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Lead ban

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭Eddie B


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And who is going to go and check it???Mking laws is one thing,enforcing is another.

    Ok different country, but when I was in Scotland, the guy told us that they check pretty often for lead/steel shot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Baker.22


    I understand that the issue is that the EU has designated all of the island of Ireland as a wetland, therefore nobody can shoot on the island using lead in their bullets and cartridges and pellets.

    This also has other implications as if everywhere is a wetland you cannot spread slurry on the land or have a septic tank at your house.

    I have been told the law is there but not enacted yet, probably after the Euro elections!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And who is going to go and check it???Mking laws is one thing,enforcing is another.

    #Restrict the sale of lead based ammunition to only those shooting on authorised ranges.
    That would be a lot of folks fecked as I'd say theres more out there field shooting rather than range shooting.

    #But the easier option for the powers to be is to ban the sale of lead based ammo to everyone!
    Sneaky things like banning the sale but not the use, banning the import but not the sale /use would be the chicken **** way they could do it.

    This may fizzle out and become one of those EU regs that by the time it drips down to each member state it becomes diluted, un-enforceable and impracticable?

    Many of the food safety regs are not enforced across the EU and there are vast variations in thier application.......... but unfortunately the Nanny state that Ireland is may just jump feet first into the regs as seen in other directives.

    But as a kind of contradiction to my opening, if they don't down right ban lead ammo from the shops, who indeed will actually be on the ground to enforce such regulations considering the lack of man hours invested into many of our agencies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    Npws rangers, gardai (wouldn't they love another reason to refuse a licence) and fcuk knows who else
    Let's not let it get that far

    When have you last seen a npws ranger out and about on your shooting?Ive never met one bar inside their offices in 40 years of shooting here.

    When have you met a regular Garda that knew the butt from a barrel or the difference between a cartridge and a bullet?

    Inland fisheries Ireland....Well any organisation that employs staff that parks two 60k 4wd and boat trailers on a emergency acces for search& rescue slipway in Limerick recently,and comes back to find them submerged as the Shannon is TIDAL up to Limerick...Do you think they would know lead from steel?

    Simple thing is they havent got the manpower(or brains in some cases) to be doing any of this stuff.Look we havent even heard about what we are supposed to be doing about the 2017 EU directive and CF mag capacity...So how long will it take for this to become any reality here?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Baker.22


    It’s more probable that they would just ban the sale of all lead ammunition, for some there is no other real alternative and for others the cost of the ‘non lead’ shot would be way too prohibitive, as it up to 5 times more !!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    I note on Facebook lads are saying they will stock up on lead cartridges. I guess they missed the bit where it will be an offence to have lead cartridges in your possession

    In a real world scenario I can't possibly see any judge or peace commissioner signing warrants to search the guts of let's say 85000 farms and dwellings to see if there's a single 28g lead cartridge around or for Gardai to come and inspect every address to which a gun is registered.

    On a wider level, how will you possibly control the likes of wild boar in Belgium, Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Romania etc etc....The wild free range bacon is already causing serious agricultural damage as is, without lead bullets and cartridges how will you control numbers ? Packs of hounds and spears, crossbows or the stocks of anti-personnel mines that are still lying around ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Baker.22 wrote: »
    I understand that the issue is that the EU has designated all of the island of Ireland as a wetland, therefore nobody can shoot on the island using lead in their bullets and cartridges and pellets.

    This also has other implications as if everywhere is a wetland you cannot spread slurry on the land or have a septic tank at your house.

    I have been told the law is there but not enacted yet, probably after the Euro elections!

    VRT is deemed non-compliant with EU law as well since years now. No sign of that having been implemented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    In a real world scenario I can't possibly see any judge or peace commissioner signing warrants to search the guts of let's say 85000 farms and dwellings to see if there's a single 28g lead cartridge around or for Gardai to come and inspect every address to which a gun is registered.

    On a wider level, how will you possibly control the likes of wild boar in Belgium, Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Romania etc etc....The wild free range bacon is already causing serious agricultural damage as is, without lead bullets and cartridges how will you control numbers ? Packs of hounds and spears, crossbows or the stocks of anti-personnel mines that are still lying around ?

