Thurles

Mantis Toboggan · 03-05-2016 9:25pm #1

Surprised there's not already a a thread on it.

Seen it nominated for worst town in Ireland and was thinking of practical solutions to breath life back into the town.

I know the celtic tiger didn't really make an appearance in the town but it still has plenty going for it. Race track, train station, greyhound stadium, Semple Stadium, good schools, good Gaa clubs, motorway close by.

Big problem is lack of jobs, no reason for young people to stay there. Having so many independent politicians doesn't help.

First thing I'd do is get rid of the cars in the square, plenty of other places to develop parking, doesn't hold that many cars in any case. I'd put paving down and a few seats similar to Cashel town centre.

Secondly, there needs to be be another bridge over the river, preferably a ring road. As it stands cars are directed into the square just to get over the river leading to congestion.

Thoughts/suggestions?

frankz · 03-05-2016 11:00pm

Some of that already underway.
Talks of €3m redevelopment
Plans to widen footpaths and reduce parking.
Develop two new parking areas (around 100 spaces)

1. Behind what was Jackie Griffins

2. Around the Source somewhere (current underground parking there is disaster!!)

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=660947407341518&id=434546286648299

http://www.thurles.info/2014/07/22/liberty-square-thurles-moves-closer-to-a-revamp/

http://tippfm.com/news/liberty_square_project_nearly_at_public_consultation_phase

Ring road completion is long talked of and would be a major help - but it didn't get done before the recession and no money since!!
Should have happened in the "boom times" - council/councillors didn't get it together enough to put on national agenda.
Again hard to disagree with your point on the politicians.

Without the ring road the pinch points for traffic continue to cause congestion.
I am often shocked there are not more small tips/accidents

-(i) turning from Parnell Street on the the Square many people some to move well over the white line,
parking on the double yellow at fish shop doesn't help (perhaps still bit of old small town mentality - I am only popping in for a minute so will just leave the car right at the door and ignore that its blocks loads of others)

(ii) exiting the square towards Cathedral Street (again inappropriate Parking outside chinese/castle plus moving from wide road to narrow)

(iii) Fast moving traffic entering Parnell Street from stadium side many of whom seem to ignore that due to the parking they have to and are travelling in the middle of the road but yet do not give way to traffic exiting from square who are travelling on own side of road.

(iv) The one lane/two lane/double parking from AIB to Hayes.
Is using the left lane to continue forward proper driving or trying to skip the queue of traffic!
At first I used to use the left lane if continuing forward but between people randomly deciding to stop in park in it and then others cutting me up because the were using the right lane to continue straight.
I do find it funny when traffic is at standstill and people try to queue skip and its so short a road at most you might get past 3 cars - hardly worth the all the manouevering.

On the other side of square the inside lane is left turn only

(v) I find that is little reluctance by many drivers in Thurles to give an inch regardless of fact that they cant travel forward themselves. I didn't notice this as bad elsewhere.

So just the physical constraints of the narrowness and indeed the location of the schools causes a lot of traffic chaos.

I wasn't around when they tried the one way system but it seems there has huge resistance to even giving it a chance.

Other towns of not hugely bigger size use traffic lights because of the narrowness of streets - would it work or is it needed in Thurles? Or would it just increase the chaos?

In fairness the school on the road heading out towards semple stadium from Parnell street have really got their patrons to tidy up the parking.

frankz · 03-05-2016 11:03pm

Edit - side note. Have you ever been in liberty square after a big match in Semple Stadium.
Looks like a herd of wild animals came through !!!!
All manners/social conscience seems to go out the window and just drop your rubbish anywhere and everywhere

tastyt · 03-05-2016 11:41pm

Worst town in Ireland? Really? Where was this list?

Have to say it seems really hard for any new businesses to start up and survive in the town, be they restaurants or bars. I shudder to think what the local economy would be like without semple stadium.

