IMRA Season 2019

Djoucer · 08-02-2019 4:58pm

You’ll get by in normal running shoes in some of the races.

Trail shoes are always better but you’d be able to run a few of the summer races in road shoes. You’ll be a bit slower.

V weather dependent tho. Prince William is probably one of the easier races to do in road shoes in good weather.

Woke Hogan · 18-02-2019 8:15pm

While these races are well ran, what really lets the organisation down is the delay in getting results out. :rolleyes: No results still for the most recent race which was 2 1/d days ago. Their policy is to “get results out within a week”.

Seriously? Most people have lost interest after a few days. I’m not aware of any other similar organisation that doesn’t have results out within hours of the event finishing, including Parkruns up and down the country.

Djoucer · 18-02-2019 8:55pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

While these races are well ran, what really lets the organisation down is the delay in getting results out. :rolleyes: No results still for the most recent race which was 2 1/d days ago. Their policy is to “get results out within a week”.

Seriously? Most people have lost interest after a few days. I’m not aware of any other similar organisation that doesn’t have results out within hours of the event finishing, including Parkruns up and down the country.

Volunteer yourself so and get them up quicker.

Results up within a week is perfectly acceptable. Can’t see how it takes away from the actual race.

Complaining of a 2 and 1/2 day delay? Perhaps IMRA and it’s ethos isn’t for you.

Comparisons to Parkruns are bogus. They run the same 5k course every single week.

Doesn’t require people going out during week to mark a 10km course, demark it, sort out parking/permits etc.

Given all work involved, people are entitled to enjoy their weekend without someone moaning about lack of results on a Monday evening.

Woke Hogan · 18-02-2019 9:14pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Volunteer yourself so and get them up quicker.

Results up within a week is perfectly acceptable. Can’t see how it takes away from the actual race.

Complaining of a 2 and 1/2 day delay? Perhaps IMRA and it’s ethos isn’t for you.

Comparisons to Parkruns are bogus. They run the same 5k course every single week.

Doesn’t require people going out during week to mark a 10km course, demark it, sort out parking/permits etc.

Given all work involved, people are entitled to enjoy their weekend without someone moaning about lack of results on a Monday evening.

Yeah alright, :rolleyes: how long would it take to sift through the times and put up the results? A few hours max? It strikes me as doing a half arsed job to be honest.

Djoucer · 18-02-2019 9:21pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Yeah alright, :rolleyes: how long would it take to sift through the times and put up the results? A few hours max? It strikes me as doing a half arsed job to be honest.

Volunteer and find out. Lots of roles for next week’s race.

You’ll get a quicker answer to be honest if you ask the question on the IMRA forum using your IMRA profile.

Kurt.Godel · 18-02-2019 9:23pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Volunteer yourself so and get them up quicker.

Perfect succinct response from Djoucer.

The leverage behind IMRA is a large band of volunteers who make these races happen. It's a great community and has been for many many years- the secret behind its success. However, things change, and faster results are perhaps expected now from a more online savvy community... not something I personally agree with but I can understand where it comes from.

If you are honestly rolling your eyes at the timing of results Woke Hogan, you first need to look inward and ask what can you do to speed up the process. These races happen/don't happen because of the work put in by volunteers. For 7€/5€ a race, the IMRA model works very well IMO. If you can offer better value by helping speed up the results process, I'm sure all RD's will take on board your suggestions (and no harm in discussion to make things better).

Kurt.Godel · 18-02-2019 9:29pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Yeah alright, :rolleyes: how long would it take to sift through the times and put up the results? A few hours max? It strikes me as doing a half arsed job to be honest.

Sorry I replied to your post now after reading that. Maybe IMRA isn't for you. It's volunteer-led and unpaid, but a huge amount of positivity to those who enter, those who run, and those who organise.

Was your position in the race material that it needed to be posted so soon?

