The 'women aren't funny' myth

WoolyJumper · 03-06-2018 12:09pm

lufties wrote: »

I think comparing comedians sort of dissuades from the topic a bit, as ironically I'm not into stand up bar a few like Richard proyer, George carlin, Bill Burr, even our own Tommy T. I also think Pat short is a comic genius.
Think comedy shows, all the greats, Ted, Blackadder, Only fools, Fawlty etc have been predominantly male. Perhaps its a Patriarchy thing, but women in these role probably wouldn't capture the same audience.

I mean I agree all these shows a great and very funny and I'm a big fan of Bill Burr and George Carlin...add Dave Allen to that list too. I definitely find a lot of male comedians funny too and there are a lot of very funny men in my day to day life. For me there isn't a women verse men thing. I like anything that can make me laugh and I find it in all walks of life.

I agree about those shows you mentioned. Not a lot of very funny women in them. Usually they play the "straight man" so to speak. But that's more reflective of the time they were written than anything else.

Although I have I have to disagree about Ted. I can't think of any weak links in that show. That includes Mrs Doyle. She had some great lines. "Ride me sideways was another one" is probably one of my favourite lines from that show

boombang · 03-06-2018 12:26pm

Clearly there are some strong female comic talents, but on average there clearly seem to be more successful make comedians.

I think there's possibly a difference between getting funny in company with your family and friends Vs stage/screen. Men might have the confidence to make the latter work.

I'm my experience female comics that trade on their sex/gender are the worst.

Tell me how · 03-06-2018 12:43pm

Using examples of comics from TV shows can be misleading as it is usually the writers who are more responsible for the joke than the delivery (although both are important). And I understand a lot of writers particularly on shows like SNL, are female (although I wouldn't personally use that as an example of wonderful comedy).

There certainly is a greater number if popular male comics and in real life, I have met many more funny men than women. That is not to say I haven't met funny women, just more often than not, if in a group of 6 male and 6 female, the joker will be male. I do have a very funny aunt to be fair.

One thing I do find directly influences how funny someone is is their willingness to say something that some might find offensive. I'm not necessarily saying they are rude or demeaning but not shying away from a topic because it is easier to do so. I think men are, generally, more comfortable with that and therefore are more relaxed to express themselves.

That being said, it is getting harder and harder to not offend anyone so in future, maybe we'll just have less funny people altogether.

WoolyJumper · 03-06-2018 12:45pm

boombang wrote: »

Clearly there are some strong female comic talents, but on average there clearly seem to be more successful make comedians.

I think there's possibly a difference between getting funny in company with your family and friends Vs stage/screen. Men might have the confidence to make the latter work.

I'm my experience female comics that trade on their sex/gender are the worst.

I agree that there are more successful male comedians (I don't many of them are necessarily very funny) but I don't think that has anything to do with men being more suited to the stage. Stand up was traditionally more of a mans game and its harder for women to break into that. That has changed and is still changing. Attitudes towards women have changed a lot in the past 40/30/20 and even 10 years. There are a lot of women that play on their gender but like I said earlier because it worked booking companies saw it as a safe bet so that allowed similar female comedians to work up the circuit. But female comedy is changing and becoming more diverse. So I really do think we will being seeing a lot more diverse female comedians in years to come. They already exist but people just dont know about them.

But I agree I'm not a fan of women and men (there are quiet a few) that overly play on gender/sex.

lufties · 03-06-2018 12:46pm

boombang wrote: »

Clearly there are some strong female comic talents, but on average there clearly seem to be more successful make comedians.

I think there's possibly a difference between getting funny in company with your family and friends Vs stage/screen. Men might have the confidence to make the latter work.

I'm my experience female comics that trade on their sex/gender are the worst.

On a day to day basis, I would have 'the crack' with men. But not really with women. Perhaps either gender just doesn't obv share the same experience of existence.
I feel there are a number of reasons for this, and it comes down to gender dynamics biologically speaking. Men using humour is a sign of confidence, intellect and power in the mating game. For women this is not as important, and women trade more on their looks and feminine character traits.
This is one reason in my humble opinion, as unpopular as it may sound.

