Any point reading the books?

Roger Hassenforder · 25-07-2017 7:07pm

*unwraps box set...opens 'A Game of Thrones'...

Vojera · 27-07-2017 10:59pm

How do the books compare to the likes of Robin Hobb's Elderlings books? There are about 15 of those now (albeit broken up into trilogies) and I've never found them boring or tedious.

I do hope to read ASOIAF at some stage, but realistically it'll be once the show is finished.

Sleepy · 28-07-2017 12:59pm

Robin Hobb and GRRM have both given quotes for each other's covers in the past so they certainly seem to rate each other's work.

A Feast for Crows (book 4) gets stick for being tedious but IMHO, it's mainly down to the gear shift in pacing: the first three books cover a period of years and are full of frenetic activity. Books 4 and 5 cover a much shorter timeframe and are much more subtle in their storytelling - there's a lot more reading between the lines required!

Roger Hassenforder · 28-07-2017 8:30pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Robin Hobb and GRRM have both given quotes for each other's covers in the past so they certainly seem to rate each other's work.

A Feast for Crows (book 4) gets stick for being tedious but IMHO, it's mainly down to the gear shift in pacing: the first three books cover a period of years and are full of frenetic activity. Books 4 and 5 cover a much shorter timeframe and are much more subtle in their storytelling - there's a lot more reading between the lines required!

there's nothing between the lines in the books I got...

Roger Hassenforder · 19-08-2017 10:17pm

couple of pages to go in the second book.
enjoying them so far, makes a lot more sense out of the characters and relationships, who's who to who etc., history of the place.

complaints:
GRRM seems to have a fixation on age- everyone is so young in the books, too young to be believable in certain respects.
& way too much description of what people and their horses are wearing.

Still though, would highly recommend people read them though. they're different and similar at the same time. I'll plow on...

The Golden Miller · 20-08-2017 1:07am

Just read the Wheel of Time instead.

Nody · 20-08-2017 5:58am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Just read the Wheel of Time instead.

If you want to read the same phrases over and over again...

"Nyanwei pulls her braid"
"<insert female character> adjusts her dress"
"<insert one of the three male characters think/say "if only <the other two characters> were here qw they always knew how to handle/understand women"
<Any Aeis Sedai> "Men!"
"I owe you tooh"
"Rand repeats the list of dead women to himself"

The list goes on but unlike GoT far to FEW pepople dies in the books and those that die have a tendency to be either resurrected or turn out not to have died anyway.

ixoy · 20-08-2017 10:59pm

Wait until GRRM's finished writing the series. Any day now. I'm fed up waiting so I think it'd be far better to be able to read it straight through instead of waiting 7+ years between books.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Just read the Wheel of Time instead.

Do not do this. Plenty of better series and Nody's reminded me of the tropes that just irritated me with this series.

awec · 21-08-2017 11:37am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

couple of pages to go in the second book.
enjoying them so far, makes a lot more sense out of the characters and relationships, who's who to who etc., history of the place.

complaints:
GRRM seems to have a fixation on age- everyone is so young in the books, too young to be believable in certain respects.
& way too much description of what people and their horses are wearing.

Still though, would highly recommend people read them though. they're different and similar at the same time. I'll plow on...

The books kind of go down hill from this point.

I haven't read the books in ages, have you had any chapters from the Iron Islands yet? They are the absolute worst.

bnt · 21-08-2017 12:22pm

I have read all the books, but they were heavy going and I don't recall every detail in them. My eyes were glazing over by the end, and I'm not going to return to them until the TV series is done and dusted. Whatever happens at the very end will allow me to see everything that came before in a new light.

awec · 21-08-2017 1:09pm

bnt wrote: »

I have read all the books, but they were heavy going and I don't recall every detail in them. My eyes were glazing over by the end, and I'm not going to return to them until the TV series is done and dusted. Whatever happens at the very end will allow me to see everything that came before in a new light.

