Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

Gatling · 28-11-2020 6:16pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Assassinate one of their top military people and then basically threaten them with annihilation if they respond to it?

Iran has American blood on its hands from the 83 Lebanon barracks bombing to the 2nd Iraq war , where they were instrumental in supporting jihadi groups , from weapons and training bomb markers ,

Trump was stating the obvious , target Americans and face massive retaliation ,
And they are not the first government to target others it's going on since the dawn of time ,
Russia attaching UN forces in Korea while standing up in the UN Calling for peace

Donald Trump · 28-11-2020 6:20pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The younger generation in Iran want change and to normalise relations with the West and their neighbours.

Iran is an industrious and highly educated country.

Unfortunately most people associate Iran with terrorism and religious fanaticism.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Islamic Republic was overthrown by street protests or softened by reformers in the next ten years.

Plenty of ignorant people on here would not believe your statement about being an industrious and highly educated country.

Many also probably don't know that Iran's last democratically elected Prime Minister was ousted by the CIA and MI6 who were not happy that he was starting to look at the control that some British companies had over Iran's oil reserves and decided to nationalise them. The US and UK were happy to have the Shah with full power there and be under their control. And that is the way that it remained until the people finally got fed up with the corruption and abuses and they overthrew him in a revolution.

Donald Trump · 28-11-2020 6:23pm

Gatling wrote: »

Iran has American blood on its hands from the 83 Lebanon barracks bombing to the 2nd Iraq war , where they were instrumental in supporting jihadi groups , from weapons and training bomb markers ,

Trump was stating the obvious , target Americans and face massive retaliation ,
And they are not the first government to target others it's going on since the dawn of time ,
Russia attaching UN forces in Korea while standing up in the UN Calling for peace

What's the relevance to the point that I was responding to which appeared to be that no external forces ever threatened Iran.

Are you agreeing with me that plenty have threatened it? I think it's fairly obvious. Countries do it all the time to other countries. I was a little surprised that the poster I was responding to hadn't been aware it it. They seemed fairly naive!

grassylawn · 28-11-2020 6:53pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Plenty of ignorant people on here would not believe your statement about being an industrious and highly educated country.

Many also probably don't know that Iran's last democratically elected Prime Minister was ousted by the CIA and MI6 who were not happy that he was starting to look at the control that some British companies had over Iran's oil reserves and decided to nationalise them. The US and UK were happy to have the Shah with full power there and be under their control. And that is the way that it remained until the people finally got fed up with the corruption and abuses and they overthrew him in a revolution.

On the command of Churchill, and whichever US president it was who made the mistake of listening to him.
The Shah was ousted in 1979 by the current ruling group of religious extremists.
Perhaps reparations are in order.
Letting them develop nuclear weapons is not though.

Zebra3 · 28-11-2020 7:01pm

Gatling wrote: »

Iran has American blood on its hands from the 83 Lebanon barracks bombing to the 2nd Iraq war , where they were instrumental in supporting jihadi groups , from weapons and training bomb markers ,

Trump was stating the obvious , target Americans and face massive retaliation ,
And they are not the first government to target others it's going on since the dawn of time ,
Russia attaching UN forces in Korea while standing up in the UN Calling for peace

Iran has blood on its' hands from when the US attacked Iraq?

Would you ever give over? :rolleyes:

end of the road · 28-11-2020 7:06pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Your mental model of Iran is near non-existent. I would expect such a poor appreciation for the character and nature of a country from a 12 year old who had never read a news item on world events.

Iran has been sponsoring and fomenting terrorism for decades, particularly aimed at Israel. If I mentioned Hezbollah your response would be 'bless you'.

Iran is a rogue state, and that label has been well earned.

israel has been one of the biggest funders of terrorism for decades along with saudi and the US,
some of that israely funded terrorism being aimed at iran.
the iranian government are an aweful government but at least they don't hide the fact they are what they are unlike say, saudi to an extent, and most definitely israel.

myfreespirit · 28-11-2020 7:06pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

I was pointing out that you said because he was named in the Guardian it was acceptable to murder him.