Conservatory · 03-06-2018 12:52pm

Ali Wong has two very very good stand up dvd shows. At least one of them is on Netflix.

I was gonna list off a few of the quotes from it but that’ll ruin it for you.

I did however think wow a funny female stand up comedian. Maybe her husband writes her material for her though you can never tell.

If you watch the first one then the second one a lot of the jokes run from one to the other.

Tell me how · 03-06-2018 12:56pm

Conservatory wrote:

Ali Wong has two very very good stand up dvd shows. At least one of them is on Netflix.

I watched some of her and found some jokes were so obvious, you could see them sitting on the stage until she used them.

WoolyJumper · 03-06-2018 1:00pm

lufties wrote: »

On a day to day basis, I would have 'the crack' with men. But not really with women. Perhaps either gender just doesn't obv share the same experience of existence.
I feel there are a number of reasons for this, and it comes down to gender dynamics biologically speaking. Men using humour is a sign of confidence, intellect and power in the mating game. For women this is not as important, and women trade more on their looks and feminine character traits.
This is one reason in my humble opinion.

I tend to agree. A lot of women will act differently around men (straight men at least) but I think its just a societal/biological thing. Women, at least in the past were taught that comedy and intellect =/= sexy. Again I think that is something that is changing. But I still see with some of my female friends, subconsciously they act differently around men. Tends to step out of the limelight a little and let the men take the lead. It's a shame because they are hilarious.

I find some men that are funny (or who see themselves as funny) do tend to chase the joke more. I have friend who is very funny (30% of the time) but he will tell joke after joke most of them not funny and gets very annoying. I dont find a lot of women like that.

Also women are filthy and have told some of the dirtiest jokes I've heard but again many of them wouldn't make jokes like that around men. But you see it here. A lot of guys hear hate when women make "vagina jokes" It's not lady like :rolleyes:

Sleeper12 · 03-06-2018 1:01pm

I find the ladies very funny. They don't know that they are & are being serious at the time but some have me in stitches.

Conservatory · 03-06-2018 1:02pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I watched some of her and found some jokes were so obvious, you could see them sitting on the stage until she used them.

That can be said a lot of the time though for nearly anyone if you watch enough stand up you start to notice what the plan is. It’s very rare you get 3 or 4 out loads laughs from anything anymore and Ali Wong had me in stitches a lot of the time.

Grab All Association · 03-06-2018 1:10pm

Seems to be an industry focused on Amy Schumer (joke stealer) and Ellen when there’s far funnier female comedians out there.

lufties · 03-06-2018 1:14pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I find the ladies very funny. They don't know that they are & are be ser at the time but some have me in stitches.

Actually that's a very good point. I've had a few ex GFs who were very funny once you got under the surface a bit. However they weren't really aware of it.

lufties · 03-06-2018 1:28pm

Grab All Association wrote: »

Seems to be an industry focused on Amy Schumer (joke stealer) and Ellen when there’s far funnier female comedians out there.

The likes of Schumer and Chelsea handler are examples of politically aligned (politically connected in schumers case) degenerates, pushing an elitest agenda under the guise of comedy. The would never be given a platform otherwise.

lufties · 03-06-2018 1:47pm

WoolyJumper wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

On a day to day basis, I would have 'the crack' with men. But not really with women. Perhaps either gender just doesn't obv share the same experience of existence.
I feel there are a number of reasons for this, and it comes down to gender dynamics biologically speaking. Men using humour is a sign of confidence, intellect and power in the mating game. For women this is not as important, and women trade more on their looks and feminine character traits.
This is one reason in my humble opinion.

I tend to agree. A lot of women will act differently around men (straight men at least) but I think its just a societal/biological thing. Women, at least in the past were taught that comedy and intellect =/= sexy. Again I think that is something that is changing. But I still see with some of my female friends, subconsciously they act differently around men. Tends to step out of the limelight a little and let the men take the lead. It's a shame because they are hilarious.