I have read them once and the idea of reading them again doesn't really appeal to me.

spiralism · 21-08-2017 7:39pm

They're worth the read imo, but yeah he does tend to waffle on and the point about certain viewpoint chapters

Brienne especially

became a ****ing chore. You'd fly through five or six straight chapters of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei and then you'd be met with a brick wall of a chapter where he's ****ing on about the character in question meeting some dull as **** commoners with almost nothing happening and it would take you three times as long to get through it as the five or six chapters previously. Definitely could do with editing them better but i don't think he either does or listens to editors. There's sometimes hundreds of pages that could be trimmed without detracting majorly from the plot

Still though, at the same time, the plot is far more complex and there are more characters involved. You can tell where the show ran too far ahead of what GRRM had written as well and it lost a bit of intelligence so reading the books is worth it for that alone. However as is also said in this thread, it's massively frustrating as a book fan because of the uncertainty surrounding it, we're a decade off him finishing the series at current pace, if it all.

Roger Hassenforder · 21-08-2017 8:26pm

so when he does get around to finishing a new book, will it be based on the TV series...?

froog · 21-08-2017 8:56pm

if there was a decent chance he'd finish the series then they are well worth it despite the slog it gets into in the last two books. but he seems hell bent on doing everything except finishing the books. so i wouldn't bother it will only end up frustrating you.

Pugzilla · 21-08-2017 10:25pm

I'm going to wait for all the books to come out, if that ever happens.

Moist Bread · 22-08-2017 4:09am

Nody wrote: »

If you want to read the same phrases over and over again...

"Nyanwei pulls her braid"
"<insert female character> adjusts her dress"
"<insert one of the three male characters think/say "if only <the other two characters> were here qw they always knew how to handle/understand women"
<Any Aeis Sedai> "Men!"
"I owe you tooh"
"Rand repeats the list of dead women to himself"

The list goes on but unlike GoT far to FEW pepople dies in the books and those that die have a tendency to be either resurrected or turn out not to have died anyway.

Liamalone · 22-08-2017 5:28pm

You only get even money at the bookies for him to finish the books. Would still recommend though.

leggo · 24-08-2017 10:29am

*shrugs* I read the books after S6 to fill the void and loved them.

Don't get me wrong, AFFC was hard work. And Season 1 of the show is pretty much a word-for-word remake of AGOT, so you could almost start on book 2 if you wanted, but I love every second spent in this world so it was all just Thrones-porn for me: getting insight into what they're thinking, getting the history of the realm, getting a wider appreciation for the likes of the Iron Islands and Dorne etc. I even loved the stuff that's a bit of work in the books.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 11:56am

at a bit now where his style is really annoying.
Jamie and Brienne are heading for Kingslanding after Caitlyn (or whatever) sprung Jamie from prison.
While Jamie calls Brienne "wench" in dialogue, GRR also refers to her as "the wench", i.e. the wench saddled her horse... the wench glared at Jamie...
Makes no sense. A chapter of it.

*Ploughs on though, enjoying them overall.

Question (possible spoiler)

Ser Friendzone is just after lobbing the gob on Daenerys- Cant recall him doing it in the TV. Did he?

one armed dwarf · 24-08-2017 11:58am

I read the first one. I think you're just as well off to read something else and watch the series

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 12:00pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I read the first one. I think you're just as well off to read something else and watch the series

the first one was almost verbatim the TV show, but they're starting to diverge a bit slightly.
I might start skipping chapters of certain characters. Brienne is a dose at the moment.

ArmaniJeanss · 24-08-2017 12:19pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

at a bit now where his style is really annoying.
Jamie and Brienne are heading for Kingslanding after Caitlyn (or whatever) sprung Jamie from prison.
While Jamie calls Brienne "wench" in dialogue, GRR also refers to her as "the wench", i.e. the wench saddled her horse... the wench glared at Jamie...
Makes no sense. A chapter of it.

Thats kinda the point of the POV concept. We are seeing it through Jaimes eyes and at this moment all Jamie sees her as is 'the wench'. Its the narrative device that's used. It would be written differently if it was a pure third person neutral narrative. Later he won't think of her as the wench but may still call her by that name.

One thing to remember is you can't take as gospel everything that's written in a POV chapter, as by definition some of it will be the interpretation/opinion of that POV'er.

Interestingly when you get to on later books you'll see identical events play out from two different POV characters in different chapters, and how one persons interpretation can be incorrect.

awec · 24-08-2017 12:23pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

the first one was almost verbatim the TV show, but they're starting to diverge a bit slightly.
I might start skipping chapters of certain characters. Brienne is a dose at the moment.

The first book is the only one that the show aligns with completely. It goes more and more off-track as the books progress.

