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Landlord Doesn't Provide References

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13

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    #62
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Exactly, we are in the same place over five years, surely we would have moved around if we were problem tenants. The whole thing is very unfair.

    Unfortunately that is the problem LLs face, the problem tenant who refuses to move around, but stays put causing problems, that is why references and/or contact details are so very important. Personally I always phone the previous LL, and have been called a number of times about former tenants.


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    #63
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    He just relented on the proviso that we stay until the end of year, we probably won't but at least we can give potential landlords his number and the older references.

    Thanks for the helpful advice.


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    #64
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    LeineGlas wrote: »
    He mostly likely isn't declaring rental income so does not want anything on record.
    That was my first thought


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    #65
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    crossmolinalad wrote: »
    Ive moved 6 times in 15 years and never got references
    Showed new landlords the rentbooks and always got their house
    Not many landlords give out rentbooks,.same way not many landlords give out letters confirming previous rent on property.
    I /we were landlords before the accusations start flying


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    #66
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    That was my first thought

    Suspicious minds.

    Unless the op was handing over envelopes of cash each month, it’s “on record”.


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    #67
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Lux23 wrote: »
    He was prosecuted for tax evasion, his name was in the paper.
    Touche


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    #68
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Is he still doing it :)
    OP never said LL is still EVADING TAX ,just that he is a tax evader ,and said he was prosecuted for it


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    #69
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Suspicious minds.

    Unless the op was handing over envelopes of cash each month, it’s “on record”.
    The OP pays it into a bank account every month
    They have no idea whose name is on that bank account
    Revenue may not have any provable links between the LL and the account in question


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    #70
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    The OP pays it into a bank account every month
    They have no idea whose name is on that bank account
    Revenue may not have any provable links between the LL and the account in question

    Someone else gets to pay tax on it then? I know when I set up a SO, I have to put the name of the account I’m paying into on it, maybe you don’t.


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    #71
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Someone else gets to pay tax on it then? I know when I set up a SO, I have to put the name of the account I’m paying into on it, maybe you don’t.
    We as landlords have had in the past legitimate reasons to ask tenants to change the account that the rent was paid into.
    All they needed was an IBAN


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    #72
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    We as landlords have had in the past legitimate reasons to ask tenants to change the account that the rent was paid into.
    All they needed was an IBAN

    I wonder was your tenant suspicious of that.


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    #73
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I wonder was your tenant suspicious of that.
    Why would they be
    They never asked
    One occasion was when NIB pulled out of Ireland
    Another was to keep track of a certain houses rent as 3 properties were paying the same rent each month.
    Many legitimate reasons to change bank accounts


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    #74
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    Tell him as you can't move you'll be moving on to HAP which he can't refuse and advise him he'll need a tax cert, the property will need to be inspected etc or he can just give you a reference.


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    #75
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    Why would they be
    They never asked
    One occasion was when NIB pulled out of Ireland
    Another was to keep track of a certain houses rent as 3 properties were paying the same rent each month.
    Many legitimate reasons to change bank accounts

    They shouldn’t, any more that someone suspecting a LL who doesn’t give references is evading tax, yet that was your “first thought”. There may be good reasons why the LL doesn’t want to give them, like being burned in the past, and bad tenant. Lucky your tenant doesn’t have a suspicious mind.


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    #76
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You must have seen the accounts he submitted to Revenue for taxation, did he just hand them to you, or did he leave them on your coffee table?

    My gf went in to check about getting rental assistance and the property isn't registered with prtb, I'd say things like that are a good sign they are not paying tax?
    She's afraid to inquire in case she has to move out.


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    #77
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    OP - the landlord dosn’t have to supply one possibly a similar reason as to why many companies won’t give them nowadays either which I also feel is pretty poor.

    Don’t you have receipts or copies of EFT for each month - compile these and the new LL should be happy enough to take them on face value. If you were there 5 years there should be better goodwill than that - you’d wonder - is there something you missed (although you sound reasonable & like good tenants) or does s/he just not want to loose you?

    As regards giving out letters I’d be wary of giving something out - too many people dishonest or
    familiar with photoshop nowadays and God knows where it could end up or who could end up using it. A verbal reference would be fair on you both but a letting agent would want a written one I’d guess to cover their ass and contractual requirement with their LL’s. Proof of monthly payments and visibility on full deposit returned might be the next best way to go.


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    #78
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭paul71


    [PHP][/PHP]
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    +1 , theres a horrible undercurrent in this forum at times of everyone assuming every landlord is a tax evader.