Like a lot of rural towns the recession ripped the heart out of the place, by taking all the young people

the_pen_turner · 04-05-2016 12:00am

frankz wrote: »

Some of that already underway.
Talks of €3m redevelopment
Plans to widen footpaths and reduce parking.
Develop two new parking areas (around 100 spaces)

1. Behind what was Jackie Griffins

2. Around the Source somewhere (current underground parking there is disaster!!) total disaster. . I don't know who designed it but surely they don't need all those pillars or that low of a ceiling

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=660947407341518&id=434546286648299

http://www.thurles.info/2014/07/22/liberty-square-thurles-moves-closer-to-a-revamp/

http://tippfm.com/news/liberty_square_project_nearly_at_public_consultation_phase

Ring road completion is long talked of and would be a major help - but it didn't get done before the recession and no money since!!
Should have happened in the "boom times" - council/councillors didn't get it together enough to put on national agenda.
Again hard to disagree with your point on the politicians.

Without the ring road the pinch points for traffic continue to cause congestion.
I am often shocked there are not more small tips/accidents
the ring road was blocked by all the big shot shop keepers that said it would reduce foot fall into their shops. I think it would actually allow people to stop and shop rather than try to desperately get through the town

-(i) turning from Parnell Street on the the Square many people some to move well over the white line,
parking on the double yellow at fish shop doesn't help (perhaps still bit of old small town mentality - I am only popping in for a minute so will just leave the car right at the door and ignore that its blocks loads of others)
I think they are trying to stop the traffic on the square so its easier to get on

(ii) exiting the square towards Cathedral Street (again inappropriate Parking outside chinese/castle plus moving from wide road to narrow)

(iii) Fast moving traffic entering Parnell Street from stadium side many of whom seem to ignore that due to the parking they have to and are travelling in the middle of the road but yet do not give way to traffic exiting from square who are travelling on own side of road. if you wait at mcgloclines road marking for the oncoming traffic to stop you may as well bring a mattress an pillow with you. i drive like that any time im in thurles. you have to . the parking should be banned there to stop the back log. one truck and its gridlock

(iv) The one lane/two lane/double parking from AIB to Hayes.there is a special place in hell for those people
Is using the left lane to continue forward proper driving or trying to skip the queue of traffic! its proper driving . you have the right of way and should be able to use it
At first I used to use the left lane if continuing forward but between people randomly deciding to stop in park in it and then others cutting me up because the were using the right lane to continue straight.there should be a bollard in front of that right hand lane so that you can only go around the square and not straight away. I have reddened my horn on several bad driver at that point for trying to go straight thare when they had no right to cut across me
I do find it funny when traffic is at standstill and people try to queue skip and its so short a road at most you might get past 3 cars - hardly worth the all the manouevering. how are they cutting the queue . if the left lane is free then there is no queue going straight only one going back around the square , probably with some fool trying to go straight stuck at the lights

On the other side of square the inside lane is left turn only

(v) I find that is little reluctance by many drivers in Thurles to give an inch regardless of fact that they cant travel forward themselves. I didn't notice this as bad elsewhere.

So just the physical constraints of the narrowness and indeed the location of the schools causes a lot of traffic chaos.

I wasn't around when they tried the one way system but it seems there has huge resistance to even giving it a chance.total disaster . people driving the wrong way up one way streets and causing chaos

Other towns of not hugely bigger size use traffic lights because of the narrowness of streets - would it work or is it needed in Thurles? Or would it just increase the chaos? only create a disaster

In fairness the school on the road heading out towards semple stadium from Parnell street have really got their patrons to tidy up the parking.

---

the_pen_turner · 04-05-2016 12:03am

don't get me started on the round about at Mitchel st and Dublin road. why cant anyone use it properly.

frankz · 04-05-2016 12:17am

I fear you may be one of the overly aggressive drivers to whom I refer.

Redding the horn at a junction where you know both lanes are used for continuing straight on - its not really courteous driving now is it! :-)

There is actually no markings on the road to indicate that the right hand land is right hand turn only so traffic is entitled to go straight.
In the left hand lane you give way to traffic on the right so they are the ones that should actually "redden" the horn against you.

Ya - the parking on Parnell street is a problem. But that is NOT a reason to drive in an aggressive manner, because its a problem for traffic going both ways.
I am not saying bring a pillow at all, what I am saying is if many local drivers took an extra second, assessed the situation, drove a little slower it would allow the traffic leaving the town to keep moving as well.