Woke Hogan · 18-02-2019 9:54pm

Kurt.Godel wrote: »

Sorry I replied to your post now after reading that. Maybe IMRA isn't for you. It's volunteer-led and unpaid, but a huge amount of positivity to those who enter, those who run, and those who organise.

Was your position in the race material that it needed to be posted so soon?

If you expect me to tell you my race position you have another thing coming. I take my privacy very seriously, lad.

Djoucer · 18-02-2019 10:10pm

On a positive note, this weekend’s race is one of the classics. Trooperstown.

Good tough uphill and fast downhill, v technical in sections.

Hard race to judge. It can be an energy sapping course when muddy.

Kurt.Godel · 18-02-2019 10:47pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

If you expect me to tell you my race position you have another thing coming. I take my privacy very seriously, lad.

I don't expect at all, and that wasn't what I asked. I had another reply typed but deleted it... what's the point in being negative?

It'd be surprising if your race position and privacy of same affected anyone beyond yourself... now maybe thats not the case, but either way if your position matters to you, perhaps try and change things by helping out and volunteering to make things better. I've hosted a few IMRA races and its always hard to get medical and results volunteers...

I don't wish to be smart but there are no shortage of complainers who contribute less than they receive. Change starts within.

Supernintento Chalmers · 18-02-2019 11:09pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Volunteer yourself so and get them up quicker.

Results up within a week is perfectly acceptable. Can’t see how it takes away from the actual race.

Complaining of a 2 and 1/2 day delay? Perhaps IMRA and it’s ethos isn’t for you.

Comparisons to Parkruns are bogus. They run the same 5k course every single week.

Doesn’t require people going out during week to mark a 10km course, demark it, sort out parking/permits etc.

Given all work involved, people are entitled to enjoy their weekend without someone moaning about lack of results on a Monday evening.

God, that's a fierce over-defensive post, and a shoddy defence at that.
The poster was only expressing an opinion, the first thing they said was that the races are well ran.

Having varying courses does not increase the complexity of recording and uploading results, so no, the parkrun comparison is not "bogus".
Also, do the people who mark the course and sort out the parking also record the results? These are completely separate things and to be fair, parkrun courses also need to be marked / demarked and stewards are required. Usually it's the same handful of people week in week out too, I'm guilty myself of not volunteering enough for my local one.

IMO it's fairly shameful to attack and gang up on somebody who makes a valid point. It doesn't exactly make imra seem like an attractive place for newcomers.
And yes, in this day and age a week is a ridiculous amount of time to take for results to be made available

@woke hogan, hope this doesn't put you off, I'm sure there are plenty of people who share your opinion

Djoucer · 18-02-2019 11:23pm

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

God, that's a fierce over-defensive post, and a shoddy defence at that.
The poster was only expressing an opinion, the first thing they said was that the races are well ran.

Having varying courses does not increase the complexity of recording and uploading results, so no, the parkrun comparison is not "bogus".
Also, do the people who mark the course and sort out the parking also record the results? These are completely separate things and to be fair, parkrun courses also need to be marked / demarked and stewards are required. Usually it's the same handful of people week in week out too, I'm guilty myself of not volunteering enough for my local one.

IMO it's fairly shameful to attack and gang up on somebody who makes a valid point. It doesn't exactly make imra seem like an attractive place for newcomers.
And yes, in this day and age a week is a ridiculous amount of time to take for results to be made available

@woke hogan, hope this doesn't put you off, I'm sure there are plenty of people who share your opinion

Most of this is nonsense. I mean it’s been less than 3 days since race but you’re waffling on about a week!

No-one attacked the poster. He was moaning about volunteers not posting his results within 72 hours.

If you feel “in this day and age” that 3 days is too long to wait, perhaps IMRA isn’t for you.

Marking a 5km fun run in a local park that takes place every week is completely different than marking a mountain. Baffling that this needs to be pointed out. Takes more people, more time, more research, more tape etc.

Recording results for a mtn race is also completely different than a park run. You have to account for early starters, complications if people have gone wrong, which completely jumbles up the results.

