rsa supporting e-scooters

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:19am

Bally go Backwards.

Obviously the govt thinks it's 1920 not 2019

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:21am

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyway, i would suspect that people with chipped e-bikes might be starting to worry now.

Worried where they'll find someone to walk in front with a flag...

magicbastarder · 15-10-2019 8:24am

would someone on an e-scooter be able to carry the flag for the person on the bike? asking for a friend.

magicbastarder · 15-10-2019 8:25am

beauf wrote: »

Obviously the govt thinks it's 1920 not 2019

this is not a government proposal though. this is from the opposition (well, whether you'd call FF the opposition is a debate for another day).

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:36am

The govt solution to transport is we all buy 50k electric cars. It doesn't help the gridlock in anyway, and no one can buy them as they can't make them quick enough.

At some point people will realise this govt does nothing about anything.

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:38am

magicbastarder wrote: »

would someone on an e-scooter be able to carry the flag for the person on the bike? asking for a friend.

It's going to part of a new get people back to work scheme.

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:39am

magicbastarder wrote: »

this is not a government proposal though. this is from the opposition (well, whether you'd call FF the opposition is a debate for another day).

Are we not a one party state? Very confusing.

CantGetNoSleep · 15-10-2019 8:42am

buffalo wrote: »

This is laughable: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/escooter-users-facing-2500-fine-for-speeding-38595458.html

Yep, a €1,000 speeding fine for doing 26kph. I don't think there's even an official speed limit in Ireland where a car driver can be fined anything at that speed. And if you're doing 50kph in a 30 zone? Well that's €80 and some penalty points that expire after a few years. Ridiculous.

What happens if you are going down a hill?

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:45am

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

What happens if you are going down a hill?

The fine will have sliding scale to cover that.

Tzardine · 15-10-2019 8:46am

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

What happens if you are going down a hill?

What happens if you are speeding down a hill in a car.

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:48am

They'll issue their whistle blowers whistles and get them back to work issuing speeding fines to scooters. Them hanging around the station being ostracized is just awkward for everyone.

magicbastarder · 15-10-2019 8:50am

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

What happens if you are going down a hill?

magicbastarder wrote:

from what i've seen on twitter, that's a journalist who doesn't know his ass from his elbow. the fine would be for illegally modifying the scooter to be able to exceed 25km/h, not for the actual speeding offence.

i suspect we need a better source on what the proposed legislation contains, than the indo.

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:50am

Tzardine wrote: »

What happens if you are speeding down a hill in a car.

Thus far nothing. You might drop your phone in shock at moving in traffic.

beauf · 15-10-2019 8:52am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i suspect we need a better source on what the proposed legislation contains, than the indo.

This might be a story too vague even for Waterford Whispers. Lads who've no hope of getting elected have another lunatic proposal.

LeeroyJ. · 15-10-2019 9:02am

25kmh limit is fair and inline with other countries. Most scooter are already software locked to 25kmh and disable acceleration when you are going downhill, I think the quickest I've gone downhill is 32 under perfect conditions.
In other news, I've been riding my scooter every day for about 2 months or so and I've driven past police and even behind a Gardai car for about 10 minutes on the road and haven't had anyone stop me yet. It seems police are turning a blind eye as long as people stick to traffic rules and stay of the footpaths.

I really hope they legalize personal devices, I'm not sure how I feel about the shareable ones though, I've been to Zurich and Bonn in the last 2 weeks and I've seen young teenagers with 2 people on 1 scooter speeding along footpaths multiple times, I think driving your own brings a certain amount of care with it as they aren't cheap but the shareable ones people don't seem to care about.

Utter Consternation · 15-10-2019 9:04am

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

25kmh limit is fair and inline with other countries. Most scooter are already software locked to 25kmh and disable acceleration when you are going downhill, I think the quickest I've gone downhill is 32 under perfect conditions.
I other new, I've been riding my scooter every day for about 2 months or so and I've driven past police and even behind a Gardai car for about 10 minutes on the road and haven't had anyone stop me yet. It seems police are turning a blind eye as long as people stick to traffic rules and stay of the footpaths.

I really hope they legalize personal devices, I'm not sure how I feel about the shareable ones though, I've been to Zurich and Bonn in the last 2 weeks and I've seen young teenagers with 2 people in 1 scooter speeding along footpaths multiple times, I think driving your own brings a certain amount of care with it as they aren't cheap but the shareable ones people don't seem to care about.

It's a great way to get people out of their cars.