Personally, I have a hard time remembering what happened in the books vs what happened in the show.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 3:07pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Thats kinda the point of the POV concept. We are seeing it through Jaimes eyes and at this moment all Jamie sees her as is 'the wench'. Its the narrative device that's used. It would be written differently if it was a pure third person neutral narrative. Later he won't think of her as the wench but may still call her by that name.

One thing to remember is you can't take as gospel everything that's written in a POV chapter, as by definition some of it will be the interpretation/opinion of that POV'er.

Interestingly when you get to on later books you'll see identical events play out from two different POV characters in different chapters, and how one persons interpretation can be incorrect.

I get the POV narrative style.
I might not be explaining my criticism clearly!

I'll have another go:
At times GRR refers to Brienne as 'Brienne', and at others as 'the wench', all the while in the third person neutral. If it was consistent, fair enough, but its not, its all over the place:

example*:
"We'll stay here for the night" said Brienne.
Jamie and Brienne tied their horses outside the ruined cottage. "Hurry up wench" said Jamie. By God she's a surly looking wench. Jamie and the wench went into the ruined cottage. Jamie looked for food, while the wench lit a fire.

That's not POV narrative, that's just poor sloppy riting!
Its notable in this chapter more so than any other. It really stands out.

*don't have it front of me, but its this type of writing.

one armed dwarf · 24-08-2017 3:13pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

the first one was almost verbatim the TV show, but they're starting to diverge a bit slightly.
I might start skipping chapters of certain characters. Brienne is a dose at the moment.

Why read the books at that point though? I read a little of book 2 and didn't think it was good, but I didn't think book 1 was much either.

Not to get snobby but I feel like there's so much other stuff to do than soldier on reading some not very good books especially when the show is there also.

That's just my opinion anyway.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 3:56pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Why read the books at that point though? I read a little of book 2 and didn't think it was good, but I didn't think book 1 was much either.

Not to get snobby but I feel like there's so much other stuff to do than soldier on reading some not very good books especially when the show is there also.

That's just my opinion anyway.

hence my OP!
was wondering was it worth the bother reading the books...
I don't think they're bad so far

(Did you ever read Lord of The Rings? And watch the movies?
There's a whole world in them, that doesn't manifest itselfin the movies. By reading the books, and other tomes such as the Silmarillion you get a better feel for the overall story).

thieloo · 24-08-2017 6:04pm

I think it's just a very different experience and you get just more insight into the characters in the book. But the tv show still has a different emotional impact.

Liam O · 27-08-2017 4:04pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Why read the books at that point though? I read a little of book 2 and didn't think it was good, but I didn't think book 1 was much either.

Not to get snobby but I feel like there's so much other stuff to do than soldier on reading some not very good books especially when the show is there also.

That's just my opinion anyway.

yeah Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords, not very good :rolleyes:.

The show is a poor substitute for the books most of the time. Saved somewhat by very good casting, acting and big scenes being done justice because of the budget. Characters making nonsensical plays purely because they need the narrative to move in a certain convenient direction or they had characters that had their true motivations cut from the show and had to be retconned into a role that they had not planned for e.g.

Varys

.

I still watch because it's better than having it spoiled by the likes of Buzzfeed or other people on FB but they dropped the ball in certain instances that become clear when reading the books. The world feels like it's actually populated by real people and not just lords and ladies.

Tar.Aldarion · 29-08-2017 4:53pm

I love the books but as they most likely won't be finished (and god I hope they aren't being finished with the simplicity of the series) I wouldn't really recommend them. Much prefer some hardcore fantasy such as The Malazan series.

Ri_Nollaig · 31-08-2017 1:28pm

Its funny I thought for the most part the TV Show was a lot better than the books ...when it was still following them. Like a lot of people have said, there was a lot of characters that were complete chores to read through. The TV show did a good job in merging a lot of the roles of some characters in one or created new ones as well. Little things, like making more use of Bronn.
But there was definitely a notable drop in quality once it left the book's guideline, and the last season in particular just felt like it was rushing to the end now.
Still love it and can't wait for season 8 but wish they hadn't dropped those two episodes for this season.

I guess the other obvious problem is will they ever be finished?
Book 6 is, 5 years? late now I believe. "2018" being the last time a date was given. Never mind Book 7.
Not to mention it will be even more of a chore to read through a boring character if that arc has already been done for the TV show now.

Would be a shame if they don't get concluded as well but it is a possibility. Granted he could just be trolling everyone and release book 6 and 7 tomorrow for the craic.

Any point reading the books?

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