Not sure what your response to me has to do with any of that.

I see that I could have phrased it much better. Sorry for the confusion.
I'll try and clarify what the intended post was:

Mr. Fakhrizadeh was named in the Guardian as a brigadier general in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

Assuming this is true and that he was a senior member of the IRGC, the fact that he was an officer of the IGRC makes him a legitimate target. The IGRC is by any civilised standards, akin to the RIC Auxiliaries. Like the RIC Auxiliaries, the IGRC is IMHO, a bunch of thuggish murderers. Mr. Fakhrizadeh is celebrated as a martyr by the Iranian regime; he is no such thing. He was a grave threat to peace in the Middle East.

Saralace · 28-11-2020 7:14pm

When I was in israel
Mossard was trying
To recruit european jews to join. One english man I knew they asked. He was a medic in the Israeli army. I was supposed at how little they were paying it was minimum wage. When I was in jerusalem 3 came up to me and wanted to buy my passport. At the time a passport was worth 1000 pounds
They offered 30 pounds.when they go to assinate someone they go in groups of 20
They fly in in pairs.then they will have local jewish set up arms and bombs and safe houses when it's over they go back to europe and the bosses back to Israel the problem for mossad
is hotel cameras

Donald Trump · 28-11-2020 7:15pm

myfreespirit wrote: »

I see that I could have phrased it much better. Sorry for the confusion.
I'll try and clarify what the intended post was:

Mr. Fakhrizadeh was named in the Guardian as a brigadier general in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

Assuming this is true and that he was a senior member of the IRGC, the fact that he was an officer of the IGRC makes him a legitimate target. The IGRC is by any civilised standards, akin to the RIC Auxiliaries. Like the RIC Auxiliaries, the IGRC is IMHO, a bunch of thuggish murderers. Mr. Fakhrizadeh is celebrated as a martyr by the Iranian regime; he is no such thing. He was a grave threat to peace in the Middle East.

Was Lee Rigby a legitimate target when he was hacked to death in the UK?

Just trying to get a grasp of your logic and seeing whether you have a consistent viewpoint.

Gatling · 28-11-2020 7:16pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Iran has blood on its' hands from when the US attacked Iraq?

Yes multiple senior Iranian military were arrested and detained in Iraq , several in bomb making factories litterally caught red handed ,
So yeah ,

It's not always America did and America did that .

Gatling · 28-11-2020 7:17pm

Saralace wrote: »

When I was in israel
Mossard was trying
To recruit european jews to join. One english man I knew they asked. He was a medic in the Israeli army. I was supposed at how little they were paying it was minimum wage. When I was in jerusalem 3 came up to me and wanted to buy my passport. At the time a passport was worth 1000 pounds
They offered 30 pounds.when they go to assinate someone they go in groups of 20
They fly in in pairs.then they will have local jewish set up arms and bombs and safe houses when it's over they go back to europe and the bosses back to Israel the problem for mossad
is hotel cameras

Nice story shame it's b's

Ardillaun · 28-11-2020 7:45pm

Cordell wrote: »

An ideal honest safe world will be one without nuclear weapons. We can't have that yet, so the next best thing is a world in which only the western powers and their allies have them. One step at a time, first let's prevent the nutjobs from getting them (by any means necessary), and then, eventually, when it's safe for us to do so, let's get the whole world rid of them.

The record on nuclear weapon use does not support the hypothesis that democracies can be trusted with them more than authoritarian regimes, e.g. Hiroshima.

Ardillaun · 28-11-2020 7:50pm

grassylawn wrote: »

How credible is Iran's claim that they want to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes? Would their level of investment in it make sense if they genuinely are only trying to develop power sources?

I'm guessing that it's not very credible. Wikpedia says they#ve made losses of 500 billion as a result of ploughing ahead with the nuclear programme, aside from the money they invested into it.

