Overtaking lane hogger

CiniO · 07-10-2012 3:57pm

djimi wrote: »

It doesnt matter if there was somewhere to pull in or not; the point is that he looked to all the world like he was going to stop. The police put on their lights, he signaled to the right and slowed down.

I would have said that had the motorway been busy then the best thing the truck could have done was to keep going. He was already doing only 40mph at the time; if he slows down further then he creates a hazard in two of the three lanes, rather than just one as it would have otherwise been.

In busy traffic the car being pulled over and the police would have just had to carry on until it was safe to pull over and slow down. This should not have required other road users to stop the traffic to accomodate them.

Exactly. That car shouldn't start slowing down in the first place when he sad flashing light, and just change lanes to most left and eventually pull over.
But what in case of breakdown or flat tyre.
If your car brakes down on overtaking lane, how are you meant to come back to the left, if you can't accelerate, and traffic on the left is not willing to slow down?
You will eventually stop in the middle of motorway, causing extremally dangerous situation.

In this case the middle lane was empty; the car and police could have moved into the center while the truck went past on the left and there would have been zero danger to anyone involved.

Cars are permitted to remain in the outside lane until it is safe to merge back into the driving lane. There is nothing in law that states that the cars in the driving lane must alter their position or speed to accomodate a car merging back in from the overtaking lane.

Of course there is - prohibition to overtake on the left.

People who really think that prohibition of undetaking applies only to situations where you change lane from right to left and accelerate to pass someone on the left, really miss the whole concept.
On the motorway (except from situation where there is a traffic jam) is is prohibited to pass anyone on the left side, no matter what's the reason for doing it.

I dont see passing a car that is about to stop or that is looking to pull in off the main carraigeway as undertaking. Perhaps our definitions differ.

Thay definitely do differ.

Yes, because by doing anything other than continuing on would have created an even more dangerous situation. In this instance, given that there was no traffic, and that the middle lane was empty, the truck driver took the best course of action to ensure that the situation passed safely. I really dont see how you can argue otherwise; that him slowing needlessly to dangerously low speeds on a motorway would have been the safer option.

I actually never said that truck driver didn't take the best action possible.
What I said that he broke the law, and possibly could be prosecuted.
Also that if slowing down without slamming on the brakes was possible, he should have done it.

Toyotafanboi · 07-10-2012 4:04pm

would you not give it a rest CiniO? your pedantry is epically outnumbered by common sense subscribers.

djimi · 07-10-2012 4:06pm

CiniO wrote: »

Of course there is - prohibition to overtake on the left.

People who really think that prohibition of undetaking applies only to situations where you change lane from right to left and accelerate to pass someone on the left, really miss the whole concept.
On the motorway (except from situation where there is a traffic jam) is is prohibited to pass anyone on the left side, no matter what's the reason for doing it.

What are you on about? The point that you were making was that the cars in the left hand lane should have to slow down to accomodate the cars in the overtaking lane merging back in, which is nonsense considering it is supposed to be the car in the overtaking lane who is going quicker and passing out the car in the left hand lane. If the car in the overtaking lane is slowing down then it would only serve to create an even more dangerous situation if the car in the left hand lane also slowed to try and match their decreasing speed.

CiniO wrote: »

I actually never said that truck driver didn't take the best action possible.
What I said that he broke the law, and possibly could be prosecuted.
Also that if slowing down without slamming on the brakes was possible, he should have done it.

Your problem is that you are interpreting the law too literally. In any situation you do what is necessary to ensure that the situation passes as safely as possible. Sometimes this involves breaking the rules of the road, but if it is for the greater good then there is no way that anyone will be punished for it, provided their actions were the best they could do to ensure safety and that they didnt make things worse.

In this case had the truck slowed down to match the speed of the two cars then he would have made the situation far more dangerous than it already was. The actions he took ensured that the situation was not made any worse, and his actions also posed absolutely no danger to any of the vehicles involved. I would be fully confident in saying that there is no way any police would ever have prosecuted him for what he did.

AugustusMinimus · 07-10-2012 4:22pm

CiniO, do you believe that the truck driver should also have got points on his licence for his actions ?

CiniO · 07-10-2012 5:27pm

djimi wrote: »

What are you on about? The point that you were making was that the cars in the left hand lane should have to slow down to accomodate the cars in the overtaking lane merging back in, which is nonsense considering it is supposed to be the car in the overtaking lane who is going quicker and passing out the car in the left hand lane.

That's what it's supposed to be. But sometimes things go other way they are supposed to go, and that video is perfect example.

