Public Consultation on a Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS) in Ireland

phester28 wrote: »

Solar does not have a huge impact on your BER. In fact unless you can see the DEAP values (which the assessor wont give you) you dont know what (and to what magnitude), in their opinion is causing you to loose heat per each element of the house.

It's a fairly basic calculation that takes into account the orientation, angle and any shading. So 2.4kWh would be, at best, just over 2000 kWh of delivered energy. The BER is ultimately kWh per m2 so floor area of house will have a say in how big a contribution the PV makes to the BER. Not a BER assessor by the way.

unkel wrote: »

Let's say for simplicity sake you exported zero. And let's say as an investment you added another 4kwp array, then you'd export all of the production of that extra array, again for simplicity sake. That is about 4,000kWh in Dublin south facing. Let's say the fit is 9c. This will make you €360 per year

4kwp is about 11 current panels of 360W. Let's say you can get these at about €115 incl VAT each, let's say you buy an inverter for €350 and materials for €200, and DIY this job. Total cost €1815

Or a pay back period of just 5 years

That's a superb investment in my book

Do you think it's realistically going to be 9c?

I think that was the level of EI's microgen pilot but I can't see it being that high. 7c max is where I think it might fall

unkel wrote: »

Before the announcement I reckoned it was going to be about 5c, or whatever the wholesale rate was

But as KCross explained, there will be a base payment (of something like that), but there will also be a premium paid on top of this. Nobody knows how much these will be, but I'd say 9c in total is as good a guess as anyone's. When the real figures come out, we can adjust above calculation

Personally, I will likely increase my solar PV to avail of the FIT. Both as an investment but also as "the right thing to do" - my personal contribution to fight climate change

Sorry, had sorta skimmed through the thread a bit. Not questioning you....questioning my own thinking to see what I missed

phester28 wrote: »

So looks like he just amended the solar section (correctly). I just wish I new what elements to tackle to get the next 3kwh/m2/yr down

Close any open fireplaces permanently or with stoves. Replace bulbs with LEDs. Insulation as always, cavity pump etc... New boiler.

Of course it's optimistic. Did you miss that the spirit of my post is a low budget scenario? Not for someone lazy who just clicks "buy it now" on the first website they came across? Instead for someone who does a bit of research, does a bit of negotiation? But yeah, even after that the €200 is still a tad optimistic, I grant you that.. Mind, I bought my brand new Solis 3.6kW dual MPPT inverter for GBP220 shipped. So you could save €100 there to spend on the materials, so then we are talking €300

air wrote: »

I accept that, but no point giving people totally unrealistic expectations either.
I scrimped and saved on my own install and got some great deals but still went over those kind of figures.

Don't beat yourself up. I really do not want to come over as arrogant, but I am very good and / or lucky at getting the best possible prices. I missed my calling Have a look at my thread about buying my car in the EV forum

air wrote: »

you also need to allow for a REC to connect and certify your inverter

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough before. I am poor, or mediocre at best, at DIY. Not a chance I would have a go at connecting my systems to the grid myself! A REC connected my PV system to the grid. Another REC connected my battery inverter system to the grid.

air wrote: »

no doubt €340 for the export meter:eek:

Are you joking? All houses in Ireland will get a smart meter for free over the next while.

unkel wrote: »

Don't beat yourself up. I really do not want to come over as arrogant, but I am very good and / or lucky at getting the best possible prices. I missed my calling Have a look at my thread about buying my car in the EV forum



Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough before. I am poor, or mediocre at best, at DIY. Not a chance I would have a go at connecting my systems to the grid myself! A REC connected my PV system to the grid. Another REC connected my battery inverter system to the grid.



Are you joking? All houses in Ireland will get a smart meter for free over the next while.

Smart meter shows the export from my understanding at least someone posted how to get this detail up

mp3guy wrote: »

Close any open fireplaces permanently or with stoves. Replace bulbs with LEDs. Insulation as always, cavity pump etc... New boiler.

All done long ago. Fire place, LED bulbs. Internal insulation as walls are solid. Argon filled double glazed. extension and floors through original house are passive standard. 300mm of aeroboard. With a thermally broken slab that floats from the walls. Attic is a bit tough to do properly as its a small space. But Ive raised the rafters and have 4" of fiberglass.

Boiler and heating upgrades complete. There is nothing else I can do except external insulation which would cost over 10K and pay back a fraction of that over the next 10-20 years.

And yes the smart meters that are being rolled out (for free) do show when your exporting but I remember if they totalise it yet. But that would be a software modification. I posted the instructions I got a while back on the meter fitted

Calahonda52 wrote: »

You may not want to but it does occur like that, not just in this thread but right across boards which is surprising for a CMod.
It could be construed as being all about how better you are than the rest of the folk here as we try improve our lot and share out expertise with others, without focusing on the "I". The "I" is redundant in modern relations and relationships

Thanks for calling this as its starting to look like a pissing contest as to WHO knows more.
I personally have found this forum very helpful but one up man ship and who can piss higher is getting annoying.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I also asked that energy storage like batteries and EVs with V2G capability be considered as a renewable energy source

How do you justify this? What if you charge them up off a grid burning gas or coal? Unless you're suggesting people sell energy from their car battery after regen breaking it down a mountain.

mp3guy wrote: »

How do you justify this? What if you charge them up off a grid burning gas or coal? Unless you're suggesting people sell energy from their car battery after regen breaking it down a mountain.

It's justified because it'd never make financial sense to charge a battery from fossil fuel and sell it back.



When demand is low then gas power stations are throttled to prevent them providing too much energy, so the concept of gas power being cheap doesn't exist. You can't buy 'cheap' gas power at one time and sell it back when energy is more expensive


With wind and solar it makes sense because you can take power off the gridd when there's an oversupply (and by extension, cheap) and sell it back to the grid when demand is higher for a profit.


And, since you're displacing energy which would be supplied by a gas power plant, you're saving some carbon emissions overall

genuine question, and apologies if this has already been answered, but isn't everyone going to be selling to the grid during the day when demand is relatively lower, and then buying in the evening when demand is high.

From a supply balancing point of view would it be better to increase the subsidy for battery storage? (AIUI, currently batteries don't make sense from a payback perspective).

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I made the point regarding maximum export being difficult to stay under when you have a high consumer house and said the amount should be raised and tied to a diminishing CEP. The more you export, the less of a return you get, until you're back to the market rate, basic supply and demand

Isnt that somewhat contradictory though? If you have a high consumer house its more likely (not certain though) that you would be able to self consume it, which is what they are trying to encourage.... i.e. Your export limit is tied to the size of your array.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I made the point regarding maximum export being difficult to stay under when you have a high consumer house and said the amount should be raised and tied to a diminishing CEP. The more you export, the less of a return you get, until you're back to the market rate, basic supply and demand

Thats more admin though and makes it more confusing for end users to understand. Not that this document is easy to understand.

Price certainty is important, I think, at least during the initial uptake where people are questioning if its worth it or not.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I also asked that energy storage like batteries and EVs with V2G capability be considered as a renewable energy source

They are not renewable though unless you can prove where the energy came from, which you cant.

buzz11 wrote: »

Is it likely that the 6Kw micro-gen limit will be increased?

You can already go beyond 6kWp just that you have to jump through extra hoops to get permission from Eirgrid to connect up. They have to ensure the local infrastructure is good enough.

Based on how this consulation is worded they have put alot of emphasis on self consumption and most houses would not be able to self consume the vast majority of an install that is bigger than 6kWp.

So, my guess is that they wont change the current NC6 limits but you can still go bigger than 6kWp if you wish.