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UFC 258

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Comments

  • #62
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    The Floyd p wrote: »
    I genuinely don't know what Usman's best win is tbh. Jorge is very good but not truly elite, Woodley was always massively overrated and now is just a shell, Covington is quite well rounded but very hittable. I don't think Usman has a win as impressive as Khabib's over Poirier, or even Gaethje/McGregor.


    Woodley was on a great run Usman agave him a beat down and that changed him , Unfair to judge that fight on the Woodley we have now when Usman was the one to change him,

    Covington is an absolute stud don't let his corny gimmick take that away , He was neck and neck with Usman ,

    Jorge for me is the same level of fighter as Justin , Fun & a good but not truly elite,

    Conor has 1 win at lightweight ,


  • #63
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    xtal191 wrote: »
    100% I think there his best wins. Gethje was coming off 4 wins and Dustin was coming off 4 very impressive wins.

    Usmans best win was Colby which was very close, after that I'd prob say Woodley. Masvidals not elite, Dos Anjos was coming off a loss, Maia off two losses.

    I've no problem if someone thinks Usman has a slightly better resume, there's an argument for both of them but to say either is far superior is ridiculous.

    Justin's win streak was Justin Vick , Donald & Barboza take there last 5 fight each and they are 14 losses to 1 win ,

    Also beat Ferguson who looks to be finished 37 now and

    Dustin is a top fighter,


  • #64
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,415 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    yourdeadwright wrote: »

    Dustin is a top fighter,

    How close was he here?

    https://rutube.ru/video/b37ac85ca11a8e24c8481032f2c614e1/?ref=logo&bmstart=23


  • #65
    xtal191
    Registered Users Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭xtal191


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Justin's win streak was Justin Vick , Donald & Barboza take there last 5 fight each and they are 14 losses to 1 win ,

    Also beat Ferguson who looks to be finished 37 now and

    Dustin is a top fighter,

    I understand that but I just think its ridiculous for anyone to say Khabib/Usman has a far superior resume than the other, there's arguments for both, they're very very evenly matched records. No doubt Usman will surpass it in the future though.


  • #66
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    On planet Earth ,

    I have to agree Usman has fought better fighters than Khabib

    But saying one has a far superior record than the other is strange to me. There is very little between their bodies of work.

    Edwards, Maia, RDA, Woodley, Colby, Masvidal, Burns.

    RDA, Johnson, Barboza, Iaquinta, McGregor, Poirier, Gaethje.

    Probably their top 7 wins there, little to choose between them overall in my opinion.


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  • #67
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    eagle eye wrote: »
    What decent grappler has Khabib beaten?
    Usman has beaten all types.

    RDA.

    What top striker has Usman beaten?
    Don’t say Masvidal on one weeks notice.


  • #68
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    The Nal wrote: »
    For giggles though, remember the apparent threat Gaethje's wrestling was to Khabib because Gaethje wrestled in college?

    You make it sound like he had one match and hasn’t done any training in 10 years.
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Justin is fun to watch but he is not close to elite

    What a ridiculous statement.
    How can you even say this and not be embarrassed.
    UFC champion, not close to elite though.


  • #69
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    The Nal wrote: »
    How close was he here?

    https://rutube.ru/video/b37ac85ca11a8e24c8481032f2c614e1/?ref=logo&bmstart=23

    I actually don't think he was as close as some think ,
    He isn't at the level to get that kind of squeeze needed when Khabib still had one arm in and Khabib is as durable as he is ,

    Not sure if you remember but back in the day when Matt Hughes put Almeida 4th degree black belt completely out with a choke when he was not in the "best " positions but done it because of his squeeze , Dustin would have had to pull something like that off it was different choke but the squeeze was just ridicules


  • #70
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    mdwexford wrote: »
    You make it sound like he had one match and hasn’t done any training in 10 years.



    What a ridiculous statement.
    How can you even say this and not be embarrassed.
    UFC champion, not close to elite though.

    He is a very very good fighter but in my opinion he is not very top tier that what I mean by " Elite"

    I think there are number of light weights that beat him right now
    Come on now he was interim champion not the real champion, Ferguson won his interm title by beating Kevin Lee for god sake,


  • #71
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,415 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I actually don't think he was as close as some think ,
    He isn't at the level to get that kind of squeeze needed when Khabib still had one arm in and Khabib is as durable as he is ,

    Yeah never looked properly hooked in but I have to admit to my untrained eyes it looked close.
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Not sure if you remember but back in the day when Matt Hughes put Almeida 4th degree black belt completely out with a choke when he was not in the "best " positions but done it because of his squeeze , Dustin would have had to pull something like that off it was different choke but the squeeze was just ridicules

    I do remember that. Standing aswell. Freaky strong. Loved watching Hughes fight.


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  • #72
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    The Nal wrote: »
    Yeah never looked properly hooked in but I have to admit to my untrained eyes it looked close.



    I do remember that. Standing aswell. Freaky strong. Loved watching Hughes fight.

    Oh I'm sure it was uncomfortable as hell for Khabib & probably thought "oh ****" at the very beginning but once he made it though the first 10 seconds I think he was safe ,Also he knew to remain clam and not use any energy as Dustin would tire himself out,


    Hughes sunk it in standing but if I recall correctly he pulled him to the ground and used the his body weight , It was a kind of anaconda choke ?

    That from my memory so could be worng


  • #73
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    He is a very very good fighter but in my opinion he is not very top tier that what I mean by " Elite"

    I think there are number of light weights that beat him right now
    Come on now he was interim champion not the real champion, Ferguson won his interm title by beating Kevin Lee for god sake,

    To me the elite are the top 5 in each division kind of thing.
    They are the cream of the crop, if only one person is elite then god knows what the rest of them are.