If the car in the overtaking lane is slowing down then it would only serve to create an even more dangerous situation if the car in the left hand lane also slowed to try and match their decreasing speed.

And this is the point in which we disagree.
Because you think that if car (or cars) on right lane slow down, then cars on left lane should keep going, as if they brake they will cause even more dangerous sitation.
And I think, that in that case cars in left lane should slow down to match the speed of car (cars) in right lane, because if they don't this will create even more dangerous situation.

At least we concluded the main point of the whole discussion.
But I doubt anyone is going to convince each other.

CiniO · 07-10-2012 5:28pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

CiniO, do you believe that the truck driver should also have got points on his licence for his actions ?

I don't know if for undertaking there are points..
I also didn't say truck driver should be prosecuted.
I said he possibly could be prosecuted, as he broke the law.
I don't think it would be fair to prosecute him in this particular case, but it doesn't change the fact that he broke the law.

djimi · 07-10-2012 5:29pm

CiniO wrote: »

And this is the point in which we disagree.
Because you think that if car (or cars) on right lane slow down, then cars on left lane should keep going, as if they brake they will cause even more dangerous sitation.
And I think, that in that case cars in left lane should slow down to match the speed of car (cars) in right lane, because if they don't this will create even more dangerous situation.

At least we concluded the main point of the whole discussion.
But I doubt anyone is going to convince each other.

Taking the situation in the video as an example, how would the truck continuing on to pass the cars create more of a danger than if he slowed down to match their speed?

djimi · 07-10-2012 5:31pm

CiniO wrote: »

I don't know if for undertaking there are points..
I also didn't say truck driver should be prosecuted.
I said he possibly could be prosecuted, as he broke the law.
I don't think it would be fair to prosecute him in this particular case, but it doesn't change the fact that he broke the law.

One could argue that by needlessly and stupidly decreasing speed on a motorway it would be deemed as dangerous driving, which would also be breaking the law. Which do you think is the lesser of two evils?

CiniO · 07-10-2012 5:39pm

djimi wrote: »

Taking the situation in the video as an example, how would the truck continuing on to pass the cars create more of a danger than if he slowed down to match their speed?

In that case assuming there was noting behind him - he didn't really create any danger by continuing.

But if there was a queue a cars behind him, and they would all keep going at constant speed, that would make two vehicles on the right lane (lane hogger + squad car) left there at low speed, as they couldn't safelty cross to the left hard shoulder. And this would be very big danger.

But... before we keep arguing.
In my whole driving career, I never encountered a situation of any vehicle gradually slowing down on overtaking lane, and I never had a need to brake to avoid undertaking in that case.
So I assume this must be really very rare cases, as I've done a good bit miles on the motorways.

djimi · 07-10-2012 6:02pm

CiniO wrote: »

In that case assuming there was noting behind him - he didn't really create any danger by continuing.

But if there was a queue a cars behind him, and they would all keep going at constant speed, that would make two vehicles on the right lane (lane hogger + squad car) left there at low speed, as they couldn't safelty cross to the left hard shoulder. And this would be very big danger.

But... before we keep arguing.
In my whole driving career, I never encountered a situation of any vehicle gradually slowing down on overtaking lane, and I never had a need to brake to avoid undertaking in that case.
So I assume this must be really very rare cases, as I've done a good bit miles on the motorways.

The point Im trying to make though is that as it stands there is a danger from a slow moving vehicle in lane 3. If the truck also slows down then there are slow moving vehicles in lanes 1 and 3. The truck passing the cars might not lessen the danger that they pose to the overtaking lane, but it minimizes it, rather than creating a second problem in a different lane, and a problem that does not need to be created.

The problem in this case would not be caused by the truck not slowing down, it would be caused by the cars who are slowing down. In reality the cars in the overtaking lane need to speed up to a speed where they can pass the truck safely, not the truck slowing down in order to leave a gap for them to merge. That is the expected behaviour for cars in the overtaking lane.

Also, in this case the middle lane is empty, so the two cars can begin to move left into the middle lane while the truck goes past, then can move into the left hand land once it is free. There is no absolute immediate need for the left hand lane to become vacant in a hurry.

I suppose the crux of my arguement is that you do not stop or slow down suddenly on a motorway for any reason unless its absolutely necessary. In this case I dont think its absolutely necessary; the car in front is not in trouble other than the police want to pull them over, and therefore they can both continue along in their lane until it is safe for them to merge back into the left hand lanes. Its not an emergency and there is no reason to disrupt other motorway users or put them in danger.