I find some men that are funny (or who see themselves as funny) do tend to chase the joke more. I have friend who is very funny (30% of the time) but he will tell joke after joke most of them not funny and gets very annoying. I dont find a lot of women like that.

Also women are filthy and have told some of the dirtiest jokes I've heard but again many of them wouldn't make jokes like that around men. But you see it here. A lot of guys hear hate when women make "vagina jokes" It's not lady like :rolleyes:

Points well made. So far I get the impression that women are as funny as men. However, due to societal and mating reasons the don't/won't show it as openly as us men.

LLMMLL · 03-06-2018 2:06pm

lufties wrote: »

I agree that its a tough topic, because its uncomfortable for some, perhaps like an unspoken truth.

It’s more of a spoken untruth. I hear it all the time.

Some men just don’t expect women to be funny and that colours their experience. For instance, I’ve a work friend who trots this out a lot. He also thinks women can’t write good novels. I gave him a book by my favourite writer (female) that seemed up his alley. Grimaced his way through the whole thing and announced he didn’t like it. I thought fair enough, maybe he just doesn’t like her writing.

Then he gets really into this book by an author whose first name was Robin. Best book ever according to him. Halfway through he looks up the author online and imagine his shock when it turns out to be a woman.

It’s pretty striking that the only book he ever enjoyed by a woman was one where he didn’t know it was a woman writing it in the first place.

The same thing applies to comedy. If you’re in the mindset that women aren’t funny then you’re not going to enjoy a woman comedian, no matter how funny she is. Standup is very mood dependent anyway, most of the time you have to really like the performer in advance to find them funny.

As for the whole “women comedians just talk about their vaginas” crap, which same friend also trots out every so often: he went to see Louis CK in dublin a while back and his favourite joke was something about Louis seeing his dads “big Mexican dick” at a urinal as a child. I saw Dave chapelles Netflix special recently. Talked about his dick. It’s a bit of a double standard.

lufties · 03-06-2018 2:12pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

I agree that its a tough topic, because its uncomfortable for some, perhaps like an unspoken truth.

It’s more of a spoken untruth. I hear it all the time.

Some men just don’t expect women to be funny and that colours their experience. For instance, I’ve a work friend who trots this out a lot. He also thinks women can’t write good novels. I gave him a book by my favourite writer (female) that seemed up his alley. Grimaced his way through the whole thing and announced he didn’t like it. I thought fair enough, maybe he just doesn’t like her writing.

Then he gets really into this book by an author whose first name was Robin. Best book ever according to him. Halfway through he looks up the author online and imagine his shock when it turns out to be a woman.

It’s pretty striking that the only book he ever enjoyed by a woman was one where he didn’t know it was a woman writing it in the first place.

The same thing applies to comedy. If you’re in the mindset that women aren’t funny then you’re not going to enjoy a woman comedian, no matter how funny she is. Standup is very mood dependent anyway, most of the time you have to really like the performer in advance to find them funny.

As for the whole “women comedians just talk about their vaginas” crap, which same friend also trots out every so often: he went to see Louis CK in dublin a while back and his favourite joke was something about Louis seeing his dads “big Mexican dick” at a urinal as a child. I saw Dave chapelles Netflix special recently. Talked about his dick. It’s a bit of a double standard.

We could pick all day at what abouts, like someone who's granny smoke all her life, lived till she was 102. The fact remains though that by and large, most would agree that men are funnier.
I remember in my schooldays, there was a big group of girls that used laugh their holes off at their mate who acted goofy around them (falling over etc). Us lads who were actually funny intelligently, used to be going WTF?? It just seemed so contrived and unfunny for us.

LLMMLL · 03-06-2018 2:19pm

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I tend to agree. A lot of women will act differently around men (straight men at least) but I think its just a societal/biological thing. Women, at least in the past were taught that comedy and intellect =/= sexy. Again I think that is something that is changing. But I still see with some of my female friends, subconsciously they act differently around men. Tends to step out of the limelight a little and let the men take the lead. It's a shame because they are hilarious.

