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Shooting season suspended due to lockdown?

12467…11

Comments

  • #92
    J.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Tipperary farmer brings legal challenge over level 5 pheasant-shooting ban

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40078691.html?fbclid=IwAR2VE16mXcZVLnShYI9J5z1d-d2RdYMvcr06cw_Qd9yt_mWF8MN3paG2N4Q


  • #93
    berettaman
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    Fair play, took balls to bring the challenge.


    Now, if Level 5 is not lifted or there is still no shooting under level 3 or 4 there is already one foot in the High Court.


    We need to keep at the politicians. If there is a cabinet meeting about what to reinstate after Dec 1st Pheasant Hunting needs to be first on the list. Keep the pressure on them.;)


  • #94
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    berettaman wrote: »
    Fair play, took balls to bring the challenge.


    Now, if Level 5 is not lifted or there is still no shooting under level 3 or 4 there is already one foot in the High Court.


    We need to keep at the politicians. If there is a cabinet meeting about what to reinstate after Dec 1st Pheasant Hunting needs to be first on the list. Keep the pressure on them.;)

    All recreational hunting if you please!!!!


  • #95
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Who is funding it ? A grand day out in the High court is not cheap.


  • #96
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    That was just a hearing,it wasn't a full-blown court case. So somewhat cheaper I belive.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • #97
    berettaman
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    tudderone wrote: »
    Who is funding it ? A grand day out in the High court is not cheap.


    The case was supported by the NARGC. ;)


  • #98
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    Judge seems to have deliberately deferred it until December.


  • #99
    Got him!
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Got him!


    J.R. wrote: »
    Tipperary farmer brings legal challenge over level 5 pheasant-shooting ban

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40078691.html?fbclid=IwAR2VE16mXcZVLnShYI9J5z1d-d2RdYMvcr06cw_Qd9yt_mWF8MN3paG2N4Q
    I was under the impression that all game shooting was suspended not just that which came in to season on Nov 1st.


  • #100
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    tudderone wrote: »
    Who is funding it ? A grand day out in the High court is not cheap.

    If this gentleman is funding it himself then I would respectfully suggest that he sets up a gofundme page. I'm sure a lot of shooters would like to assist him as we would all benefit if he wins. Although unfortunately, at the speed our legal system moves, covid-19 and restrictions will be a distant memory before this gets a full hearing.


  • #101
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Senator Joe O'Reilly raised this topic in the Seanad this afternoon.


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  • #102
    deeksofdoom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    If this gentleman is funding it himself then I would respectfully suggest that he sets up a gofundme page. I'm sure a lot of shooters would like to assist him as we would all benefit if he wins. Although unfortunately, at the speed our legal system moves, covid-19 and restrictions will be a distant memory before this gets a full hearing.

    I don't think he is funding it himself, he's on the NARGC executive so I would guess he is being funded by them for this.


  • #103
    J.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Got him! wrote: »
    I was under the impression that all game shooting was suspended not just that which came in to season on Nov 1st.

    When the ban came in the Gardaí specifically mentioned pheasant shooting - everything followed on from that...so I'd guess that is the angle they are challenging.

    Garda Website

    What about pheasant shooting during Level 5?

    Pheasant shooting season begins on Sunday 1st November. This normally involves shooting club members travelling to pheasant shoots around the country, frequently in groups, and is regarded as sport shooting.

    Under the current regulations (SI 448), sporting events must be organised under the structure/ licence of a national governing body, funded by Sport Ireland. As such, sport shooting is prohibited in any other circumstances.

    Recreational hunting does not fall under any of the exemptions allowed for exercise or sporting events. It has also been clarified that recreational hunting does not come under any permissible exemptions for travel outside of the home.

    Shooting of vermin (rats/foxes/crows) is permissible as an essential support service to the farming and agriculture profession.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our-departments/office-of-corporate-communications/news-media/what-about-pheasant-shooting-during-level-5-.html


  • #104
    berettaman
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    J.R. wrote: »
    When the ban came in the Gardaí specifically mentioned pheasant shooting - everything followed on from that...so I'd guess that is the angle they are challenging.

    Garda Website

    What about pheasant shooting during Level 5?

    Pheasant shooting season begins on Sunday 1st November. This normally involves shooting club members travelling to pheasant shoots around the country, frequently in groups, and is regarded as sport shooting.

    Under the current regulations (SI 448), sporting events must be organised under the structure/ licence of a national governing body, funded by Sport Ireland. As such, sport shooting is prohibited in any other circumstances.

    Recreational hunting does not fall under any of the exemptions allowed for exercise or sporting events. It has also been clarified that recreational hunting does not come under any permissible exemptions for travel outside of the home.