Of course, anyone who volunteers, knows this and doesn’t immediately go on a public forum to complain about volunteers.

Woke Hogan · 18-02-2019 11:29pm

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

God, that's a fierce over-defensive post, and a shoddy defence at that.
The poster was only expressing an opinion, the first thing they said was that the races are well ran.

Having varying courses does not increase the complexity of recording and uploading results, so no, the parkrun comparison is not "bogus".
Also, do the people who mark the course and sort out the parking also record the results? These are completely separate things and to be fair, parkrun courses also need to be marked / demarked and stewards are required. Usually it's the same handful of people week in week out too, I'm guilty myself of not volunteering enough for my local one.

IMO it's fairly shameful to attack and gang up on somebody who makes a valid point. It doesn't exactly make imra seem like an attractive place for newcomers.
And yes, in this day and age a week is a ridiculous amount of time to take for results to be made available

@woke hogan, hope this doesn't put you off, I'm sure there are plenty of people who share your opinion

It’s alright, I can handle it. I didn’t know I was interrupting a backslapping session though :rolleyes:

DubOnHoliday · 19-02-2019 9:33am

Putting on a parkrun takes an hour, putting on and volunteering for an imra race can take up half your day depending on where it is. When the race is over the last thing I’d be doing is getting on a laptop to post results and the vast majority of Imra members are cool with that.

Hurrache · 19-02-2019 9:41am

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

God, that's a fierce over-defensive post, and a shoddy defence at that.

Do you know anything about what's happening with the results process at the moment, it certainly appears that you don't.

Why don't the people who complain do so on the official IMRA website and put their name to it?

Peterx · 19-02-2019 11:51am

The Parkrun comparison comes up a lot. 2 very good volunteer led organisations, both with sexy and functional websites. Parkrun is "better" in that it usually has a core team of volunteers visiting the same place every weekend with experience.

By it's nature IMRA struggles with volunteers, they are often willing but inexperienced and they are sometimes just not there.
Every single week with IMRA you could have an entirely different set of volunteers in place - typically a different place, there is no chance of continuity unless the poor unfortunate committee take it upon themselves to personally visit every race, and that leads to burnout.

That's just the nature of the beast and it's difficult to see that unless you volunteer.

So it is a weakness and yes the results are sometimes frustratingly slow but the pluses are many and hopefully see ye at Trooperstown for a big plus, a race in the hills for a fiver

So complaining about the tardy results is valid but having to listen to loads of people react about it (and your volunteering record) is the price

Peterx · 19-02-2019 11:53am

On the plus side if the laptop is acting up (I don't know that it is) I won't have to get a laptop operator for the little gem of a race I'm organising in Laois.

Did I mention the upcoming unofficial Laois Champs?
A fine race, only an hourish from Dublin. Or Limerick.

https://www.imra.ie/events/view/id/1711

There will be a specially commissioned plate for the first Laois male and Laois female over the line.
And everyone will get cake

Hurrache · 19-02-2019 12:13pm

I assume the poster was complaining about Mullaghmeen as that fits the timeline. He'd know there was an issue with course markings going missing and as a result the organisers and committee have the unenviable problem of trying to figure out who at the head of the race ran the designated course and therefore who placed.

I don't think think this is an issue that Parkrun ever has. And like Peterx points out, Parkrun usually has the same group of volunteers week in, week out, on the same course which would probably be local enough to them. It's a much easier proposition.

Peterx · 19-02-2019 12:40pm

Hurrache wrote: »

I assume the poster was complaining about Mullaghmeen as that fits the timeline. He'd know there was an issue with course markings going missing and as a result the organisers and committee have the unenviable problem of trying to figure out who at the head of the race ran the designated course and therefore who placed.

I don't think think this is an issue that Parkrun ever has. And like Peterx points out, Parkrun usually has the same group of volunteers week in, week out, on the same course which would probably be local enough to them. It's a much easier proposition.