    Lead will be banned in all ammunition, the possession of it will be illegal, except for Military and Police use, I kid you not that is what the proposal said. So I assume they will use the army and the Police.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭kay 9


    What are our options in rifle shooting? As in, what are the alternatives to lead under the copper coat or behind the ballistic tips.
    Energy and drop charts will be wildly different.
    Barrel burners is another problem possibly trying to get copper to retain the same energy down range as lead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Plenty of info from Utube, RWS/Gecco are already producing non lead bullets.
    Look up the usual suspects Field Sports Britian and its other half for some lighter information before trawling through the heavier stuff.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Lead will be banned in all ammunition, the possession of it will be illegal, except for Military and Police use, I kid you not that is what the proposal said. So I assume they will use the army and the Police.

    Which just goes to show how thick/malicious these people are who are putting this together.It might be banned,but have bans ever sorted out anything??

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    You'll have a fight on your hands when once again "our own" are working for the PTB.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭rugerfanatic


    Cass wrote: »
    You'll have a fight on your hands when once again "our own" are working for the PTB.

    Don't know about that crowd. BIG accusation Cass..............

    Been plenty of "our own" working against us & for their own monetary gain in recent years by cosying up to PTB :mad:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Don't know about that crowd. BIG accusation Cass..............
    What accusation? I made no accusation. I am stating a fact based on their own words from their own post from their pwn page.
    Lead is toxic.
    It is high time to replace lead pellets in shotgun ammunition. The amounts discharged into the environment are significant and are contributing to contamination of soils and waterbodies
    The highlighted piece shows that they agree with a lead ban which is contrary to the majority opinion of other shooting bodies, people and the community as a whole.

    So how is it an accusation?
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭JohnFitz2332


    I'm a little confused about something. I was wondering, if this lead ban was to pass, why wouldn't .22 shooters just switch to copper rounds (not the point, I know - the ban shouldn't happen at all), and I'm seeing online that even copper rounds contain lead in the primer compound. Does this mean that if this does happen, that 22s (and other small calibres I'm sure) would be completely useless?


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Baker.22


    I think some of you are missing the main point.

    No lead projectiles allowed on land which is designated as ‘wetlands ‘

    These areas have been agreed on, some selected areas in Europe and also THE COMPLETE ISLAND of IRELAND, So it will not effect many many areas in Europe but it will effect all of Ireland

    This is obviously unacceptable and this is where the possible complete ban on lead ammunition comes from.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭rugerfanatic


    Cass wrote: »
    .............So how is it an accusation?

    Just because they agree with it does that equate to the working with PTB. If that's the case most shooting organisations are in the same boat?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Just because they agree with it ..........
    Read that again, slowly. If they agree with the lead ban they are in direct opposition to the stance of the majority of the shooting community. Hence working with the PTB.

    So i'll ask again, what accusation as they have said this themselves. It's not something i made up it's on their page, in the link above.
    does that equate to the working with PTB.
    YES.

    Do you really need me to explain how being in agreement with the Goverment/EU on a lead ban reduces the level of opposition and makes it easier for them to pass such a ban?
    If that's the case most shooting organisations are in the same boat?
    How?

    What other groups, bodies, organisations, etc. from the shooting world have agreed on a complete lead ban? I wasn't aware of any others.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,323 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    I'm a little confused about something. I was wondering, if this lead ban was to pass, why wouldn't .22 shooters just switch to copper rounds (not the point, I know - the ban shouldn't happen at all), and I'm seeing online that even copper rounds contain lead in the primer compound. Does this mean that if this does happen, that 22s (and other small calibres I'm sure) would be completely useless?

    'Copper' .22 rounds are solid lead with a thin copper wash over them. You can scrape it off with your nail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And who is going to go and check it???Mking laws is one thing,enforcing is another.

    I heard another rumour and it maybe only a rumour that another idea is they will not give the licence for cartridge and bullet manufacturers to make them. That will dry up the supply of them very fast too


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I heard another rumour and it maybe only a rumour that another idea is they will not give the licence for cartridge and bullet manufacturers to make them. That will dry up the supply of them very fast too

    Well that would make more sense rather than sending people around with magnets to check our ammo.Eventually,we will just use up the lead ammo and need to use alternative to non existant lead.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Well that would make more sense rather than sending people around with magnets to check our ammo.Eventually,we will just use up the lead ammo and need to use alternative to non existant lead.