    Shooting of vermin (rats/foxes/crows) is permissible as an essential support service to the farming and agriculture profession.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our-departments/office-of-corporate-communications/news-media/what-about-pheasant-shooting-during-level-5-.html


    I think it is very important to do as much vermin shooting as possible during the lockdown.


    I have been told that an anti hunting neighbour is "dying to call the guards"..if she hears a bang.

    So far I have 3 magpies and two grey crows nailed. The Gardai will soon get tired of the old bag ringing them..:D


  • #105
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    berettaman wrote: »
    I think it is very important to do as much vermin shooting as possible during the lockdown.


    I have been told that an anti hunting neighbour is "dying to call the guards"..if she hears a bang.

    So far I have 3 magpies and two grey crows nailed. The Gardai will soon get tired of the old bag ringing them..:D

    I have never seen as many rats running around as during this virus, including in the flowerbeds outside a well known shopping centre. They didn't seem to be too bothered by people either.


  • #106
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    tudderone wrote: »
    I have never seen as many rats running around as during this virus, including in the flowerbeds outside a well known shopping centre. They didn't seem to be too bothered by people either.

    2 legged rats? :D


  • #107
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    tudderone wrote: »
    I have never seen as many rats running around as during this virus, including in the flowerbeds outside a well known shopping centre. They didn't seem to be too bothered by people either.





    Rats are fierce plenty this year.


  • #108
    berettaman
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    Doctors room ghost wrote: »
    Rats are fierce plenty this year.


    I have been using my Larsen traps with some dog nuts in the call bird compartment. Rats every night. air rifle every morning.
    No end to them yet.:D
    Something to do while waiting for the season to start.


  • #109
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    berettaman wrote: »
    I think it is very important to do as much vermin shooting as possible during the lockdown.


    I have been told that an anti hunting neighbour is "dying to call the guards"..if she hears a bang.

    So far I have 3 magpies and two grey crows nailed. The Gardai will soon get tired of the old bag ringing them..:D

    The young fella is out lamping foxes at a rate of knots. Has the added benefit of discouraging deer poachers as well.


  • #110
    J.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Country Sports Ireland

    Extension to Pheasant Shooting Season Receives Support in Seanad

    Country Sports Ireland Call for Extension of Shooting Season for Pheasants Receives Support in Seanad
    Country Sports Ireland was bitterly disappointed with the rececent Irish govenment decision to prohibit the shooting of pheasants until at least 2nd December - due to what we believe was a misunderstanding of the regulations within Level 5 of the Plan for Living with Covid-19 as they relate to shooting sports.
    We opposed this action at the very highest levels in government but it quickly became clear that the main parties in government would not consider changing their decision or offering any kind of exemption. In an effort to minimise the impact of these unfair regulations we subsequently called for an extension to the shooting season for pheasants in February 2021 for all those clubs and organised game shoots who released pheasants during 2020 to compensate for the time lost.
    We have been inundated with messages of support for this strategy from within the shooting sports community. We have also had messages of support from many politicians and were pleased that to have the matter raised by Senator Joe O'Reilly in Seanad Eireann yesterday.
    Under the Wildlife Act 1976 the Minister for Housing, Local Government & Heritage is empowered to grant licences which permit the hunting of pen reared pheasants during the month of February. Pheasants are not a native species, they are polygamous (don't pair up) and breed much later in the year so shooting in the February has no negative impact on their conservation status.
    We are also asking all those clubs and organised game shoots who released pheasants during 2020 and who would welcome the opportunity to shoot pheasants until the end of February 2021 to contact their local TD as a matter of urgency. We also respect the views of anyone who doesn't wish to shoot in February and of course they will be able to exercise that personal choice but given the exceptional circumstances many groups involved in rearing, releasing and shooting pheasants find themselves in this year we believe the opportunity to shoot in February is important.


  • #111
    Got him!
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Got him!