I would doubt it. What we’ve seen across the world since 1945 is a pattern - whenever your enemy gets nukes you try to get them too. In 2018, Netanyahu threatened Iran while standing right in front of his nuke factory in Dimona. That’s what impels any nation to go nuclear.

weisses · 28-11-2020 8:10pm

Gatling wrote: »

Yes multiple senior Iranian military were arrested and detained in Iraq , several in bomb making factories litterally caught red handed ,
So yeah ,

It's not always America did and America did that .

It kinda is when they illegally invaded Iraq in 03 resulting in hundreds of thousands being killed

Ardillaun · 28-11-2020 8:12pm

Gatling wrote: »

Does anyone think this is an isolated hit or will be see further hits against prominent Iranians ,
Top military commander and now top nuclear scientist ,
Iran has been huffing and puffing it's going to do this and that yet Israel can hit their forces undeterred in Syria despite various threats from Russia ,
And now we have Israel and turkey supporting Azerbaijan against Armenia ,
And a very much weak and possibly dying Putin (Parkinson's and cancer ) can't be many russians lining up to fight for Syria and Iran especially knowing that you can be targeted 24/7 from Isreal and their US and other new found allies

Iran’s presence in Lebanon and Syria provides some deterrence against an Israeli attack on the nuclear facilitues. US troops in Iraq are even more vulnerable to retaliation as was shown after the assassination of Soleimani. The US initially covered up the severity of the brain injuries suffered there because neither side wanted to escalate the conflict. The relative moderates in Iran’s government are in a two front war against the foreign Satans and the war hawks who are baying for blood, perhaps theirs.

Iran will become more secular in the next few decades - hopefully, Khamenei’s successor will follow the example of Sistani next door and retreat from politics - but the likelihood of liberal democracy flourishing there must be small. Like China, it is an ancient civilization with a deeply authoritarian history.

Ardillaun · 28-11-2020 8:32pm

One extraordinary allegation is that Netanyahu himself was part of the group that smuggled nuclear triggers out of the US to Israel:

Smyth was introduced around to high military officials including then-general Ariel Sharon. Smyth was also put in contact with Benjamin Netanyahu, who worked at Heli Trading Company. According to the FBI report, “Smyth and [Netanyahu] would meet in restaurants in Tel Aviv and in [Netanyahu’s] home and/or business. It was not uncommon for [Netanyahu] to ask Smyth for unclassified material.”

https://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2012/07/03/netanyahu-worked-inside-nuclear-smuggling-ring/

Neither Milchan nor Netanyahu were ever charged. Not so lucky was Milchan’s employee, Richard Kelly Smyth, who was eventually sentenced to forty months after being on the run for years:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-apr-30-me-krytron30-story.html

Incredibly, Milchan, a prolific Hollywood producer, is still allowed to come and go to the US whenever he pleases. Netanyahu’s conduct was potentially more serious in one respect. Unlike Milchan, he was a US citizen at the time of these alleged offences.

Despite all this, Netanyahu saw fit to invite Milchan to his speech to the US Congress on, you guessed it, the perils of nuclear proliferation!

Australian billionaire James Packer (L) and film producer Arnon Milchan listen to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's address to the US Congress on March 3, 2015.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/politics/168305-180222-untangling-the-web-of-graft-allegations-surrounding-netanyahu-an-explainer

In any hard neck competition, you’d have difficulty beating that.

Gatling · 28-11-2020 8:37pm

weisses wrote: »

It kinda is when they illegally invaded Iraq in 03 resulting in hundreds of thousands being killed

Yeah ,

But they targeted US forces and Iraqi civilians it was like bloodletting for the iran -iraq war

Cordell · 28-11-2020 10:28pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

The record on nuclear weapon use does not support the hypothesis that democracies can be trusted with them more than authoritarian regimes, e.g. Hiroshima.

