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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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    #5522
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    up for anything wrote: »
    Ah stop, you're making out like this purely for gossip thread is not in the vilest forum on boards mostly populated by disgruntled recent regs with a single purpose. "not the proper venue for you"? I do hope this was a tongue-in-cheek comment. :D:pac::D

    Why is current affairs the vilest forum? Genuine question


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    #5523
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,149 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    So you are saying that without the ‘consensual card being played’ we would definitely have had a retrial.......? Despite the barbaric inhuman injuries etc that were all over the child’s body.......

    if the defence were prevented from entering the defence they wanted that would be grounds for appeal and possible retrial.


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    #5524
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    So you are saying that without the ‘consensual card being played’ we would definitely have had a retrial.......? Despite the barbaric inhuman injuries etc that were all over the child’s body.......

    Which do you think was better for the Kriegels
    1. to suffer the indignity of the attempted slur on Ana’s character by the defense making the allegation, for the length of time it went on in court, followed quickly by the satisfaction of the allegation being blown out of the water so competently.
    (there was the added satisfaction of the murderers then being damned as despicable remorseless cowardly liars for even suggesting it).
    Or
    2. The consensual sex suggestion “not being allowed”in court but then the possibility hanging over them that the “not allowed in court” would be a possible basis for a mistrial?


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    #5525
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    Why is current affairs the vilest forum? Genuine question

    I want to know too.


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    #5526
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    tuxy wrote: »
    The Garda did a great job the DPP also did well and I believe it was very important that the defence had the liberty to constuct whatever defence they felt was strongest. All these combined makes the convictions concrete in my eyes.
    Much earlier on in these thread there were posters claiming the guilty verdict of boy b was unsafe. We have not heard from them since as there is nothing about the trial they can actully point to where procediures were not carried out correctly.
    This case from the very first investigation by the Garda to the jury finding them guilty is a text book example of how such a difficult and desturbing crinimal case should be handeled by the justice system. It's actully a relief to see our police force can perform to such a high standard considering some of the recent scandals.


    I worry that boyb will appeal. Its not that I find the conviction unsafe as such. Appeal doesn't automatically mean unsafe. But I wonder about the psychologists report of boy b not being allowed in evidence regarding his post traumatic stress.

    I wonder will they say that that would have explained his behaviour with the gardai in his interviews.

    I don't even know if that would be grounds for appeal, but i do still wonder about it.


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    #5527
    abff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭abff


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    I worry that boyb will appeal. Its not that I find the conviction unsafe as such. Appeal doesn't automatically mean unsafe. But I wonder about the psychologists report of boy b not being allowed in evidence regarding his post traumatic stress.

    I wonder will they say that that would have explained his behaviour with the gardai in his interviews.

    I don't even know if that would be grounds for appeal, but i do still wonder about it.

    It may have been his behaviour in interviews that proved his guilt, but that guilt already existed, so I don't see how PTSD could be used as an excuse to exonerate him.


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    #5528
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    abff wrote: »
    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    I worry that boyb will appeal. Its not that I find the conviction unsafe as such. Appeal doesn't automatically mean unsafe. But I wonder about the psychologists report of boy b not being allowed in evidence regarding his post traumatic stress.

    I wonder will they say that that would have explained his behaviour with the gardai in his interviews.

    I don't even know if that would be grounds for appeal, but i do still wonder about it.

    It may have been his behaviour in interviews that proved his guilt, but that guilt already existed, so I don't see how PTSD could be used as an excuse to exonerate him.

    I don't think his behaviour in interviews proved his guilt on its own. It was a number of things, but I think it was a crucial factor in the whole picture.

    The report from the psychologist was an attempt to throw shadow over the interviews. But the judge wouldn't allow it be submitted out of concern that he was deciding whether the boy was guilty or innocent and that was the jury's job.

    Also, I'm not saying anything will exonerate him or that an appeal would be successful. How would anyone know that? I'm wondering whether there will be grounds for an appeal. I'm also not saying the conviction should be appealed, but I just wonder that there will be something.


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    #5529
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    Why is current affairs the vilest forum? Genuine question

    Because miserable people come here to complain about the world moving on and leaving them behind.


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    #5530
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Because miserable people come here to complain about the world moving on and leaving them behind.

    Let me guess lux. People who don’t agree with you make you very unhappy and angry?


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    #5531
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    if the defence were prevented from entering the defence they wanted that would be grounds for appeal and possible retrial.

    During the trial there were numerous things that the judge didnt allow to be presented to the jury.......are each of these grounds for an appeal as the defence was not allowed the ‘defence’ that it wanted.....??


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    #5532
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    During the trial there were numerous things that the judge didnt allow to be presented to the jury.......are each of these grounds for an appeal as the defence was not allowed the ‘defence’ that it wanted.....??

    They possibly could be. We’ve no idea what grounds the murderers will be appealing on , if they appeal at all.


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    #5533
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,149 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    During the trial there were numerous things that the judge didnt allow to be presented to the jury.......are each of these grounds for an appeal as the defence was not allowed the ‘defence’ that it wanted.....??

    possibly, yes.


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    #5534
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I want to know too.

    Clearly kidchameleon wants to know too :)


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    #5535
    corpusvile
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭corpusvile


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    I would imagine they use aliases for the initials

    I don't think that would be possible legally as there needs to be a public record of such things.


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    #5536
    corpusvile
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭corpusvile


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    possibly, yes.

