The rise of fascism in the 21st Century

Fascism isn't really the right term but there is undeniably a growing strands of populism that are rather concerning. There isn't just one singular ideology there are several and they only distinguishing characteristic between them is how just toxic and rancid their core supporter base behave towards others. People on the 'left' say it's the right. People on the right say it's the left. In truth, new wings of political ideologies are taking hold and none of these look to be healthy for society. This isn't because they're new but because they're ideological viewpoints optimised to polarise divides and amplify isolationalist moods among various groups. Take the recent Casey traveller debacle. How many people can recall constructive civil discussions in their everyday experiences outside of boards?

All I've witnessed thus far is circle jerks with a majority consensus rapidly being reinforced; whatever it was. There was just a constant dismissive mocking of the concerns and points of the 'other' side that disagreed. Despite the fact that there is a broad spectrum to the 'other' side; it's not just, a, side. There are several but this is rarely if ever acknowledged nowadays. Nowadays it's just blame, complain, dismiss, mock and evade. There's not attempt to empathise, rationalise or even discuss a disagreeing viewpoint. It's just side snide backslapping, sometimes adjacent with a heavy persecution complex, that seeks to reinforce a group identity rather contribute to a better society.

We live in an era where technology can be used to communicate across fast distances. Yet of late all that technology is being used for is push people further and further apart. At some point, you feel, there will be rather significant consequences and I just fear by then it won't be too late to reverse the course. It's not that hard, find something you disagree with, stop mocking it, take note of why people might hold those opinions and try to engage and understand others points of view. Most of all understand that there isn't just one or two points of view, there are several and no idea, no matter it is, is infallible and foolproof. If you can't recognise the frailties in your position there your position is, in my eyes at least, a very scary one.

Communication takes more effort than complaining, blaming and mocking does but considering it's the cornerstone by which our societies were built it would be nice if people could start putting in that effort. If they don't then the consequences could be dire.

Is it a protest vote as we saw here and elsewhere Dr Fuzzenstein ?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They had some gains, but the left and the greens had more. Even the poor old FDP is back in again.

Vorläufiges amtliches Endergebnis:
CSU: 37,2 Prozent (85 Sitze)
SPD: 9,7 Prozent (22 Sitze)
Freie Wähler: 11,6 Prozent (27 Sitze)
Grüne: 17,5 Prozent (38 Sitze)
FDP: 5,1 Prozent (11 Sitze)
AfD: 10,2 Prozent (22 Sitze)

AfD has 10.2, but greens and freie Wähler had the most gains here, commanding 29.1% of the vote, that is a resounding success for the middle and the left. Three times as many voters went green or freie Wähler than AfD. Very happy to be part of that very sizable block of voters.
With the economy doing well and fewer migrants arriving compared to the peak of 2015/16.

Hessen, AfD has a little more, but once again, greens the biggest winners here

CDU: 27
SPD: 19.8
Grüne: 19.8
Left 6.3
FDP: 7.5
AfD: 13.1

There is no massive shift to the right. No right wing revolution. AfD is still a joke party for cranks and malcontents, whilst more serious middle and left leaning parties are the go-to solution for voters who want something different.
Nobody is going into coalition with the AfD, they will have exactly zero power, all they will do is make a bit of noise on the sidelines.
It was the same with the NPD before that. They got a few protest votes and then they sank without a trace.

AFD gained more than any other party in Hesse. They are in second place in a couple of states. Bavaria was known as being a more challegning state, as most of the parties there are right wing to begin with (FW, CSU, FDP). They are polling at about 16% nationwide, which is more than the SPD, which would have been unthinkable a couple of years ago.

Granted that the SPD is mostly losing support to the Greens, but the CDU is losing support to the AFD.

Nobody is going into government with the AFD, but the AFD is helping to guarantee a hung parliament. They are the third largest party, and gaining. I think it would be foolish, and a piece arrogant to assume they are going anywhere in the near future. If the social causes which gave rise to them are cured, they will probably collapse in support, but that is unlikely to happen.

hill16bhoy wrote: »

For the umpteenth time, you're attempting to rationalise racism again.