    I think Khabib and Dustin are the only two I’d make favourite against him.

    If an Interim is created it’s usually between the next two top guys. Not many mugs have held UFC gold.


  • #74
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    mdwexford wrote: »
    RDA.

    What top striker has Usman beaten?
    Don’t say Masvidal on one weeks notice.

    RDA is a good grappler but not he's not like the lads at Welter weight,
    Tibau was fascinating but so long ago its hard to take anything from it,

    Id love to see Usman fight Wonder boy just because as you said there is no elite striker near the top of the Welter weight division ,


  • #75
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    RDA is a good grappler but not he's not like the lads at Welter weight,
    Tibau was fascinating but so long ago its hard to take anything from it,

    Id love to see Usman fight Wonder boy just because as you said there is no elite striker near the top of the Welter weight division ,

    Yeah 170 is wrestler heavy, 155 is striker heavy.

    I agree, I’d love to see that and it’s the fight to make I think. Think he poses a lot of problems for Usman and would be a serious threat.


    Let Edwards fight Masvidal in a number one contender fight.


  • #76
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    mdwexford wrote: »
    To me the elite are the top 5 in each division kind of thing.
    They are the cream of the crop, if only one person is elite then god knows what the rest of them are.

    I think Khabib and Dustin are the only two I’d make favourite against him.

    If an Interim is created it’s usually between the next two top guys. Not many mugs have held UFC gold.

    There can be more than one elite guy in a division ,

    At welter weight I think Usman & Covington are elite fighters,
    Id like to see how Burns does now ,

    Woodley was Elite when Usman beat him ,

    I just don't see Justin as an elite fighter I never have ,he looked lost against Khabib more so than Dustin or Conor did ,

    People got very excited about him about a spectacular performance against Ferguson but its hard to tell where Tony is these days,

    If he comes out and beats a top guy in style again then yes i'll hold my hand ups ,


  • #77
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I just don't see Justin as an elite fighter I never have ,he looked lost against Khabib more so than Dustin or Conor did ,

    People got very excited about him about a spectacular performance against Ferguson but its hard to tell where Tony is these days,

    If he comes out and beats a top guy in style again then yes i'll hold my hand ups ,

    I agree he looked like a deer in the headlights vs Khabib. He normally brings the pressure but he looked completely shocked at the pressure Khabib put him under. Didn’t give him a second to breathe and all he was doing swinging for the fences.

    Also agree Tony looks completely on the downgrade so that performance in hindsight may have flattered him a bit.


  • #78
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    When I first stepped on a mat there was one in Ireland (Kavanagh) so that was the highest level of anyone in the sport ,now there most be nearly a thousand which means guys on all different levels,
    There would be nowhere near 1000 black belts in ireland.
    Maybe over 100, but not by much.

    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    He is a very very good fighter but in my opinion he is not very top tier that what I mean by " Elite"

    I think there are number of light weights that beat him right now
    He's lost to Khabib, Eddie and Dustin. Two LW champions and one Interim champion, who is the defacto best in the world right now.

    This has come up before, I just think it's crazy to limit elite status to the absolute best 2 or 3 guys only.


  • #79
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Mellor wrote: »
    There would be nowhere near 1000 black belts in ireland.
    Maybe over 100, but not by much.



    He's lost to Khabib, Eddie and Dustin. Two LW champions and one Interim champion, who is the defacto best in the world right now.

    This has come up before, I just think it's crazy to limit elite status to the absolute best 2 or 3 guys only.

    Ye a thousand was a throw away comment but you get what I mean,
    I'm sure there over 100,

    Maybe elite is the wrong word , but there is another level of fighter,
    He is beast and a brilliant fighter and its in no way being disrespectful towards him , He is without question one of the best guys in the world but i think guys like Khabib , Dustin are level ahead, I think Oliveria beats him to ,

    Again its not being disrespectful toward him , As you said he has achieved things in the sports that the majority of very good fighter never will .,


  • #80
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Ye a thousand was a throw away comment but you get what I mean,
    I'm sure there over 100,

    Maybe elite is the wrong word , but there is another level of fighter,

    I think Khabib and Dustin are a level above. No argue ever there.

    There was a thread on Facebook that counted all the black belts. Was 70 or so a few years ago. 100-120 now might be right.

    It’s a long way from being able to count all the blue belts in the country.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2055015888


  • #81
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Mellor wrote: »
    I think Khabib and Dustin are a level above. No argue ever there.

    There was a thread on Facebook that counted all the black belts. Was 70 or so a few years ago. 100-120 now might be right.

    It’s a long way from being able to count all the blue belts in the country.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2055015888

    Its crazy how back in 2005/6 you could do that ,also hard to believe that's 15 year ago now,
    A lot of blue belts on the list are now house hold names In the BJJ and MMA community in Ireland,


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  • #82
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Its crazy how back in 2005/6 you could do that ,also hard to believe that's 15 year ago now,
    A lot of blue belts on the list are now house hold names In the BJJ and MMA community in Ireland,

    I’d be interested to see how many people in that list are now black belts.
    Sone are obvious of course.


  • #83
    The Floyd p
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭The Floyd p


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Woodley was on a great run Usman agave him a beat down and that changed him , Unfair to judge that fight on the Woodley we have now when Usman was the one to change him,

    Covington is an absolute stud don't let his corny gimmick take that away , He was neck and neck with Usman


    Woodley was on a good streak, but his constant backing up to the cage and relying on the counter showed that he was rather one dimensional.

    Covington gave Usman a good scrap. Think Usman could have dominated him through superior athleticism if he elected to wrestle, though.


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