    That's only a rumour but the law being talked about is that it's an offence to have lead bullets / cartridges in your possession. That means it will take 1 or 2 poor unfortunates to be caught with lead in their possession (if it passes) and everybody else will start not using it for fear of getting caught.
    Tbh the only easy way out of this is to stop it from coming in at all. We all know the Irish government will do nothing on this unless we make enough noise. And we have the perfect platform now with elections a few days away


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    If you google alternative to lead shot,there are enough US articles in gun mags and websites extolling the virtues of non lead ammo.
    So hardly selling out.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    That's only a rumour but the law being talked about is that it's an offence to have lead bullets / cartridges

    Its not law yet nationally for a start.Its a still a consultation stage directive in the EU.So there is still time.But we do need to rattle the politicos.
    Think our biggest worry is the whole country becoming wetland under EU diktats.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    On a side issue who are the sporting right owners association
    How does one join


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    FFS!!! I think I'll change my name to "Cassandra of Troy"! The soothsayer who forsaw the whole debacle of the fall and sacking of Troy over a love affair and went into the streets of Troy proclaiming the prophecy only to be derided and ignored.:rolleyes:

    This has been on the cards since at least 2016 and I dont know how many times this has been pointed out here, to organisations,to chats in gun clubs.Did you all put in a reply to this via the EU website when it was open to public consultations for most of 2017? Did your gun club?Your national governing bodies? Or were you told "Dont worry..FACE is looking after it in Europe?" [At a time when FACE was going thru some serious intrnal turmoil itself]

    Now ,everyone is running about ,again,like headless chickens with the sky is falling squwaking.Is it finally dawning on everyone now,that if you have a gun anywhere in the EU ,if you want to keep it you need to start getting your sht together,like all in one place and squared away in a sht backpack,and start getting proactive on these issues!!

    Unless of course,you'd all like to end up like the UK,NZ,Canada,Austrailia and everywhere else that was caught swinging their dicks,when the **** got very real!! Better start getting our **** in order here people,and we had better start procting,not reacting to events or we WILL be the last generation going shooting in Ireland!:mad:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    On a side issue who are the sporting right owners association
    How does one join

    Taken from their submission to the deer management policy vision 12/10/12
    Address
    Sporting Rights Owners Association Ireland
    Lecarrow House, Spencer Harbour
    Drumkeeran, Co. Leitrim
    Phone: 071-9648960, Email: jojosch4@gmail.com

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Grizzly 45 wrote:
    This has been on the cards since at least 2016 and I dont know how many times this has been pointed out here, to organisations,to chats in gun clubs.Did you all put in a reply to this via the EU website when it was open to public consultations for most of 2017? Did your gun club?Your national governing bodies? Or were you told "Dont worry..FACE is looking after it in Europe?" [At a time when FACE was going thru some serious intrnal turmoil itself]


    Point of order
    Well now I know a few who have been working hard. They have be in discussions with the relevant agencies but were being ignored/passed off etc
    You may be of the opinion that some are running around like headless chickens but until the chickens run around the politicians ignore the issues.
    On a similar vein I was at a wildfowling club meeting last week and no one knew anything about the lead ban.
    I know they were informed because I was there when their representative was told about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,934 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Well now I know a few who have been working hard. They have be in discussions with the relevant agencies but were being ignored/passed off etc

    Exactly and thanks[?] Now ask,WHY are those who do bring these issues up being ignored or passed off by the revelant agencies??? There is this utterly horrible situation here of ignoring the blips on the radar in all aspects of Irish societies organisations,until literally there are multiple incoming missiles outside the damn window! The utter cluster fuk of 2006 pistol ban springs to mind ..It seems we can manage betimes to beat off national events,like the proposed 2015 all ban attempt,when people arent looking about to gain an upper hand over each other,or profit from it.But when it comes to EU affairs,we are utter raw amatuers.
    You may be of the opinion that some are running around like headless chickens but until the chickens run around the politicians ignore the issues.

    Why were said chickens not going to their politicans two years ago with this issue,if they had been informed and knew it was in the pipe?

    On a similar vein I was at a wildfowling club meeting last week and no one knew anything about the lead ban.
    I know they were informed because I was there when their representative was told about it

    So there is a disconnect of info right there! Members dont know,Rep does.Rep fails,ignores,wilfully witholds info on a critical matter...Bad rep.fire and replace /re elect.With authortihy comes responsibility,why is it that here that saying is seemingly excused all the time for major fuk ups?No one is ever responsible.No one ever is sanctioned for their screwups.Instead you get promoted or rewarded for your screw ups.:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭GooseB


    'Copper' .22 rounds are solid lead with a thin copper wash over them. You can scrape it off with your nail.

    Not necessarily



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