    J.R. wrote: »
    Country Sports Ireland

    Extension to Pheasant Shooting Season Receives Support in Seanad

    Country Sports Ireland Call for Extension of Shooting Season for Pheasants Receives Support in Seanad
    Country Sports Ireland was bitterly disappointed with the rececent Irish govenment decision to prohibit the shooting of pheasants until at least 2nd December - due to what we believe was a misunderstanding of the regulations within Level 5 of the Plan for Living with Covid-19 as they relate to shooting sports.
    We opposed this action at the very highest levels in government but it quickly became clear that the main parties in government would not consider changing their decision or offering any kind of exemption. In an effort to minimise the impact of these unfair regulations we subsequently called for an extension to the shooting season for pheasants in February 2021 for all those clubs and organised game shoots who released pheasants during 2020 to compensate for the time lost.
    We have been inundated with messages of support for this strategy from within the shooting sports community. We have also had messages of support from many politicians and were pleased that to have the matter raised by Senator Joe O'Reilly in Seanad Eireann yesterday.
    Under the Wildlife Act 1976 the Minister for Housing, Local Government & Heritage is empowered to grant licences which permit the hunting of pen reared pheasants during the month of February. Pheasants are not a native species, they are polygamous (don't pair up) and breed much later in the year so shooting in the February has no negative impact on their conservation status.
    We are also asking all those clubs and organised game shoots who released pheasants during 2020 and who would welcome the opportunity to shoot pheasants until the end of February 2021 to contact their local TD as a matter of urgency. We also respect the views of anyone who doesn't wish to shoot in February and of course they will be able to exercise that personal choice but given the exceptional circumstances many groups involved in rearing, releasing and shooting pheasants find themselves in this year we believe the opportunity to shoot in February is important.
    I'm as put off as any other shooting man about the current restrictions but do not agree with an extension to the season due to lockdown.
    Permission can be sought to extend shooting on commercial shoots into Feb and has always been the case as far as I know, but a general extension to allow birds in the wild to be shot will only serve to decimate the stock of wild birds for next season.
    Any extension to shooting wild birds is' penny wise and pound foolish' in my opinion.
    If you have an itchy trigger finger after Jan 31st, focus your energy on vermin control and give the wild birds an even better change for the following season.


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  • #112
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Would be better to push for legal clarification on the point of all game shooting within the 5 km zones rather than an extension to the season.
    As no doubt, we will have the same situation with lockdown 3,4,5,6 in the coming years.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #113
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    J.R. wrote: »
    Country Sports Ireland

    Extension to Pheasant Shooting Season Receives Support in Seanad

    Country Sports Ireland Call for Extension of Shooting Season for Pheasants Receives Support in Seanad
    Country Sports Ireland was bitterly disappointed with the rececent Irish govenment decision to prohibit the shooting of pheasants until at least 2nd December - due to what we believe was a misunderstanding of the regulations within Level 5 of the Plan for Living with Covid-19 as they relate to shooting sports.
    We opposed this action at the very highest levels in government but it quickly became clear that the main parties in government would not consider changing their decision or offering any kind of exemption. In an effort to minimise the impact of these unfair regulations we subsequently called for an extension to the shooting season for pheasants in February 2021 for all those clubs and organised game shoots who released pheasants during 2020 to compensate for the time lost.
    We have been inundated with messages of support for this strategy from within the shooting sports community. We have also had messages of support from many politicians and were pleased that to have the matter raised by Senator Joe O'Reilly in Seanad Eireann yesterday.
    Under the Wildlife Act 1976 the Minister for Housing, Local Government & Heritage is empowered to grant licences which permit the hunting of pen reared pheasants during the month of February. Pheasants are not a native species, they are polygamous (don't pair up) and breed much later in the year so shooting in the February has no negative impact on their conservation status.
    We are also asking all those clubs and organised game shoots who released pheasants during 2020 and who would welcome the opportunity to shoot pheasants until the end of February 2021 to contact their local TD as a matter of urgency. We also respect the views of anyone who doesn't wish to shoot in February and of course they will be able to exercise that personal choice but given the exceptional circumstances many groups involved in rearing, releasing and shooting pheasants find themselves in this year we believe the opportunity to shoot in February is important.

    CSI..... just to be seen to be done something having done fcuk all!!!


  • #114
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    J.R. wrote: »
    When the ban came in the Gardaí specifically mentioned pheasant shooting - everything followed on from that...so I'd guess that is the angle they are challenging.

    Garda Website

    What about pheasant shooting during Level 5?

    Pheasant shooting season begins on Sunday 1st November. This normally involves shooting club members travelling to pheasant shoots around the country, frequently in groups, and is regarded as sport shooting.

    Under the current regulations (SI 448), sporting events must be organised under the structure/ licence of a national governing body, funded by Sport Ireland. As such, sport shooting is prohibited in any other circumstances.

    Recreational hunting does not fall under any of the exemptions allowed for exercise or sporting events. It has also been clarified that recreational hunting does not come under any permissible exemptions for travel outside of the home.

    Shooting of vermin (rats/foxes/crows) is permissible as an essential support service to the farming and agriculture profession.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our-departments/office-of-corporate-communications/news-media/what-about-pheasant-shooting-during-level-5-.html

    The Garda website is wrong, that’s all there is to it. SI 448-2000 doesn’t say what the guards are reading into it. The advice from NARGC is complete bull excrement. You can walk your dog within 5k and take your gun to shoot crows within 5k, but you can’t take your dog and gun together, according to the NARGC. While they are saying that to members, they are in the High Court arguing that the law doesn’t say that at all.
    The government is not the problem, it is some eejit writing the pages for the Garda website, that’s all. Some gun clubs are running scared, some are leaving it up to members and some are shooting. Meanwhile the farmers sons with vermin licenses who are not in clubs are having the season of a lifetime. I have been shooting for over forty years, I have never been so pissed off with the bunch of old Nanas in NARGC and my local club.