Seriously?
Ok then, just imagine if it's that bad when democracies have them, how much worse will it be when autocratic theocracies have them as well.

Ardillaun · 28-11-2020 11:29pm

Cordell wrote: »

Seriously?
Ok then, just imagine if it's that bad when democracies have them, how much worse will it be when autocratic theocracies have them as well.

Take your argument to Japan and see how far you get.

Tyrannical regimes have had nukes for many decades. Result - no deaths. The question is whether the Iranians are suicidal. The evidence suggests otherwise. They may talk about Death to America but any moves against the Great Satan are carefully calibrated.

Ardillaun · 28-11-2020 11:34pm

Gatling wrote: »

Like accidentally sinking a model aircraft carrier by mistake before they film they themselves blowing it up.

US soldiers in Iraq are highly vulnerable. Let’s hope cooler heads prevail in Tehran.

Gatling · 28-11-2020 11:52pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

US soldiers in Iraq are highly vulnerable. Let’s hope cooler heads prevail in Tehran.

Not so much now they supplied multilayer defence systems to their bases after the last attack ,any attack will likely only kill Iraqi civilians again ,yes Iran has forces in Iraq itself but I reckon they thread a fine line ,they could end up fighting the Iraqis they claim to be protecting .
They could have a go at Israel something they like talking about but never even come close to making a move on them,
If it's trump aiming to bog down biden with a war he didn't start sense might prevail .
But by all accounts Mohsen Fakhrizadeh was top of the Israeli government kill list for years
Plausible deniability ? For America

froog · 29-11-2020 1:17am

this has the potential to get messy fast. Soleimani taken out in january, now their top nuclear guy.

the iranian public will demand blood. and who knows what trump is liable to do in his current mental state.

scary.

29-11-2020 1:24am

grassylawn wrote: »

On the command of Churchill, and whichever US president it was who made the mistake of listening to him.
The Shah was ousted in 1979 by the current ruling group of religious extremists.
Perhaps reparations are in order.
Letting them develop nuclear weapons is not though.

"Letting them"? The thing is that it's inevitable that they will develop Nuclear capabilities, either by themselves or through links with other countries. It's only a matter of time. Years rather than decades.

I find the whole situation interesting because it's widely acknowledged that western interference in the M.East, has given rise to much of the hatred directed at western countries. We're all judged as being guilty for what the US, Britain, France, etc have done in the region.. and people will often say that we should keep our hands out of the region, but then the issue of Iran comes along, and those comments are left to slide into the background.

I'll be honest and admit that I don't see a Nuclear Iran as being a major threat to world peace. They've been content to support various terrorist organisations, but haven't been terribly interested in putting their country into direct conflict.

This murder will generate a wave of hatred, and justify the positions of the extremists who want a real war with the west... and each time, western nations interfere in Iranian affairs, we'll see further support rise for actual involvement by Iran on a national level in taking action. Which would be bad.. because it would unify the nation behind those wanting attacks on Europe (since the US is harder to reach)

If we ever want to get out of the M.East, at some time, we're going to have to accept that Iran will be a nuclear power. And I, for one, think it's high time we get out... or commit to going in and staying there. This half-assed BS is setting us all up for a world of hurt later.

Saralace · 29-11-2020 1:26am

The New York Times speculated Saturday that the main goal of the assassination was actually to impede the incoming US administration’s ability to reach a diplomatic solution to the conflict with Iran. US President-elect Joe Biden has stated his intention to reenter the 2015 nuclear deal with Tehran that has largely disintegrated since President Donald Trump left the deal in 2018.
Fitzpatrick, a former State Department nonproliferation official, tweeted: “The reason for assassinating Fakhrizadeh wasn’t to impede Iran’s war potential, it was to impede diplomacy.”

Amos Yadlin, the former head of Israeli military intelligence and the current head of the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) think tank, told Channel 12: “Whoever made this decision knows that there are 55 more days in which the White House has someone who sees the Iranian threat the way they do… Biden is a different story.”