I am sorry "I have to drive like that" is exactly what I am talking about, its all about me and to hell with the other road users!
What I am saying is a little less "gung ho" attitude might help.

frankz · 04-05-2016 12:20am

I assume the underground parking at the source was designed as a flood water area and the parking idea came after?

Mantis Toboggan · 04-05-2016 7:46am

frankz wrote: »

Edit - side note. Have you ever been in liberty square after a big match in Semple Stadium.
Looks like a herd of wild animals came through !!!!
All manners/social conscience seems to go out the window and just drop your rubbish anywhere and everywhere

Wouldn't be too concerned with this, not just confined to Thurles, part and parcel of having a huge stadium in a small town. The stadium is a benefit to the town imo.

The problem lies with there being very little planning for big events, go to any of the big matches in Thurles this year and will not see any extra bins out on the street, what you will see is bins that are completely full.

frankz · 04-05-2016 9:44am

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Wouldn't be too concerned with this, not just confined to Thurles, part and parcel of having a huge stadium in a small town. The stadium is a benefit to the town imo.

The problem lies with there being very little planning for big events, go to any of the big matches in Thurles this year and will not see any extra bins out on the street, what you will see is bins that are completely full.

Oh ya the stadium is a huge benefit.

And there is a lot more bins than there used to be,
but again if people could take some responsibility themselves - if the nearest bin is full that does not mean you should just drop in on street.
Have a bit of consideration for the locals/residents.

mikep · 04-05-2016 1:59pm

The planning for the redevelopment of the square so hopefully that will commence soon.

The new park has been a great addition and is in use a lot, if only we could get a decent summer!!

On the jobs front Dew Valley Meats is probably the biggest employer and is expanding, also Boru Stoves recently took on more people.

The Stadium is a big draw but only really benefits the pubs etc..

mikep · 04-05-2016 1:59pm

The planning for the redevelopment of the square has been submitted so hopefully that will commence soon.

The new park has been a great addition and is in use a lot, if only we could get a decent summer!!

On the jobs front Dew Valley Meats is probably the biggest employer and is expanding, also Boru Stoves recently took on more people.

The Stadium is a big draw but only really benefits the pubs etc..

wokingvoter · 04-05-2016 4:54pm

frankz wrote: »

Edit - side note. Have you ever been in liberty square after a big match in Semple Stadium.
Looks like a herd of wild animals came through !!!!
All manners/social conscience seems to go out the window and just drop your rubbish anywhere and everywhere

They tried putting huge bins in the Sqaure at one stage but the bins soon filled up and spilled over etc so no benefit

the_pen_turner · 04-05-2016 5:38pm

frankz wrote: »

I fear you may be one of the overly aggressive drivers to whom I refer. im one of the most calm drivers you will meet.

Redding the horn at a junction where you know both lanes are used for continuing straight on - its not really courteous driving now is it! :-) just because they go straight doesn't mean they should . iv actually only used my horn there twice and both times only to stop the fool crashing into me

There is actually no markings on the road to indicate that the right hand land is right hand turn only so traffic is entitled to go straight.
In the left hand lane you give way to traffic on the right so they are the ones that should actually "redden" the horn against you. I will be in thurles in a few hours. I will double check the markings but left for straight and right for right is the way its marked

Ya - the parking on Parnell street is a problem. But that is NOT a reason to drive in an aggressive manner, because its a problem for traffic going both ways.
I am not saying bring a pillow at all, what I am saying is if many local drivers took an extra second, assessed the situation, drove a little slower it would allow the traffic leaving the town to keep moving as well. I agree that some people drive way too fast in the middle of the road. when I do it I go very slow

I am sorry "I have to drive like that" is exactly what I am talking about, its all about me and to hell with the other road users! the next time im in thurles and have time I will time it to se how long I have to wait for the traffic to stop so I could drive
What I am saying is a little less "gung ho" attitude might help.

im not saying my driving on parnell st is 100% correct but its the lesser of two evils.

