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Fire escape windows in dwelling ?

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  • 06-02-2021 1:09am
    #1
    joebre
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭


    A search here gave the following quote;

    "Part B (Fire Safety) of the building regulations require an opening means of escape from every habitable or accessible room"

    Can somebody clarify if this relates to bedrooms only or does it relate to all habitable rooms, regardless of floor level ?

    I assume it is the latter, even though most references here seem to refer to bedrooms only.


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    #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    its crystal clear

    section 1.3.7
    As a general provision, all bedrooms in
    dwelling houses, other than bedrooms with
    doors that give direct access to the outside
    should have at least one window which
    complies with the provisions herein.

    section 1.3.2
    any habitable room which is an inner
    room should be provided with a
    window for escape or rescue in
    accordance with 1.3.7.

    Habitable room - A room used for living or
    sleeping purposes but does not include a
    kitchen having a floor area less than 6.5 m2
    , a bathroom, toilet or shower room.

    Inner room - A room from which escape is
    possible only by passing through an access
    room.

    there are slightly more detailed requirements for 3 or 4 more storey buildings, but they are nto the norm.


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    #3
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    joebre wrote: »
    I assume it is the latter, even though most references here seem to refer to bedrooms only.

    Most references refer to bedrooms only, as first floor habitable rooms are typically bedrooms and escape is readily achieve on ground floors.
    But the latter is correct, essentially all habitable rooms need a suitable form of escape.


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    #4
    joebre
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭joebre


    Mellor wrote: »
    Most references refer to bedrooms only, as first floor habitable rooms are typically bedrooms and escape is readily achieve on ground floors.
    But the latter is correct, essentially all habitable rooms need a suitable form of escape.

    My query was in respect to the window of a ground floor sitting room.
    Size is in accordance with the requirements but the cill height of the window is more than 1100mm of the ground.


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    #5
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    joebre wrote: »
    My query was in respect to the window of a ground floor sitting room.
    Size is in accordance with the requirements but the cill height of the window is more than 1100mm of the ground.

    Is it an inner room?


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    #6
    joebre
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭joebre


    Mellor wrote: »
    Is it an inner room?

    No. It''s a standard semi-detached two storey house and about 20 years old.
    Just thought that windows of all habitable rooms had to have escape windows.


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    #7
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    joebre wrote: »
    No. It''s a standard semi-detached two storey house and about 20 years old.
    Just thought that windows of all habitable rooms had to have escape windows.

    Once you have an adequate fire/smoke detection system installed which are all interlinked, sitting room no, bedrooms yes. The reason for no in sitting room is you are alert and awake if fire breaks out.


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    #8
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    joebre wrote: »
    No. It''s a standard semi-detached two storey house and about 20 years old.
    Just thought that windows of all habitable rooms had to have escape windows.

    All bedrooms, and habitable inner rooms.
    See Syd's definition above.
    mad m wrote: »
    Once you have an adequate fire/smoke detection system installed which are all interlinked, sitting room no, bedrooms yes. The reason for no in sitting room is you are alert and awake if fire breaks out.
    An inner sitting room requires an escape underpart be.

    Can you point to a reference in part B that allows for that to be omitted if you have adequate fire/smoke detection?


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    #9
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    Mellor wrote: »
    All bedrooms, and habitable inner rooms.
    See Syd's definition above.


    An inner sitting room requires an escape underpart be.

    Can you point to a reference in part B that allows for that to be omitted if you have adequate fire/smoke detection?

    B6

    A dwelling house shall be so designed and constructed that there are appropriate provisions for the early warning of fire and there are adequate means of escape in case of fire from the dwelling house to a place of safety outside the building, capable of being safely and effectively used.

    TD would be within safe distance to front door. You can go by letter of law or common sense is used. Sitting room now unless you are sleeping in it you will be alert and awake, it’s on ground floor so TD would be ok unless the person has a disability.