Casey denied the very ethnicity of Travellers, broad brush vilified them, called our Taoiseach "an Indian", and made anti-semitic comments against Jews.

What race are Travellers? How does one identify as a Traveller? Would love to know the requirements. Leo Varadkar is of Indian ethnicity by the way, he'll be the first to tell you that himself. Casey didn't infer he wasn't Irish and well you know it.

See, it's you and your stock that have people rolling their eyes when the dreaded ''R'' card is played. You're cheapening the word. I've got into it with you on another thread and all you do is drag it down so for the good of everyone else, I'm not responding to you. But make no bones about it, it's your ilk that have people sick and tired of these labels being thrown out. If there is a rise in rightism, it's helped along by the very likes of you.

Stephen15 wrote: »

So are Indians/Bangledeshis/Pakistanis working in a petrol station or a convience store fulfilling a skills shortage or Nigerian taxi drivers or Brazilian rickshaw drivers all fulfilling skills shortage. Fact is our generous social welfare system is facilitating Irish people to sit on the dole while forgeiners work in unskilled jobs or go on the dole and claim benefits which they should not be entitled to.

Most of the jobs forgeiners are doing could easily be done by the Irish. This could be done by either attracting immigrants to return or giving the jobs to Irish people who are not working. Come the next reccession immigrants will become a burden once again just like the last one.

Some people don't like the sentiment. But its plain common sense that this is a massive issue that dare not raise its head.

If Irish people were so lazy/incompetent, then who built the country to such a state that others left their own country to be here!?

Where are all these extra people living during a housing crisis? Where are they getting healthcare in a crowded, malfunctioning health system? And as said above, how is it tying into forcing/enabling irish people to simply "check out" of the workforce?

It doesn't make any sense! Its the tried and failed pyramid scheme being foisted on the country by conmen and useful idiots.

One more common sense question, how was housing not an issue during the "bad times" of the recession, yet during the "good times" of now, people are being fleeced for accommodation, if theyre lucky to have anything decent at all. The simple observation of reality smashing against "the narrative" is what has people becoming increasingly angry and ready for change. No, not everything is down to immigration, but its certainly ONE of the lightning rods snapping people out of it.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

He invaded Poland too and annexed the Sudatenland. And all these other imaginary things that Peter Casey did.

He did come up a bit of a cropper in Stalingrad mind...

Stephen15 wrote:

So are Indians/Bangledeshis/Pakistanis working in a petrol station or a convience store fulfilling a skills shortage or Nigerian taxi drivers or Brazilian rickshaw drivers all fulfilling skills shortage. Fact is our generous social welfare system is facilitating Irish people to sit on the dole while forgeiners work in unskilled jobs or go on the dole and claim benefits which they should not be entitled to.

No but the doctors, nurses, engineers, and tech workers are fulfilling a skills shortage. If a nurse comes to Ireland because we have a massive staff shortage in the HSE, and their husband/wife comes too should they be excluded from working if they happen to not fall into a category on the highly skilled occupations list? Why shouldn't they take a job in a petrol station or as a taxi driver? If Irish people are abusing the welfare system that's not the fault of immigrants. Similarly why shouldn't foreign students who come here to study be able to take up part time work. If there is work to be done and they are willing what's the problem?

Stephen15 wrote:

Most of the jobs forgeiners are doing could easily be done by the Irish. This could be done by either attracting immigrants to return or giving the jobs to Irish people who are not working. Come the next reccession immigrants will become a burden once again just like the last one.

Your estimation of what immigrants are entitled to is pretty fantastical, the processes involved in getting a visa to enter the country and a permit to work in it are rather complex and take a long time.
Saying that Irish people could just do the jobs that are being done by foreign workers is incredibly simplistic. If that were true or possible why would we even have a highly skilled occupations list or a process for critical skills work permits? We could just pop down to the dole office grab a few people out of the q and send them off to the Rotunda to start delivering babies, we could have a word with Zuckerberg and ask why doesn't he just set up a recruitment stand in the post office on a Wednesday morning instead of hiring all those highly skilled foreigners.