the main dangerous driving spots are
roundabout at the mill rd. it may as well not exist to some people
where ikernan rd comes out on Mitchel st (the narrow st on the end) . the speed some people swing in at would frighten you

round about at dunnes. cars stopping for no reason,, no indicators, and pedestrians with a death wish

the roundabout at lidl may not exist

the rd that comes out just after the railway bridge at bowes. is lethal with the speed people go over the bridge

that cross outside larrys pub is dangerous. someone pulled across me today coming from centra direction

the cross at bowes is a disaster and an accident waiting to happen

frankz · 05-05-2016 12:17am

I cant quote your posts but:

I have reddened my horn on several bad driver at that point for trying to go straight thare when they had no right to cut across me

Followed by

iv actually only used my horn there twice and both times only to stop the fool crashing into me

:-) :-) :-)

I agree that some people drive way too fast in the middle of the road. when I do it I go very slow

Fair enough thats what we both think should happen on that road.
Just wasn't what I took from your first post.
Not suggestiong people should park and wait at all.

Roughly outside ladbrokes in the right hand land an arrow to in the right hand lane go straight ahead and an arrow to go right.
So it seems both are a legitimate option.
At the junction there is a curve to show that you can go around the end. Not that you must.

frankz · 05-05-2016 12:20am

wokingvoter wrote: »

They tried putting huge bins in the Sqaure at one stage but the bins soon filled up and spilled over etc so no benefit

Again I dont think that is enough of a reason to give up!

That they filled up is a good thing!!! So obviously was a big benefit

Plus normally if a bin was full the average person would not just dump the stuff on the ground so why do it on a match day!

frankz · 05-05-2016 12:24am

mikep wrote: »

The planning for the redevelopment of the square so hopefully that will commence soon.

The new park has been a great addition and is in use a lot, if only we could get a decent summer!!

On the jobs front Dew Valley Meats is probably the biggest employer and is expanding, also Boru Stoves recently took on more people.

The Stadium is a big draw but only really benefits the pubs etc..

Often think Dew Valley doesn't get the credit it deserves.
Imagine large portion of its workforce would be very local? Ie not travelling large distances?

Imagine some of the jobs in Boru stoves would be quite skilled - decent wages?

Is there much employment up in the technology Park?

I read somewhere that there is reasonable numbers in the garda vetting place.

The shopping centre seems to be busy again so people back spending money locally.

Pub trade seems to be gone everywhere - suppose the nature of drinking has changed.

macjohn · 05-05-2016 12:44am

Has the source and new library done much for the town?

Seems to do some kids stuff in the holiday seasons - has it helped younger people to focus their energies on the more creative side of life?? Any away from anti social?

Not saying she would have been in anyway anti social but actor Charlie Murphy credits growing up near the theatre and it just being there and a place to go as one of the reasons for her interest and sucess

wokingvoter · 05-05-2016 6:50am

frankz wrote: »

Often think Dew Valley doesn't get the credit it deserves.
Imagine large portion of its workforce would be very local? Ie not travelling large distances?

Imagine some of the jobs in Boru stoves would be quite skilled - decent wages?

Is there much employment up in the technology Park?

I read somewhere that there is reasonable numbers in the garda vetting place.

The shopping centre seems to be busy again so people back spending money locally.

Pub trade seems to be gone everywhere - suppose the nature of drinking has changed.

A large portion of its workforce travelled from Eastern Europe in reality.

Grab All Association · 05-05-2016 7:36am

If the supermarket had of went ahead on the old Erin foods site the town would have had another bridge crossing. The reason it didn't go ahead was due to uncompetitive tactics by small traders.

In 2007 Tesco applied for PP to build a new Tesco Extra supermarket in Clongour. Small traders all objected to it even though it would have reduced congestion in the square. They revised this in 2010 and withdrew it in 2012 due to the downturn they experienced in the UK/Ireland.

Here's one example. (there's loads more) of the submissions http://193.178.30.68/idocswebDPSS/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=390931&format=jpeg

Two sites that are available for this type of development are the soon to be closed Erin Foods factory

Then in 2011 http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/local-news/163206/-8m-Shopping-Centre-Planned-for.html

The same trader who made that submission urged Thurles Town Council in 2011 to reject the planning application.