I've an electric bike and i do find that some scooters (and indeed plenty other electric bikes) pass me by when the motor has cut out at 25kmph.

ted1 · 15-10-2019 9:11am

buffalo wrote: »

This is laughable: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/escooter-users-facing-2500-fine-for-speeding-38595458.html

Yep, a €1,000 speeding fine for doing 26kph. I don't think there's even an official speed limit in Ireland where a car driver can be fined anything at that speed. And if you're doing 50kph in a 30 zone? Well that's €80 and some penalty points that expire after a few years. Ridiculous.

Wouldn’t hold up in court as if disportional to the fine for speeding in a car which carries a higher risk.

rubadub · 15-10-2019 9:42am

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyway, i would suspect that people with chipped e-bikes might be starting to worry now.

Harder to detect since on the flat or uphill under human power they can go over 25km/h when the assistance is turned off.

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

What happens if you are going down a hill?

You would have to brake, but the journo is probably wrong.

I was making a similar point in a thread on ebikes. One person saying an assisted limit of 30km/h would be "ridiculous", while they could freewheel down a hill at over 55km/h. I was wondering if they thought all cyclists should have a 30km/h limit, or maybe 35km/h which I guess they might find outrageously & utterly ridiculous :rolleyes:

magicbastarder · 15-10-2019 9:50am

rubadub wrote: »

You would have to brake, but the journo is probably wrong.

from what i understand, this is the case - the fine mentioned would be for illegally chipping the scooter, not for the actual speeding.

Utter Consternation · 15-10-2019 9:52am

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i understand, this is the case - the fine mentioned would be for illegally chipping the scooter, not for the actual speeding.

That has to be the case. Are the Gardai going to be out speed gunning people on e-scooters?? I doubt it very much.

It's fairly easy to spot anyone who has a chipped scooter or ebike because they're usually bloody flying it.

magicbastarder · 15-10-2019 10:29am

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i've seen on twitter, that's a journalist who doesn't know his ass from his elbow. the fine would be for illegally modifying the scooter to be able to exceed 25km/h, not for the actual speeding offence.
there are similar fines for modifying cars illegally, the tweet i saw claimed.

some clarification, this is the law as tabled:

Prohibition of removal of speed limitation device
3.
(1)All electric scooters shall be required to bear a speed limitation device which limitsthe scooter to speeds of 25 kilometres per hour.
(2)It shall be an offence for a person to remove or tamper with the speed limitationdevice on an electric scooter.
(3)A person found guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable for—(a)on summary conviction for a first offence a class D fine,(b)on summary conviction for a second or subsequent such offence, a class C fine.Speed limits for electric scooter users

4.
(1)It shall be an offence for a person using an electric scooter to exceed a speed limit of25 kilometres per hour.
(2)A person found guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable for—(a)on summary conviction for a first offence, a class D fine,(b)on summary conviction for a second or subsequent such offence, a class C fine.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2019/72/eng/initiated/b7219d.pdf

What is a class A fine?

Section 3 Fines Act 2010 defines the various classes of fine as follows:

“class A fine” means a fine not exceeding €5,000;

“class B fine” means a fine not exceeding €4,000;

“class C fine” means a fine not exceeding €2,500;

“class D fine” means a fine not exceeding €1,000;

“class E fine” means a fine not exceeding €500;

Therefore any time you see a criminal offence carrying a penalty on conviction ranging from class A to class E fine you will see from the above what the maximum fine can be.

Generally, it is a rare occasion when a Judge will impose the maximum fine.

https://businessandlegal.ie/court-fines-in-irish-law-what-you-should-know

so it appears they've not suggested a fixed fine, but one at the discretion of a judge. curious move.

CramCycle · 15-10-2019 10:34am

magicbastarder wrote: »

so it appears they've not suggested a fixed fine, but one at the discretion of a judge. curious move.

Which is even more bizarre, a FPN would be the only logical way to do this. I suppose knowing they will never get around to getting it through, they can say whatever they want before a GE.

duffman13 · 15-10-2019 10:35am

My ebike has an assisted speed of 25km/h and that is fine, my commute is 16km and it takes about a half hour because the assist is only needed to parts of my cycle and on downhill sections I'm obviously going a fair whack faster than that. I'd obviously like it to go quicker assisted but my commute has already been cut in half since I started cycling and my outgoings for parking etc are now non existent.

If people want something to go quicker whether its a scooter or a bike then buy something that can go quicker and requires tax and insurance.