    Apartments on 2nd, 3rd floors and upwards , the windows are not adequate for MOE. They base this on Part B in conjunction with BS5588 part 1 as the TD has to be within a certain distance to protected corridor and corridor is fire resisting construction.

    a)
    a habitable room should not be an inner room unless:
    (i) it has a floor level not more than 4.5 m above ground or access level; and

    ii) it is provided with a door or window for escape or rescue which complies with the provisions of 1.3.7.


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    #10
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    To be honest though if I had a window in a sitting room with just top sash opening I’d change it.


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    #11
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    mad m wrote: »
    B6

    A dwelling house shall be so designed and constructed that there are appropriate provisions for the early warning of fire and there are adequate means of escape in case of fire from the dwelling house to a place of safety outside the building, capable of being safely and effectively used
    That says a warning system is required. (obvious a fire detection is a must). How do you make the logical leap from there to it negating other sections that are also required?
    TD would be within safe distance to front door. You can go by letter of law or common sense is used. Sitting room now unless you are sleeping in it you will be alert and awake, it’s on ground floor so TD would be ok unless the person has a disability.
    TD may be a safe distance, but unless it is a protected pathway you can't say it's safe when the alarm goes.

    Eg. And inner sitting room that is access off another (access room).
    Fire starts in the access room.
    Alarm goes off.
    Person is inner room moves to escape, however his pathway via the access room is cut off by the fire.

    This is why inner rooms are required to have a second path of travel.
    Apartments on 2nd, 3rd floors and upwards , the windows are not adequate for MOE.

    Obviously. Which is why they have alternate means of escape.
    And in some cases two alternate means based on TD
    (a)
    a habitable room should not be an inner room unless:
    (i) it has a floor level not more than 4.5 m above ground or access level; and

    ii) it is provided with a door or window for escape or rescue which complies with the provisions of 1.3.7.

    A window or door that with the provisions of 1.3.7,

    1.3.7 requires a doors that give direct access to the outside or a fire escape window.

    An inner room, by definition doesn't have a door that connects it to the outside, therefore it must have a window.


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    #12
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,241 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    What is TD?

    In a typical 3-bed semi, is a sitting room an inner room and the hall / stairs the access room?


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    #13
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Victor wrote: »
    What is TD?

    In a typical 3-bed semi, is a sitting room an inner room and the hall / stairs the access room?

    TD is travel distance

    Hall/stairs is a stairway not an access room. Which has its own requirements.


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    #14
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Victor wrote: »
    What is TD?

    In a typical 3-bed semi, is a sitting room an inner room and the hall / stairs the access room?

    the hall / stairwell is considered to be the protected means of escape route... so the sitting rooms isnt an inner rooms as it gives direct access to the protected escape route.

    however imagine you had a 8 sq m office off that sitting room, with the only access to the office being through the sitting room.

    in that case the office is an inner room, the sitting room is the access room, and the office is required to have a compliant window or door as an alternative means of escape.


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    #15
    joebre
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭joebre


    mad m wrote: »
    To be honest though if I had a window in a sitting room with just top sash opening I’d change it.


    The sitting room has an operable window, in accordance with the size requirements.
    The bottom of the opening was more than 1100mm off the ground.


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    #16
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    joebre wrote: »
    The sitting room has an operable window, in accordance with the size requirements.
    The bottom of the opening was more than 1100mm off the ground.
    Without double checking I believe the window can be up to 1400mm from ground level.


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    #17
    joebre
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭joebre


    muffler wrote: »
    Without double checking I believe the window can be up to 1400mm from ground level.



    I think the drop on the outside can be 1400mm ?


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    #18
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    joebre wrote: »
    The sitting room has an operable window, in accordance with the size requirements.
    The bottom of the opening was more than 1100mm off the ground.

    Is there scope to put in a step below the window to reduce the 1100mm height? It should overcome the issue. Think of the practicality of escape through the window if you had to in the event of fire, and world that step assist in escape?

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



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    #19
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Charlie-Bravo wrote: »
    Is there scope to put in a step below the window to reduce the 1100mm height? It should overcome the issue. Think of the practicality of escape through the window if you had to in the event of fire, and world that step assist in escape?

    I wouldn’t like to see a step, but a general raised platform area could work.


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    #20
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Not a step, bit a landing should be ok.


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