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Man shoots dead neighbour in Co. Mayo

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    #362
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    walshb wrote: »
    Gotta' love the whole "if you live remote and rural, you have a pass" attitude on this thread!


    Gotta love those Einsteins who post unsubstantiated allegations.


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    #363
    Filmer Paradise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭Filmer Paradise


    walshb wrote: »
    Filmer Paradise wrote: »
    It seems to be an awful accident.

    All the same though it's a pity that some real waster wasn't in the line of fire.

    That's the real tragedy of the situation.

    Waster? Maybe a homeless person, or drunk, or the local village idiot?
    No I was thinking about some piece of dirt with the intention of beating him up and robbing him.

    But you knew that,didn’t you...


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    #364
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There really needs to be consequences here. You just can’t go shooting people. If I had a gun, I wouldn’t even have the heart to shoot an actual burglar.


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    #365
    Filmer Paradise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭Filmer Paradise


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There really needs to be consequences here. You just can’t go shooting people. If I had a gun, I wouldn’t even have the heart to shoot an actual burglar.
    Hard to know what to do in that scenario.
    Often wondered about it myself.

    Big decision to pull the trigger....


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    #366
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There really needs to be consequences here. You just can’t go shooting people. If I had a gun, I wouldn’t even have the heart to shoot an actual burglar.

    It's a very good point. Unless my life was in immediate and real danger.

    This incident does not show this. He just shot a man he supposedly knows well.

    His life was not in any immediate danger. It appears it's a case of shoot and ask questions later...

    That could have been any human being, Just happening to be on the man's property or close to his property. Dead!

    And many seem to excuse it as "he must have been terrified and living in fear." Maybe he was, but what about other people? Is it their tough luck that they happened to be close to this man during darkness, that being their only "crime?"


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    #367
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There really needs to be consequences here. You just can’t go shooting people. If I had a gun, I wouldn’t even have the heart to shoot an actual burglar.

    There will be consequences. The old guy will be prosecuted. He won't get away with it. Of course, the courts might go lenient on him but he'll still do time.


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    #368
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Filmer Paradise wrote: »
    Hard to know what to do in that scenario.
    Often wondered about it myself.

    Big decision to pull the trigger....

    There is a saying:

    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".


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    #369
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There will be consequences. The old guy will be prosecuted. He won't get away with it. Of course, the courts might go lenient on him but he'll still do time.

    I think (hope) he will be charged and convicted, but I seriously doubt he will do any time.

    So, as good as a free pass.


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    #370
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,078 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    LeVaterIzVet wrote: »
    Realistically, why wouldn't he be chareged with murder? Objectively, if a person aims a loaded gun at another person, decides to pull the trigger and kills said person, how could it be argued that he pulled that trigger for any reason other than to kill/seriously injure that person? If he claims that it was meant to be just a warning shot, then surely he could have aimed anywhere other than directly at the victim's car?

    I honestly do feel sorry for both parties, but a man is dead at the end of the day.

    So a man in his 80s fires a warning shot at what he believes is or are intruders and he kills someone so he should be charged with murder yet you have guys stamping on peoples heads after already beating them up just being charged with manslaughter.

    Charlotte Mulhall was found guilty of murder while her sister Linda, who hit the guy on the head with a hammer, was only found guilty of manslaughter.
    All before dismembering the corpse.

    Hell the killers of Garda Gerry McCabe were only charged with manslaughter.
    Maybe if the farmer had used an AK he would deserve a manslaughter charge so. :rolleyes:

    Also the thread on this case, like a lot of other recent threads around here, is showing the growing disconnect between city dwellers and rural folks.


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    #371
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    AulWan wrote: »
    I think (hope) he will be charged and convicted, but I seriously doubt he will do any time.

    So, as good as a free pass.

    Given his age, I'd say he will do time in an open prison. If he lives long enough to be tried and sentenced etc.

    I think the only way he will not be jailed is if he is found medically unfit to stand trial.

    Even if he doesn't do jail time, he still has to deal with the consequences of killing his friend i.e. his conscience.


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    #372
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Minimum sentence for manslaughter in the US where a firearm is used = 25 years imprisonment.