I find some men that are funny (or who see themselves as funny) do tend to chase the joke more. I have friend who is very funny (30% of the time) but he will tell joke after joke most of them not funny and gets very annoying. I dont find a lot of women like that.

Also women are filthy and have told some of the dirtiest jokes I've heard but again many of them wouldn't make jokes like that around men. But you see it here. A lot of guys hear hate when women make "vagina jokes" It's not lady like :rolleyes:

This 100%. I’ve two female cousins who are both married and tend to see them at family weddings. In big group conversations they tend not to joke much while their husbands pounce on every little possible joke that could be made. Sometimes we’d be talking and there’s some incredibly obvious not very funny joke that could be made “oh YOU would say that hahaha” or something and I’m just waiting to see which husband will go for it.

LLMMLL · 03-06-2018 2:24pm

lufties wrote: »

We could pick all day at what abouts, like someone who's granny smoke all her life, lived till she was 102. The fact remains though that by and large, most would agree that men are funnier.
I remember in my schooldays, there was a big group of girls that used laugh their holes off at their mate who acted goofy around them (falling over etc). Us lads who were actually funny intelligently, used to be going WTF?? It just seemed so contrived and unfunny for us.

I completely disagree on that point.

I used to have an hour commute into Dublin and many times would get stuck sitting in front of a group of teenagers. The pattern I noticed was:

All male group: mostly make “references” which is basically repeating something Will in the inbetweeners said or a Simpsons joke.

All female group: genuinely creative humour about their day to day lives. I remember one group had me in stitches they were genuinely hilarious.

But humour is subjective. Maybe you and your friends were what I’d consider funny. Or maybe you were just making references to other funny people thinking it was intellectual. But I don’t think you should be the decider of whether you and your friends were funnier than another group of people.

lufties · 03-06-2018 2:35pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

We could pick all day at what abouts, like someone who's granny smoke all her life, lived till she was 102. The fact remains though that by and large, most would agree that men are funnier.
I remember in my schooldays, there was a big group of girls that used laugh their holes off at their mate who acted goofy around them (falling over etc). Us lads who were actually funny intelligently, used to be going WTF?? It just seemed so contrived and unfunny for us.

I completely disagree on that point.

I used to have an hour commute into Dublin and many times would get stuck sitting in front of a group of teenagers. The pattern I noticed was:

All male group: mostly make “references” which is basically repeating something Will in the inbetweeners said or a Simpsons joke.

All female group: genuinely creative humour about their day to day lives. I remember one group had me in stitches they were genuinely hilarious.

But humour is subjective. Maybe you and your friends were what I’d consider funny. Or maybe you were just making references to other funny people thinking it was intellectual. But I don’t think you should be the decider of whether you and your friends were funnier than another group of people.

I'll take that point. Different experiences I guess. In my school days some of the lads made reference to Anchorman, and used to think they were hilarious saying phrases like 'stop the lights', and 'calm it down now lads' over and over again. It still seemed funnier than falling over pretending to be goofy.

Conservatory · 03-06-2018 2:41pm

Dudes,
You are basing whether women female stand up comedians are funny on whether female teenagers are funny. No teenagers are funny.

lufties · 03-06-2018 2:50pm

Conservatory wrote: »

Dudes,
You are basing whether women female stand up comedians are funny on whether female teenagers are funny. No teenagers are funny.

Good idea for my next thread

razorblunt · 03-06-2018 3:11pm

Katherine Ryan is a good stand up, she's completely over exposed now though, she's the female Jimmy Carr, she appears on absolutely every panel show on TV now.

I like Sara Pascoe, Ilza Shlesinger and Ellie Taylor (who seems to be focused on tv more too).