Thurles Town Council granted permission but this decision was overturned by ABP. Thurles Town Council lost out on hundreds of thousands of euros in development fees.

frankz · 05-05-2016 12:33pm

wokingvoter wrote: »

A large portion of its workforce travelled from Eastern Europe in reality.

Sorry ya I meant living locally (in the local economy) rather than original nationality.

frankz · 05-05-2016 12:49pm

Grab All Association wrote: »

Here's one example. (there's loads more) of the submissions http://193.178.30.68/idocswebDPSS/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=390931&format=jpeg

.

Link is just brining up blank page for me - is it working for others?

Grab All Association · 05-05-2016 1:01pm

frankz wrote: »

Link is just brining up blank page for me - is it working for others?

It can be viewed by JPEG only these days. DjVu used to work but doesn't anymore. I've attached it below if you still can't see it.

You just can't win when it comes to planning in Thurles.

Note the supermarket planned for Clongour was the same size as the one in Clonmel and there were other buildings planned for the front. Quirkes Erin food site supermarket was smaller.

frankz · 05-05-2016 3:01pm

Thanks, interesting.

Well worded to ground his argument in rules

I know you said just an example but wondering how much they actually influenced the decision making process.

frankz · 05-05-2016 3:03pm

Have Tesco sold the Clongour site at this stage?

If so their town centre shop badly needs investment - ie if its the long term offering.

Grab All Association · 05-05-2016 3:50pm

frankz wrote: »

Have Tesco sold the Clongour site at this stage?

If so their town centre shop badly needs investment - ie if its the long term offering.

It was up for sale recently with 10 year PP for warehouses.

While the staff in Thurles are great the supermarket is a disgrace.

It's always out of stock on certain items (and at times even the basics milk, bread etc)

There's a massive bump in part of the floor down the back of the store that will trip someone up one day

It hasn't changed since 1970s. It was originally owned by Joey O'Connor who sold to BAF in the late 70s.

The freezer doors were broken for months and you couldn't close them.

20 years ago it was in need of refurbishment. Today it needs to be knocked and replaced. It's the only supermarket in the town that charges you for parking.

In the smaller towns nearby Roscrea, Tipperary, Cashel etc they stay open until 10pm/11pm. Thurles closes at 6PM/7pm Sunday-Wednesday.

This happend around Christmas time 2013. Dunnes Stores had a late opening for shoppers buying gifts until around 3am. The Tesco store closed at 6pm that evening (before the newsagents) on what was one of the busiest shopping days in years.

wokingvoter · 05-05-2016 6:45pm

The big problem with Thurles Tesco apart from the depression inducing shop, has always been the fact that there's never been a Manager who could actually manage the staff.
I know it's not PC to say this but the majority of those who recently accepted the redundancies should have been sacked years ago.
Lazy entitled bunch who held the customers in utter contempt, having stayed well past their sell by date (pardon the pun) and having little daily Union meetings over byvthevhot food counter while you hunt in vain for a sliced pan.
The new bunch seem to have started out fine but no training at all. My 82 year old mother who has been shopping in that premises for 42 years searched the newspaper stand for a Tipp Star yesterday before pointing out to a young assistant that there appeared to be none.
He helpfully waved her vaguely in the direction of the back of the shop" there might be some down there missus"
Excellent Tescos . Well done

frankz · 08-05-2016 10:42pm

Anyone go to the vintage car show today in St. Pats.? ANy pics?

I didn't know it was on - was away since Friday just came back tonight and saw the posters and was a flyer in the door.
Might have changed plans if I knew it was on.

Oops! · 09-05-2016 12:58am

A small number of certain business men and politicians have been strangling Thurles for years, no growth whats so ever. The amount of derelict buildings and industrial estates is depressing.

wokingvoter · 09-05-2016 6:39am

Oops! wrote: »

A small number of certain business men and politicians have been strangling Thurles for years, no growth whats so ever. The amount of derelict buildings and industrial estates is depressing.

Without giving names of course, can you explain this allegation?

Mantis Toboggan · 11-05-2016 11:17pm

How is the source centre doing in the town I haven't been in there in years?

Thurles

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