To be fair to Parkrun, I don't actually think it's easier having to show up to your local park every week to ensure other people get a free race.

Our model is good, a couple of times a year volunteering for most of us with the dedicated few working their asses off - and thanks to them!

On marking - it's just hugely difficult.

One year at Crone Wood at a junction there was:

Marking Tape
Arrows
A person - a marshal in place

which were directing people back up the steep ride on the way home and lads ran around the marshal to continue on the main path. Runners just wanna run in straight lines, very hard to mark for that.

Courses should be designed to make sense as much as possible - to kinda quote Barry

Slogger Jogger · 19-02-2019 1:39pm

We live in a just-in-time society so there will always be some who are impatient. Some of the remarks in previous threads are out-of-order.
With the majority of IMRA events the results are posted quickly.
Results can be made ready on the laptop quickly enough too, but its the upload that tends to get delayed, certainly in my experience. Not anyone's fault. Results upload functionality is a role that only a couple of people (volunteers) are authorised to do as far as I know, so if they are busy, on holidays, not on email its inevitable that its going to take a few more days. No big deal.
Widening the circle of people who could upload the results could be the answer.

Supernintento Chalmers · 19-02-2019 1:47pm

Peterx wrote: »

The Parkrun comparison comes up a lot. 2 very good volunteer led organisations, both with sexy and functional websites. Parkrun is "better" in that it usually has a core team of volunteers visiting the same place every weekend with experience.

By it's nature IMRA struggles with volunteers, they are often willing but inexperienced and they are sometimes just not there.
Every single week with IMRA you could have an entirely different set of volunteers in place - typically a different place, there is no chance of continuity unless the poor unfortunate committee take it upon themselves to personally visit every race, and that leads to burnout.

That's just the nature of the beast and it's difficult to see that unless you volunteer.

So it is a weakness and yes the results are sometimes frustratingly slow but the pluses are many and hopefully see ye at Trooperstown for a big plus, a race in the hills for a fiver

So complaining about the tardy results is valid but having to listen to loads of people react about it (and your volunteering record) is the price

I'd agree with all that 👍
Being frustrated at slow results does not equate to rubbishing the entire organisation. For the most part imra is a great organisation and i know that some people put a huge amount of work into it.
In my line of work I unfortunately get to disappoint people on an almost daily basis, but I find that good communication tends to lessen frustrations.
If there are genuine delays then I'm sure people would understand if told. But say in the case of the recent race, it has been 3 days, no results and there has been no indication that there have been complications, etc.
Expectation management.

A solution might be to do what some other organisations do. Get a rough set of results, just times and numbers or whatever, mark them as provisional and stick them up on facebook as a pdf.

Hurrache · 19-02-2019 3:49pm

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

If there are genuine delays then I'm sure people would understand if told. But say in the case of the recent race, it has been 3 days, no results and there has been no indication that there have been complications, etc.
Expectation management.

Again on the presumption that it's Mullaghmeen one of the last posts on that race was to say that they're working on the results so bear with them. It also says that they're aiming to have them up within a week. The results and records secretary has also changed so the hand over process is probably still ongoing, in combination with the fact a new results system is being trialled.

There was little phrase when the results for Hellfire a few weeks ago were up and published during the prize giving immediately after the race.

Stark · 19-02-2019 5:14pm

For Mullaghmeen, the course marking was sabotaged before the race meaning chaos for runners trying to follow the markings. People have been working hard in the background all week trying to work out the results in a way that maximizes fairness to everyone.

More often that not the results are up when people have just gotten back the pub.

In terms of "ganging up and attacking", I'd prefer it was some anonymous keyboard warrior getting it in the ear than the volunteers giving up their time to make sure the races go ahead.

Supernintento Chalmers · 19-02-2019 5:23pm

Stark wrote: »

More often that not the results are up when people have just gotten back the pub.