Utter Consternation · 15-10-2019 10:55am

duffman13 wrote: »

My ebike has an assisted speed of 25km/h and that is fine, my commute is 16km and it takes about a half hour because the assist is only needed to parts of my cycle and on downhill sections I'm obviously going a fair whack faster than that. I'd obviously like it to go quicker assisted but my commute has already been cut in half since I started cycling and my outgoings for parking etc are now non existent.

If people want something to go quicker whether its a scooter or a bike then buy something that can go quicker and requires tax and insurance.

I'm more or less the same with a 12 km commute. The bike is no advantage to me on the way into work as it's downhill and usually with the wind, but it has saved me twenty minutes on the way home. It's fantastic.

I fell off the bike at the weekend (the second day i had it) so i can honestly say i'm happy with the speed being capped at 25kmh. Getting road rash at any higher speed would not be nice and you'd be likely to do serious damage to yourself or others.

unhappyBB · 16-10-2019 12:15am

The indo also says:

Users would also be required to wear a helmet and again would face fines for failing to do so.

Yes helmets are in your own interest. I just don't like the idea of being forced to wear one under penalty of a fine when someone on a bike, capable of going must faster, has a choice whether to wear one or not.

CramCycle · 16-10-2019 12:23am

A couple of things, first, it's the indo and several of the points made are not even close to what's being said. Second it's FF, trying to keep everyone happy by restricting use but also not banning them, they will never get remotely close to implementing even a well thought version of this for 10 to 12 years. Lastly, it's a slightly hot topic on a few social media sites. The general public don't actually give much of a f*CK, FF are just trying to get attention but are too stupid to realise that the general voter has zero f*cks to give about this.

ted1 · 16-10-2019 6:59am

unhappyBB wrote: »

when someone on a bike, capable of going must faster,

A bike wheel is much more forgiving if you hit a small bump or kerb. So the two are very different. Your comparison isn’t right, but your main point is

tomasrojo · 17-10-2019 1:50am

unhappyBB wrote: »

The indo also says:

Yes helmets are in your own interest. I just don't like the idea of being forced to wear one under penalty of a fine when someone on a bike, capable of going must faster, has a choice whether to wear one or not.

Well, we have an entire Megathread about how much they are in your own interest, and making them mandatory on the basis of the current evidence of their efficacy would be unwarranted, given how much laws of that nature hamper uptake.

But, as pointed out, scooters are more unstable than bikes: small wheels, and very high and very forward centre of gravity. The average speed of a cyclist in Dublin, IIRC, is about 12km/h, so most people aren't getting anywhere near 25km/h (present forum company excepted, and allowing for the difference between average speed and average moving speed).

LeeroyJ. · 17-10-2019 8:58am

tomasrojo wrote: »

Well, we have an entire Megathread about how much they are in your own interest, and making them mandatory on the basis of the current evidence of their efficacy would be unwarranted, given how much laws of that nature hamper uptake.

But, as pointed out, scooters are more unstable than bikes: small wheels, and very high and very forward centre of gravity. The average speed of a cyclist in Dublin, IIRC, is about 12km/h, so most people aren't getting anywhere near 25km/h (present forum company excepted, and allowing for the difference between average speed and average moving speed).

I Agree scooters might be a bit more unstable but on Average Scoters arent going faster either, usually between 15 and 20. I scoot along the canal every day and get overtaken by cyclist constantly - Im faster than the chunky dublin bikes but any privately owned decent bike goes much faster than the scooter models you see (majority Xiaomi and Ninebot)

There are few I see that go well above 30kmh, but they are few and far between and will be illegal under the propsed legislation anyway.

blackwhite · 17-10-2019 9:19am

tomasrojo wrote: »

Well, we have an entire Megathread about how much they are in your own interest, and making them mandatory on the basis of the current evidence of their efficacy would be unwarranted, given how much laws of that nature hamper uptake.

But, as pointed out, scooters are more unstable than bikes: small wheels, and very high and very forward centre of gravity. The average speed of a cyclist in Dublin, IIRC, is about 12km/h, so most people aren't getting anywhere near 25km/h (present forum company excepted, and allowing for the difference between average speed and average moving speed).

Whilst I've only ever ridden push-scooters, I can't help but think that the risk of injury from falling is less than it is on a bike.

One of the biggest complicating factors if you fall from a bike, is that the frame is stuck between your legs making it significantly harder to "catch" yourself as you come off.
On a scooter, the rider is going to have a lot more ability to get their feet out and under them which should mitigate the "fall and hit your head" risk that helmets are targeted towards

rsa supporting e-scooters

Comments