    Minimum sentence for manslaughter in Ireland = a fine at the discretion of the Court.


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    #373
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    Are your tools worth a man's life? Get insurance like a normal person.

    Is stealing tools worth your life?? Get a job like a normal person. - Could be said to thieves.


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    #374
    finjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭finjoe


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    There are no possible scenarios in which he rightly discharged the gun. If the man had broken into his house, fair enough but he didn't.
    was he to wait until the coud be intruder actually had broken the window???...I said earlier we dont know the facts, the man appears to have fired low as the poor unfortunate man was hit, was the deceased out of the car a couple of paces away and the old man fired a warning shot away from the car and unfortunately hit the man???..it was 12 O'Clock at night, was in pitch dark despite most nights this week having good moonlight, we dont know, the gardai are treating it as a tragic accident, a file is gone to the dpp, they will have all the facts, and will judge which is fair, its hanging over the old man in the time being, on what I have heard officially it was a tragic shooting (not malicious) so just because the poor unfortunate man was killed doesnt necessarily mean we shoud throw the book at the old man in this case...we all say I wouldnt do this or that, until one is actually in that position, one cannot say the would or wouldnt react, either over the top or under...blaming this old man for pulling the trigger regardless, I dont know..


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    #375
    Achebe
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭Achebe


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The chance of something happening to you has nothing to do with the level of fear that you feel for something.

    A huge percentage of people have a fear of spiders. I can understand this fear in Australia where loads of the fcukers can kill you, but here in Ireland what are the chances of getting killed by a spider? Close to nil I'd imagine.

    If an old person (anybody) has a fear of being robbed, it doesn't matter what the likelihood of that happening is. All that matters is that the fear is real to them.

    Facts don't care about your feelings.


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    #376
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    finjoe wrote: »
    GooglePlus wrote: »
    There are no possible scenarios in which he rightly discharged the gun. If the man had broken into his house, fair enough but he didn't.
    was he to wait until the coud be intruder actually had broken the window???...
    Before discharging a deadly weapon?!? YES. Damn right he should have waited.

    I've had takeaway delivery guys mistakenly knock on my door after midnight more than once.. Should I have assumed they were intruders and opened my door and fired first, asked forgiveness later?

    Age is not a free pass. If he was 25 or 45 the same excuses would not be made for him.


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    #377
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Filmer Paradise wrote: »
    Hard to know what to do in that scenario.
    Often wondered about it myself.

    Big decision to pull the trigger....

    There is a saying:

    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

    I wonder would you say that if you were face to face with the deceased man's family?

    Or if the deceased was a member of your own family.


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    #378
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    AulWan wrote: »
    I wonder would you say that if you were face to face with the deceased man's family?

    Or if the deceased was a member of your own family.

    Apologies if I wasn't clear but I wasn't talking exactly about this incident when I was replying to the 'big decision to pull the trigger' comment. I was talking in general about the big decision to pull the trigger in a fight or flight scenario.

    It looks like this old guy mistook whether he was in danger or not. My comment was regarding people in real danger, as in someone breaking into their house to rob or harm them.

    I'm not excusing this old guy by the way. He should be charged for this. I do feel sorry for him though in that he was so afraid he acted irrationally.

    That said, I feel much more sorry for the guy who was shot and for his family.


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    #379
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    BattleCorp wrote: »

    I'm not excusing this old guy by the way. He should be charged for this. I do feel sorry for him though in that he was so afraid he acted irrationally.

    Maybe he wasn't all that afraid. Maybe he was very angry and "up for it."

    Up for giving it to this person, or whomever he thought it to be....fed up with whatever.....

    Everyone seems to be assuming he's some sweet old man terrified out of his mind.....

    Remember that man who butchered his neighbor using the teleporter a while back?


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    #380
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    I'd be very interested to see the statistics of burglaries reported in rural areas.

    In 2018 there was just under 17,000 burglaries in Ireland reported and almost half occured in Dublin. Chances are the majority of the other half occured in the rest of the highly populated areas of the country such as Cork, Limerick, Galway, Kilkenny, Waterford etc.

    So I don't think there are enough in rural Ireland to justify being so spooked.