No wonder the results get so confusing. Might be an idea to work on them before going to the pub

Enduro · 19-02-2019 6:29pm

There's a lot of simple-minded asumptions being made here. Some people need to see that there is a bigger picture.

No IMRA race results stand in glorious isolation. Go on to the website. Find some race results. Start following links. An individual's result will link to their profile, showing all their race results. A race can be (and usually is) part of at least one, if not more leagues/championships. The results from a single race update the championship tables. There are seperate tables of results for each category, of which there are many, in both individual races and leagues/championships.

The IMRA website allows you to move around all these links easily because enough care and attention is taken to get each individual result correct. There is a lot more to it than a single isolated race, or to straightforward format such as parkrun. Does anyone know of any other Irish site which updates and calculates such a broad range of data for a single race, whilst keeping the system simple enough to be used by non-technical unpaid volunteers?

Peterx · 20-02-2019 10:37am

Enduro wrote: »

... assumptions .....The IMRA website allows you to move around all these links easily because enough care and attention is taken to get each individual result correct..... whilst keeping the system simple enough to be used by non-technical unpaid volunteers?

Just on this final point and speaking as a very simple non-technical volunteer - if the system could be made one level simpler (or more trusting) more people could have the ability to upload results to the website.

Reading Slogger's points earlier it seems there is a pinch point at upload stage - in that very few people can upload results?

I appreciate this is partially because of all the interlinked linky goodness but it can lead to delays when results are ready to go and the very few upload volunteers are busy elsewhere. Could more people be enabled to upload?

The core point is correct, if usually worded in a way guaranteed to rile.
Speedy results are good for buzz and post race analysis.

Hurrache · 20-02-2019 2:30pm

Isn't the delay in uploading the results more so that they have to be verified/signed off by the results secretary first?

If they're at a race they're put up pretty much immediately where there's an available internet or data connection and no major issues or queries with them. Otherwise they get sent the results and then they upload them. As I said earlier though, there is ongoing work around the results process to simplify it so it may be work in progress.

Enduro · 20-02-2019 2:40pm

Peterx wrote: »

Just on this final point and speaking as a very simple non-technical volunteer - if the system could be made one level simpler (or more trusting) more people could have the ability to upload results to the website.

Reading Slogger's points earlier it seems there is a pinch point at upload stage - in that very few people can upload results?

I appreciate this is partially because of all the interlinked linky goodness but it can lead to delays when results are ready to go and the very few upload volunteers are busy elsewhere. Could more people be enabled to upload?

That's a good idea in theory. Until relatively recently it took a big effort to wrangle the results into a state usable by the website. However now that there are no longer on-the-day registrations this is much less of a problem. What I'm not sure of is how much manual effort is currently required (in general) to correct uploaded results before they are committed and published. So it might be worth looking into the feasability of this. I'll volunteer my time to implement it if it is worth doing (and presuming that the committee agree that it would be a good idea).

Peterx wrote: »

The core point is correct, if usually worded in a way guaranteed to rile.
Speedy results are good for buzz and post race analysis.

Riling goes two ways. I'm totally in agreement with Stark on this. It doesn't bother me if an anymous keyboard warrior gets riled when their total lack of knowledge is pointed out. Tough! People who who volunteer their time to make things work (such as yourself!!) get my full respect though... Ignorant riling of volunteers is another kettle of fish.

ofthelord · 20-02-2019 5:49pm

Hoping to get along to Trooperstown this Sunday to run my first IMRA event since Scalp in 2014. I'm sure it'll be tough, but looking forward to it. I always enjoyed the IMRA events.

Slogger Jogger · 20-02-2019 9:07pm

Re: the results. From my experience it used to be the case that the physical laptop almost needed to get into the hands of the person responsible for upload.
Emailing the database/results file gets around that but it might be better again if there was a dropbox or google-drive to put the results file into so it could get picked up by a results uploader. If a few people were trained in what needs to be done it would lessen the load on individuals. I'd be happy to help if I could.

IMRA Season 2019

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