    I'm not sure as afaik judges routinely accept/reject evidence in trials just as they grant or deny prosecution & defence requests and/or objections. Trials would probably drag on for years if defence were allowed absolutely everything & anything, I reckon.

    So I don't know if such things would be grounds for an appeal.


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    #5537
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    corpusvile wrote: »
    I don't think that would be possible legally as there needs to be a public record of such things.

    Mere initials as already said are hardly much good in identifying the true identity of the ‘animals’ in this case.....in the Lucan area I’m sure there would be 100’s of individuals that would share the same initials.


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    #5538
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    Mere initials as already said are hardly much good in identifying the true identity of the ‘animals’ in this case.....in the Lucan area I’m sure there would be 100’s of individuals that would share the same initials.

    I’m sure in the local area people are well aware who they are. I’m sure people could find out if they really wanted to but there’s no point the information is no good to anyone really.


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    #5539
    corpusvile
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭corpusvile


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    Mere initials as already said are hardly much good in identifying the true identity of the ‘animals’ in this case.....in the Lucan area I’m sure there would be 100’s of individuals that would share the same initials.

    Well the "true"identity doesn't need to be released but one can't be convicted of murder under an alias. I'm sure they were referred to by name in court & the initials on the court site would have needed to be correct I reckon, even if they're not identified by their full names.


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    #5540
    Moonymoon00
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Moonymoon00


    Any word on the sentencing ?


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    #5541
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    Moonymoon00 wrote: »
    Any word on the sentencing ?

    Doubt we will hear anything. This is Ireland...


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    #5542
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    Doubt we will hear anything. This is Ireland...

    Are you saying it won't be listed on courts.ie? Very unusual if that was the case.


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    #5543
    sullzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭sullzz


    tuxy wrote: »
    Are you saying it won't be listed on courts.ie? Very unusual if that was the case.

    Sentencing adjourned until October 29 and Judge ordered that all relevant reports be made available to the legal teams by October 21.


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    #5544
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Anyone any idea what is delaying the sentencing, or why this keeps getting stretched out?
    It's not as if Ana's parents haven't already been dragged through enough.
    If it's a psychological profile, I am genuinely hoping that it's so the Judge can decide to lock them up longer than he has in mind, but I doubt that is the case.


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    #5545
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Suckit wrote: »
    Anyone any idea what is delaying the sentencing, or why this keeps getting stretched out?
    It's not as if Ana's parents haven't already been dragged through enough.
    If it's a psychological profile, I am genuinely hoping that it's so the Judge can decide to lock them up longer than he has in mind, but I doubt that is the case.

    As I keep saying it's not the judges decision on how long they get in total. Murder is normally a mandatory life sentence with a recommendation of when it should be passed to the parol board.In the case of minors a life sentence is not mandatory. I would hope the judge is planning on giving a life sentence and he may be taking the time to ensure that he has done everything in his power that would leave the defence with no possible grounds for appeal.
    The fact that there is no talk of appeal of the verdict is a good sign and if done correctly it will be the same for the sentencing.
    An appeal would be even worse for her parents than a delay in sentencing.


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    #5546
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    tuxy wrote: »
    As I keep saying it's not the judges decision on how long they get in total. Murder is normally a mandatory life sentence with a recommendation of when it should be passed to the parol board.In the case of minors a life sentence is not mandatory. I would hope the judge is planning on giving a life sentence and he may be taking the time to ensure that he has done everything in his power that would leave the defence with no possible grounds for appeal.
    The fact that there is no talk of appeal of the verdict is a good sign and if done correctly it will be the same for the sentencing.
    An appeal would be even worse for her parents than a delay in sentencing.

    An appeal would be great though for gentleman like mr. gageby et al......giving them an opportunity to fine tune their skills and reputations......!


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    #5547
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Sentencing hearing to take place next Tuesday:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/judge-receives-psychological-reports-on-boys-convicted-of-ana-kriegel-s-murder-1.4062680


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    #5548
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/judge-restricts-media-access-to-sentencing-hearing-for-ana-kriegels-killers-959799.html

    He said he decided to restrict the number of media in court based on his concern, "for the health, welfare and best interests of these children who face the most significant determination to be made in their lives".

    He said the boys are under "enormous pressure" and restricting the number of journalists is necessary to ensure that the environment in court creates the "least interference to their dignity and welfare".






    Is he for real ? Not a mention of the toll on Anas family or the trauma they live daily


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    #5549
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    ...

    Is he for real ? Not a mention of the toll on Anas family or the trauma they live daily

    He did - another account here
    Mr Justice McDermott said that during the course of the trial and following the conviction it was clear to him from his own observations and what happened in the trial that the proceedings were taking a considerable toll on the Kriégel family, the accused boys' families and the physical and mental well being of the two boys.

    He said he had requested that no more than five members of the media be in court to maximise the least possible interference with the boys' right to dignity, health and bodily integrity.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1025/1085664-kriegel-courts/

    I acknowledge the judge has at least to be seen to be fair but I do hope he is at least making a point with the bolded bit.. There was feck all "dignity, health and bodily integrity" shown to Ana by these two scotes - may they rot in hell ...


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    #5550
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    He's right not to let it turn into a media circus

    A victim impact statement will be given by or on behalf of Ana's family


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    #5551
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    McCrack wrote: »
    He's right not to let it turn into a media circus

    A victim impact statement will be given by or on behalf of Ana's family

    As there’s no identifying them anyway we’re really only going to hear the words spoken and some of the people involved reactions. Not sure having half the hacks in the country there will give us much more info.


This discussion has been closed.
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