Yadlin also speculated that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s visit to Israel earlier this month may have been connected to Friday’s killing.Apparently Pompeo didn’t come here to drink wine at the Psagot winery,” he said dryly.

boardise · 29-11-2020 1:41am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Mullingar is the Tehran of Ireland

Especially since the tallaght ban took over.

Donald Trump · 29-11-2020 2:06am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Mullingar is the Tehran of Ireland

That's not really fair. There would be differences between the two.

Granted, one is run by theocratic fundamentalist and uneducated savages that lock their women up. Torture is commonplace and inbreeding is rife. There is an ingrained vile hatred and distrust of people who are not from there. The few people that I have met who were mental enough to have actually ventured there told me of dreadful stories and having being scarred permanently from what they saw there. In particular, any American who goes there is taking the huge risk that they won't get back out alive.

Whereas Tehran, on the other hand, is probably grand. Just has less pubs.

Eric Cartman · 29-11-2020 3:16am

Readying themselves for joe bidens war on iran.

The 4 years of peace they had under trump shattered

Ardillaun · 29-11-2020 7:23am

I don’t want to see Iran get nuclear weapons. Quite apart from its religious fundamentalism, it is a powder keg of ethnic rivalries that could explode any time. However, I do understand why the mullahs object to the double standard on Israel’s nukes. They are a constant threat to Iran and yet the Americans refuse to admit their very existence. This is an absurd situation.

Let’s take a more personal example. If somebody on my street who hates me acquired two hundred assault rifles, I would be concerned, even more so if he denied that he had bought the guns. He might be a law-abiding person otherwise but that is zero comfort to me. Imagine if I go to the police and they refuse to investigate the problem and tell me I’m imagining things. What would be a reasonable thing for me to do next?

grassylawn · 29-11-2020 8:51am

Saralace wrote: »

The New York Times speculated Saturday that the main goal of the assassination was actually to impede the incoming US administration’s ability to reach a diplomatic solution to the conflict with Iran. US President-elect Joe Biden has stated his intention to reenter the 2015 nuclear deal with Tehran that has largely disintegrated since President Donald Trump left the deal in 2018.
Fitzpatrick, a former State Department nonproliferation official, tweeted: “The reason for assassinating Fakhrizadeh wasn’t to impede Iran’s war potential, it was to impede diplomacy.”

Amos Yadlin, the former head of Israeli military intelligence and the current head of the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) think tank, told Channel 12: “Whoever made this decision knows that there are 55 more days in which the White House has someone who sees the Iranian threat the way they do… Biden is a different story.”

Yadlin also speculated that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s visit to Israel earlier this month may have been connected to Friday’s killing.Apparently Pompeo didn’t come here to drink wine at the Psagot winery,” he said dryly.

Also Iran were reportedly trying to influence the election, and any meddling would have been certainly to support Biden. I reckon Trump would like revenge for that.

Cheerful Spring2 · 29-11-2020 11:28am

Saralace wrote: »

Amos Yadlin, the former head of Israeli military intelligence and the current head of the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) think tank, told Channel 12: “Whoever made this decision knows that there are 55 more days in which the White House has someone who sees the Iranian threat the way they do… Biden is a different story.”

Jan a long time away and nobody knows if this is the last action to come before then?

Iran in a tough position since they have announced a hit team linked with Israel killed this scientist. Do they let that slide and just wait for President Biden to enter office?

The next option, Respond and risk war with Israel?

Fact: it's Israel and not the US that organised the hit: this is if the intelligence sources are accurate. Makes it much harder for Iranian moderates to call for calm here. Israel is now sending, or placing people inside Iran to kill high society Iran officials. Iran mostly likely will revenge the event, in what form, time will show. The revenge could be days, weeks, away.

Striking Israel more complicated for due to geographical distance. The may use their proxies here to strike back?

Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

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