SilverPenney · 03-06-2018 3:37pm

Comedy regularly comes from lived experience and attempts to relate to people who have also gone through/are going these experiences. As a fella, I can understand how some female stand-ups aren't funny at all to me, because I simply can't relate to their perspective. An Irish person born and raised in Thurles is more likely to enjoy D'unbelievables than a Pole, as they can easily relate the jokes to their own life.

lufties · 03-06-2018 3:52pm

SilverPenney wrote: »

Comedy regularly comes from lived experience and attempts to relate to people who have also gone through/are going these experiences. As a fella, I can understand how some female stand-ups aren't funny at all to me, because I simply can't relate to their perspective. An Irish person born and raised in Thurles is more likely to enjoy D'unbelievables than a Pole, as they can easily relate the jokes to their own life.

Very true, Pat Shortt is very underrated imo. Saying that tho, there are generally 'funny' people that make everyone laugh. I think Irish people especially have a natural humour to us. Paradoxically though, in Australia I found the Irish there to be obnoxious, clannish, cynical , and angry.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 3:56pm

Jennifer Saunders hosting HIGNFY. Just flawless comedy timing!

I think it’s just stereotyping to the point it became cultural. It’ll improve as you get more female stand ups doing the rounds and that is happening.

EPAndlee · 03-06-2018 10:50pm

Was watching Whitney Cummings a few nights ago except for odd funny joke, it wasn't great. I think Katherine Ryan is funny along with Sara Pascoe. Nina Conti is funny when she interacts with the audience

Tell me how · 03-06-2018 10:55pm

EdgeCase wrote:

Jennifer Saunders hosting HIGNFY. Just flawless comedy timing!

That's pre-recorded. And scripted to some degree.

The Crowman · 04-06-2018 9:00pm

WoolyJumper wrote: »

If I think about comedic actors then there a lot of women I find funny. Any of the women that have come from SNL in recent years have been funny (arguably more funny than the men on that show) I know SNL isn't that funny but it has had a few great sketches in the last few years and they have involved the women. Kristen Wigg, Mia Rudolf, Amy Phoeler, Tina Fey, Aidy Bryant, Cecily Strong, Kate McKinnon, Vanessa Bryer. All very funny actors and writers both in and out of SNL.

There is a also a lot of funny female stand ups. I might see a female stand up routine that is absolutely hilarious but then see another one by them that is not funny at all. I think that is the same for all comedians though. Its just when you have the expectation that women are not funny you will hone in on the not so funny more. Michell Wolf's recent white house roast was hilarious. Cecily Strong did one a few years before which was also very funny. Katherine Ryan has done great stand up. Sarah Millican, Nina Conti, Sara Pascoe all have done good (as well as bad) stand up routines. Dina Hasham is a comedian I discovered very recently. Not very well know but very funny. Saw a video roast battle video recently where she went up against a guy. While he was just mean she was genuinely funny.

I also happen to like Maeve Higgins so that might undermine everything I just said :pac: I just don't think people get her subtle awkward story telling comedy :cool:

And sure there is a lot of vagina jokes in female comedy but I think that is more the industry. When one woman makes some jokes like that and the industry find it works then similar comedian will get more work because they will see it as a safe bet. But I think its changing. I think we will start to see a lot more funny female comedians coming up over the next few years with different styles of comedy.

There's nothing to get.

The Crowman · 04-06-2018 9:08pm

lufties wrote: »

On a day to day basis, I would have 'the crack' with men. But not really with women. Perhaps either gender just doesn't obv share the same experience of existence.
I feel there are a number of reasons for this, and it comes down to gender dynamics biologically speaking. Men using humour is a sign of confidence, intellect and power in the mating game. For women this is not as important, and women trade more on their looks and feminine character traits.
This is one reason in my humble opinion, as unpopular as it may sound.

That's what Christopher Hitchens thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7izJggqCoA

ligerdub · 04-06-2018 9:15pm

_Brian wrote: »

Rachel Paris is very funny.

Terrible shout. She's absolutely dreadful. Of the many adjectives I'm thinking of for her, "very funny" is not one of them.

The 'women aren't funny' myth

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