I agree with you though; this is a rare situation, and one which probably does not have a lot of precidence. I have had to brake when approaching cars moving slower than me in the outside lanes, but they are usually travelling at a constant speed, not a decreasing speed, so its easier to deal with safely and anticipate well in advance. I have also never come across a situation where the cars in the outside lanes are actually decreasing in speed as I approach them (unless we are all heading into heavy traffic or something, or there is an accident in the outside lane or something like that, in which case I will be slowing also).

thecomedian · 07-10-2012 8:08pm

God there must be some dangerous divers on this site!
The lack of common sense is scary.

The clip is great though, delighted to see the driver getting pulled over. What he did by hitting the brakes "testing" is childish and deserves everything they get.

The truck driver was right in what he did. It would have being a lot worse for him to slow right down!

sean1141 · 08-10-2012 12:02am

CiniO wrote: »

In that case assuming there was noting behind him .

Ever drive an artic or even a tractor and trailer. You can never assume there is nothing behind you in that massive blind spot that the trailer causes. Heavy braking is best avoid if at all possible with one of these machines. Jackknifing is a strong possibility also..

CiniO · 08-10-2012 1:02am

sean1141 wrote: »

Ever drive an artic or even a tractor and trailer. You can never assume there is nothing behind you in that massive blind spot that the trailer causes. Heavy braking is best avoid if at all possible with one of these machines. Jackknifing is a strong possibility also..

I've never driven artic, but to be honest good driver should be always aware what's behind him. I can't see on straight motorway that massive blindspot behind a trailer being any bigger than in normal rigid lorry or a bus.
Besides, I never advocated heavy braking.
It's just hard to say from the video, if there was a heavy braking needed to avoid undertaking by this truck driver.

listermint · 08-10-2012 9:37am

last word in after cinio

sean1141 · 08-10-2012 9:49am

CiniO wrote: »

I've never driven artic, but to be honest good driver should be always aware what's behind him. I can't see on straight motorway that massive blindspot behind a trailer being any bigger than in normal rigid lorry or a bus.
Besides, I never advocated heavy braking.
It's just hard to say from the video, if there was a heavy braking needed to avoid undertaking by this truck driver.

Yes the blind spot will be similar to any rigid truck or bus but you can't see sweet f all directly behind them either. Now I know by law nobody should be driving that close behind a truck but in a perfect world everybody would follow the rules and there would be no need for police on the roads but we all know that's not the case.

In the case of some fool doing something stupid, like in the video where the lane hogger decides they are going to pull in on the central divider, the safest thing the truck driver can do is keep going at a stead pace and keep out of the way. It dose not mean he was not breaking a law but it was the safest thing he could have done.

Oh and he was most likely talking to himself!!!

H3llR4iser · 08-10-2012 11:34am

How can it be the UK? The police car has a red flashing light on top, I thought red flashing lights were illegal in the UK and emergency vehicles must have blue flashers and, at most, flashing white headlights...could it be anywhere in Australia or New Zealand?

I am also intrigued about the fact people assume the trucker must be talking on a phone...most truckers carry a radio CB in the cabin and keep in communication with other truckers; On top of that, nobody ever comes up to a situation (or a moron) on the road and trash talk him or her even if they clearly can't hear you?

Chriscl1 · 08-10-2012 11:39am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

On top of that, nobody ever comes up to a situation (or a moron) on the road and trash talk him or her even if they clearly can't hear you?

I do it all the time. I can't help it, bad road discipline brings out the demon in me lol.

renofan · 08-10-2012 12:15pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

How can it be the UK?......
I am also intrigued about the fact people assume the trucker must be talking on a phone...most truckers carry a radio CB in the cabin and keep in communication with other truckers....

Its on the M62 just before junction 32 in the UK.

If it was a CB won't you hear the fella talk back to him. Imo he is definately on the phone.

BigEejit · 08-10-2012 12:21pm

renofan wrote: »

Its on the M62 just before junction 32 in the UK.

If it was a CB won't you hear the fella talk back to him. Imo he is definately on the phone.

Yeah, just what i was going to point out. Also there is some attraction/historical place as there was a brown sign before the junction. UK traffic cops have front facing blue lights and separate rear blue and red flashing lights, you can see they gave the muppet the blue lights and he went to stop on the centre reservation and that's when they turned on the rear lights.

You regularly see cops going somewhere on the motorway and they only use the front lights but when stopping traffic behind just use the rear lights.

renofan · 08-10-2012 12:27pm

BigEejit wrote: »

... Also there is some attraction/historical place as there was a brown sign before the junction....

Its for the Xscape outlet village.

newmug · 08-10-2012 7:49pm

I cant believe nobody mentioned the drivers accent yet. I'm aware drivers cross borders every day, but going by his accent alone, its most likely to be England.