  • #115
    berettaman
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    JCJCJC wrote: »
    The Garda website is wrong, that’s all there is to it. SI 448-2000 doesn’t say what the guards are reading into it. The advice from NARGC is complete bull excrement. You can walk your dog within 5k and take your gun to shoot crows within 5k, but you can’t take your dog and gun together, according to the NARGC. While they are saying that to members, they are in the High Court arguing that the law doesn’t say that at all.
    The government is not the problem, it is some eejit writing the pages for the Garda website, that’s all. Some gun clubs are running scared, some are leaving it up to members and some are shooting. Meanwhile the farmers sons with vermin licenses who are not in clubs are having the season of a lifetime. I have been shooting for over forty years, I have never been so pissed off with the bunch of old Nanas in NARGC and my local club.


    Yeah, sure the NARGC , a National sporting Organisation would not have received legal advice at all, would have just had a quick glance at the SI and just trotted out any old rubbish?:rolleyes:


    Give me a break. Every angle of this has been looked at.



    Also I am delighted that there are so many NaNas shooting in your area, great for old folks to get out!:D


  • #116
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    berettaman wrote: »
    Yeah, sure the NARGC , a National sporting Organisation would not have received legal advice at all, would have just had a quick glance at the SI and just trotted out any old rubbish?:rolleyes:


    Give me a break. Every angle of this has been looked at.



    Also I am delighted that there are so many NaNas shooting in your area, great for old folks to get out!:D
    Yes, the NARGC did get a Senior Counsel’s opinion, I have seen it, and it confirmed that rough shooting did not contravene SI 448 of 2020. Despite that competent advice, they instructed clubs not to shoot. Whether they even have that authority is a good question. The more intelligent thing would have been to make the opinion available to every member, with advice to give it to any Garda who challenges you. No District Court Judge is going to make a finding contrary to. senior’s opinion. Now go back to rolling your eyes, and keep your hands out of your pockets.


  • #117
    berettaman
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    JCJCJC wrote: »
    Yes, the NARGC did get a Senior Counsel’s opinion, I have seen it, and it confirmed that rough shooting did not contravene SI 448 of 2020. Despite that competent advice, they instructed clubs not to shoot. Whether they even have that authority is a good question. The more intelligent thing would have been to make the opinion available to every member, with advice to give it to any Garda who challenges you. No District Court Judge is going to make a finding contrary to. senior’s opinion. Now go back to rolling your eyes, and keep your hands out of your pockets.


    It would be really irresponsible for them to tell the clubs to ignore what is on the Garda website even though legal advice says it is wrong.

    No legal opinion will stop a Garda confiscating your guns if you are doing the wrong thing in the wrong place.


    You may be waiting a while to get them back.:rolleyes::D


  • #118
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    berettaman wrote: »
    It would be really irresponsible for them to tell the clubs to ignore what is on the Garda website even though legal advice says it is wrong.

    No legal opinion will stop a Garda confiscating your guns if you are doing the wrong thing in the wrong place.


    You may be waiting a while to get them back.:rolleyes::D



    Yes, but when has the Gardai website been holy writ ? I have had gardai telling me barefaced lies before.


  • #119
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    berettaman wrote: »
    It would be really irresponsible for them to tell the clubs to ignore what is on the Garda website even though legal advice says it is wrong.

    No legal opinion will stop a Garda confiscating your guns if you are doing the wrong thing in the wrong place.


    You may be waiting a while to get them back.:rolleyes::D

    The statutory instrument is made under a Health Act. Confiscation of your licensed firearm is not a penalty under that Act. The law is the law, not what some dope with two honours in the Garda press office, who wouldn’t know one end of a pheasant from another, thinks it is. My earlier point still stands - you can shoot crows on your own within five kilometres of home, but the NARGC say you can’t shoot a snipe or a duck if you rise one. Explain the wisdom of that to me if you can.


  • #120
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,785 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    JCJCJC wrote: »
    The statutory instrument is made under a Health Act. Confiscation of your licensed firearm is not a penalty under that Act. The law is the law, not what some dope with two honours in the Garda press office, who wouldn’t know one end of a pheasant from another, thinks it is. My earlier point still stands - you can shoot crows on your own within five kilometres of home, but the NARGC say you can’t shoot a snipe or a duck if you rise one. Explain the wisdom of that to me if you can.

    That'll be good news to the fella in east Cork that had his shotguns confiscated recently.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • #121
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    That'll be good news to the fella in east Cork that had his shotguns confiscated recently.

    Send him in to his solicitor.


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