcking horrendous in my book.


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    #352
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Speaking from experience, finding your other half is one thing, but holding on to them is quite another.....also, finding your other half later in life can be beneficial as you're less likely to break up! There again, you could fall in love at 20 and stay together for life.

    It's written in the stars . . .


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    #353
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Redsky121 wrote: »
    Who blames women for not having kids?

    I would say that a quick google will give you an unlimited list of articles that have the headlines ‘women are leaving it very late to start a family’ or ‘women risk infertility and childlessness by putting family on hold’ or ‘women are leaving it later and later to have children risking birth defects’ or ‘women should consider having children at an earlier age to avoid infertility’. There are heaps of articles of that nature and in every single one the only focus is that it’s the woman’s decision to leave having children to their late 30s or early 40s and that they are responsible for all listed above.

    Nowhere in any of these numerous articles will you ever find a single reference to the men in the equation, like it’s a decision solely taken by women. Nowhere does it account for the fact that these women cannot have children without a man ( with the exception of a tiny number of women who choose to go it alone by using a donor etc).

    Head on over to the PI/RI forum and every week you will see a post from a woman who is in a relationship and knows that their time to have kids is running out but their partner / husband is dragging their heels and kicking the can down the road. And quite often have said they will have children. I don’t believe that so many men are so ignorant to not know that women have a limited time to have children.

    Many women in their late 20s and early to mid 30s aren’t having children because the men they are with won’t have them/ have delayed having them or they are single so haven’t met someone to have a long term relationship with which ultimately results in children. That’s not a choice, it’s a consequence of their situation.


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    #354
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Redsky121 wrote: »
    Who blames women for not having kids?

    Everyone. Women are always made out to be the ones who 'choose' not to have kids or 'put it off' until it's too late. Rarely a mention of all the men in their thirties who don't want to commit, but will happily date women and string them along for as long as it suits them. This is an epidemic.


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    #355
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Redsky121 wrote: »
    I don't think that's blaming, that's just looking at the facts.

    If I was reincarnated as woman and wanted to have a family I'd start looking for husband material at 23 or 24, you have to look after number one and take responsibility for your own happiness.

    And what man of 23 or 24 wants to settle down and have kids? I met my ex at 23 and we were together for 7 years. It didn't work out. This is the most common scenario, not women who are somehow too busy with their careers to date.


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    #356
    JDD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭JDD


    Who knows who'd be "good husband material" at 23 or 24? And what man would know that their 23 year old girlfriend is actually "good wife material" at the same age? Everybody changes massively as a person during their twenties.

    You could absolutely pick a guy that you get on with, seems responsible, says they want to start a family in their thirties, looks like the settling down type and you'd run exactly the same risk of them turning around to you at 31/32/33 and saying "actually, I've changed my mind, that's not what I want after all".

    Your twenties are a time to figure out who you are, what you want from a relationship and what you don't want.

    How about when you meet someone who seems like the right guy in your late twenties/early thirties, and you're both honest with each other right from the start about whether you want to get married and are, or are not, partial to having kids. And I mean, second date early, not a year in early. Then everyone knows where they stand.


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    #357
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Redsky121 wrote: »
    I don't think that's blaming, that's just looking at the facts.

    If I was reincarnated as woman and wanted to have a family I'd start looking for husband material at 23 or 24, you have to look after number one and take responsibility for your own happiness.

    I did that at 22 with a man who claimed to have similar goals and found myself single at 27. It unfortunately didn't work out.
    That doesn't mean I didn't try hard enough to have a family or that I didn't take responsibility for my own happiness. I tried to be proactive and it didn't go in my favour.

    Women do not wake up at 30 and have an epiphany that having children is suddenly their life goal.
    These women always wanted children, they usually end up alone at that age because the relationship(s) they were in throughout their 20's didn't work out.
    Not because they were sitting on their arses waiting for prince charming to break in their bedroom window.


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    #358
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I did that at 22 with a man who claimed to have similar goals and found myself single at 27. It unfortunately didn't work out.
    That doesn't mean I didn't try hard enough to have a family or that I didn't take responsibility for my own happiness. I tried to be proactive and it didn't go in my favour.

    Women do not wake up at 30 and have an epiphany that having children is suddenly their life goal.
    These women always wanted children, they usually end up alone at that age because the relationship(s) they were in throughout their 20's didn't work out.
    Not because they were sitting on their arses waiting for prince charming to break in their bedroom window.

    Exactly. This is the same for almost every woman I know over 30 who doesn't have kids but wants them. It seems to very common these days for men to turn around at 32ish and decide that the woman they've spent the last decade with isn't wife material. Perhaps because they put it off too long? Maybe in previous generations, the marriage and kids would have happened far earlier, during the honeymoon stage before it all went stale. Now you can end up getting to that familar/mundane stage before any of that has even happened.


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    #359
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Redsky121 wrote: »
    Some do, I know men who had kids at a similar age. I had my first child at 25. You don't have to go for men the same age, go for men 4 or 5 years older then.

    Another thing, if you're interpreting blame for other people's commentary and bothered by it I'd suggest stop looking for approval from other people, be your own approval and be smart about what you want. Even if someone did "blame you". Who gives a sh1t, it's irrelevant. Stop looking for the world to give you approval. You're an adult now, stop trying to replace Mammy and Daddy with approval from another authority.

    Could you be any more patronising? I'm talking in general, not just about myself.


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    #360
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Redsky121 wrote: »
    Women are the ones who have the bigger constraint on when they can have kids so therefore it'z more likely they will leave it too late.

    This is not a case of women leaving it too late. You claimed in your previous post that women should be looking for husband material in their early twenties. When it was pointed out that most men do not want to get married in their early twenties you said they should go for someone four or five years older. Guess what? A lot of men in their late twenties and early thirties won’t commit to having kids either.

    No article I’ve ever read ever says ‘couples are leaving it late to start having children’ like children are solely women’s responsibility, even at the conception.

    And as for your comment about knowing men that have had children in their early 20s. I don’t have any statistics to back it up but the vast majority of men I know that had children in their early 20s were unmarried and the children were not planned. Some of these relationships work out and some do not. But for the women who does want to have children within a stable relationship the number of men who want that in their twenties at all is few and far between.


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    #361
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lainey not everything in life needs to be a woman vs man issue.


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