    There seems to be a notion that rural burglaries are a worse crime and deserve more focus than urban ones for some reason.

    The data only goes up to 2016, but play around with these maps and in every single time period, Dublin has half the burglaries in the state, despite having 30% of the population. http://airo.maynoothuniversity.ie/external-content/recorded-crime-monitoring-tool

    Where is this notion that Dublin is some safe haven while rural Ireland is some lawless unprotected free for all coming from?


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    #381
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    walshb wrote: »
    Maybe he wasn't all that afraid. Maybe he was very angry and "up for it."

    Up for giving it to this person, or whomever he thought it to be....fed up with whatever.....

    Everyone seems to be assuming he's some sweet old man terrified out of his mind.....

    Remember that man who butchered his neighbor using the teleporter a while back?

    While your scenario isn't beyond belief, there does appear to be a lot more people afraid in their homes than people driving teleporters at their neighbours.


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    #382
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    There seems to be a notion that rural burglaries are a worse crime and deserve more focus than urban ones for some reason.

    The data only goes up to 2016, but play around with these maps and in every single time period, Dublin has half the burglaries in the state, despite having 30% of the population. http://airo.maynoothuniversity.ie/external-content/recorded-crime-monitoring-tool

    Where is this notion that Dublin is some safe haven while rural Ireland is some lawless unprotected free for all coming from?

    There are guards about for the urban folk... and neighbours.


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    #383
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    There are guards about for the urban folk... and neighbours.

    The numbers of guards makes no difference to the number of burglaries.

    While burglars don't want to get caught, it's not that much of an inconvenience if they get caught because they will only get a light sentence (if any). The only time the courts go somewhat hard on a burglar is if it's an aggravated burglary.


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    #384
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    While I accept your point to an extent, we still need more guards.


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    #385
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    While your scenario isn't beyond belief, there does appear to be a lot more people afraid in their homes than people driving teleporters at their neighbours.

    Indeed...

    But I think a scenario whereby this man may have been rightly fed up, frustrated, scared and angry....it all came together, and there was an element of snapping here. So, not just scared and petrified and terrified...


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    #386
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    There are guards about for the urban folk... and neighbours.

    That is a misconception rural dwellers seem to have about living in suburban areas.

    Garda response times in Dublin are not good either. I've already posted that they didn't turn up for two days when my elderly parent was broken into as they told us they had no cars available.

    Neighbours doesn't automatically = friendly, or that they'd come to your aid. I've "neighbours" two doors away that moved in three years ago, I don't even know their names.


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    #387
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,272 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    walshb wrote: »
    Maybe he wasn't all that afraid. Maybe he was very angry and "up for it."

    Up for giving it to this person, or whomever he thought it to be....fed up with whatever.....

    Everyone seems to be assuming he's some sweet old man terrified out of his mind.....

    Remember that man who butchered his neighbor using the teleporter a while back?

    You are doing quite a bit of assuming there yourself.


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    #388
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    There are guards about for the urban folk... and neighbours.

    Doesn't that contradict the whole "every house in the countryside is being burgled all the time because there's no Garda station in the next town" idea?

    If Dublin has this enormous Garda presence that you claim, why does it have more burglaries per capita than the rest of the country?


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    #389
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,272 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Saw an article which said that the dead man was at the old guys house and went to the beef protest and was calling back at the time he was shot because he left his phone there.


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    #390
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    You are doing quite a bit of assuming there yourself.

    Yes, I am......

    I am broadening the scope....

    The only way any of us can give a real educated analysis is for a clear reconstruction of the events, with the perpetrator being fully honest with his account...

    But I doubt, if he was say angry and up for it, that he'd admit it...

    Likely he tells a story of being petrified, going out to confront and defend and then accidentally shooting the person...

    The "beauty" of this for him, is that he was the only one there.....dead men tell no tales..


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    #391
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The amount of people returning to

    - you dont know what its like out here rural!
    - if the man felt fear then he was justified in whatever course of action!
    - im not defending what he did, BUT...

    not a single reasonable response to the obvious statement- if living rurally forced this man to shoot through his door at his neighbour, then the man should either not be living rurally or not have access to firearms


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