As I said we're at 5.5% employment, in most countries 5%is considered full employment which means everyone who can work is working so where you're planning to magic up these Irish people to do these jobs is a total mystery

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

No but the doctors, nurses, engineers, and tech workers are fulfilling a skills shortage. If a nurse comes to Ireland because we have a massive staff shortage in the HSE, and their husband/wife comes too should they be excluded from working if they happen to not fall into a category on the highly skilled occupations list? Why shouldn't they take a job in a petrol station or as a taxi driver? If Irish people are abusing the welfare system that's not the fault of immigrants. Similarly why shouldn't foreign students who come here to study be able to take up part time work. If there is work to be done and they are willing what's the problem?




Your estimation of what immigrants are entitled to is pretty fantastical, the processes involved in getting a visa to enter the country and a permit to work in it are rather complex and take a long time.
Saying that Irish people could just do the jobs that are being done by foreign workers is incredibly simplistic. If that were true or possible why would we even have a highly skilled occupations list or a process for critical skills work permits? We could just pop down to the dole office grab a few people out of the q and send them off to the Rotunda to start delivering babies, we could have a word with Zuckerberg and ask why doesn't he just set up a recruitment stand in the post office on a Wednesday morning instead of hiring all those highly skilled foreigners.

As I said we're at 5.5% employment, in most countries 5%is considered full employment which means everyone who can work is working so where you're planning to magic up these Irish people to do these jobs is a total mystery

You are defending a pyramid scheme. Do you know what happens at the end of a pyramid scheme?

doylefe wrote: »

I don't like people who are of a lower social class to me.

I don't like immigration from countries poorer than ours.

I think everything to do with transgenders / gender fluids is fundamentally wrong and incompatible with the human species.

I wouldn't befriend any LGBT types.

I think abortion without good medical reason is murder.

I don't support pandering to minorities.

What does that make me?

angry

hill16bhoy wrote: »

It's only part of a pyramid scheme if you consider capitalism itself to be a pyramid scheme, which would be fair enough, I guess, because at the end of the day it is.

But in and of itself, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that filling necessary skills shortages is part of a pyramid scheme.

Are the workers from other countries who come to work at Google and Facebook part of a pyramid scheme?

Are Mexican dairy workers in Iowa part of a pyramid scheme?

Because without these Facebook and Google workers from other countries, Google and Facebook wouldn't exist here, and without Mexican workers, Iowa dairy farms wouldn't exist.

Yes, they are all part of a pyramid scheme. They displace local workers, use housing, use healthcare, use all facilities. They don't exist for a job in isolation. There is more than a fair chance they will stay here, grow old here, send children into schools here, require pensions and sustenance here. Never mind the social effects.

A strong argument would be bringing in foreign workers to train local workers where there is a GENUINE lack of skills. It should be timestamped and when the worker has been trained, there is no need for the foreign worker. But of course, that would be far too sensible, and never happens. You either have a country that works for ITS people, or not.

Side point, what good is a huge international company that pays fractional tax, employs 40 to 70% plus non-irish people, and can be gone in the blink of an eye...exactly how great is tying ourselves to that kind of setup? Its not, is the answer.

Sustainability is the name of the game, and if an industry cannot survive in a country without gigantic outside reliance, then it is quite simply a bad idea in the first place

Generally speaking, a pyramid scheme. And don't forget, we have plenty and plenty of irish people qualifying as nurses doctors etc....where have they gone? To get higher wages elsewhere because the pay here isn't good enough? Would that be related to the fact that imported health workers are paid less? Are they connected?

Do the irish people educated here on the back of irish people paying tax going to cause the same problem for another countries indigenous population of healthworkers?

Its a big old swindle, the whole shebang. Observed reality, as I said earlier, hence the growing anger everywhere.