    Especially since is now practically impossible to evade income tax on rent.


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    #79
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    My gf went in to check about getting rental assistance and the property isn't registered with prtb, I'd say things like that are a good sign they are not paying tax?
    She's afraid to inquire in case she has to move out.

    Is your girlfriend paying her rent in cash? If she isn’t, then it is going into a bank account so the LL is paying at least some form of tax (DIRT) on it. It is hard to hide money from Revenue that is being paid into a bank account. The LL can register with the RTB at any time by paying a late registration fee, so no, it is not a sign that the LL is not paying tax. Your girlfriend should not in any way be afraid to apply for rental assistance, it makes no difference to her if he is registered with the RTB, she could still take a dispute to them if she needed to irrespective of whether he is registered.

    There is only one way to know if a LL is not paying tax, you read their income tax return, everything else is unfounded speculation


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    #80
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Can someone explain what the upside is for a landlord for giving a reference?


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    #81
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Can someone explain what the upside is for a landlord for giving a reference?

    Sense of goodwill in supporting a good tenant in their search for a new property and helping get rid of a bad tenant in the same search.


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    #82
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    They shouldn’t, any more that someone suspecting a LL who doesn’t give references is evading tax, yet that was your “first thought”. There may be good reasons why the LL doesn’t want to give them, like being burned in the past, and bad tenant. Lucky your tenant doesn’t have a suspicious mind.
    The majority of tenant don't care about the landlords business once he keeps the place in good nick ,is quick to respond to issues and leaves them alone.
    There is no valid reason not to provide a reference
    A simple reference stating XYZ rented from me for 5 years 2015-2020 is a reference
    You can pick up just as much from whats not said in a reference as you can from whats said


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    #83
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    paul71 wrote: »
    [PHP][/PHP]

    Especially since is now practically impossible to evade income tax on rent.
    the OP landlord managed to do it and was prosecuted for it and named in the papers
    There is always a way to evade tax.
    Its the scale that gets people caught


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    #84
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    paul71 wrote: »
    [PHP][/PHP]

    Especially since is now practically impossible to evade income tax on rent.

    Are properties registered with the RTB available to search online?


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    #85
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Are properties registered with the RTB available to search online?


    https://www.rtb.ie/check/index.html
    Not all properties are registered


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    #86
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    brisan wrote: »
    https://www.rtb.ie/check/index.html
    Not all properties are registered

    If they are not registered are they less likely to be paying tax


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    #87
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Happy4all wrote: »
    If they are not registered are they less likely to be paying tax

    According to some all landlords are fully tax compliant angels who rent out properties at a loss out of the goodness of their heart
    When we rented out properties it was a money making business which we treated as such and paid tax on .
    When it got too hard and too time consuming to make money we sold up and got out .
    Sold to 2 different landlords and they still complain that I should have told them what they were getting into
    The fact I was getting out should have told them enough.


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    #88
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    There is no valid reason not to provide a reference

    The LL gave one, he got burned before, perhaps for being too honest.
    brisan wrote: »
    the OP landlord managed to do it and was prosecuted for it and named in the papers
    There is always a way to evade tax.
    Its the scale that gets people caught


    There you go making assumptions again, the tax evasion may have been associated with another business, and Revenue require a settlement. You are still speculating about whether he is paying tax on rental income and given the fact that the op hasn’t stated it is being paid in cash, it’s unlikely that he would be able to avoid tax on money paid to a bank account.


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    #89
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The LL gave one, he got burned before, perhaps for being too honest.




    There you go making assumptions again, the tax evasion may have been associated with another business, and Revenue require a settlement. You are still speculating about whether he is paying tax on rental income and given the fact that the op hasn’t stated it is being paid in cash, it’s unlikely that he would be able to avoid tax on money paid to a bank account.

    Its not too big a leap to assume if he evaded tax on one business but not on another
    Just because the money is going into a bank account means nothing
    There are tax deductible expenses that can be claimed whether they are legitimate or not .
    All you need are reciepts


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    #90
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    Its not too big a leap to assume if he evaded tax on one business but not on another
    Just because the money is going into a bank account means nothing
    There are tax deductible expenses that can be claimed whether they are legitimate or not .
    All you need are reciepts

    It is difficult to evade tax on rent paid into a bank account, it is more likely to be on cash income, under declaration of VAT etc. Leaving that aside, you have absolutely no proof that this person, or anyone else is evading tax on rental income unless you see their accounts or their name is listed in connection with property rental income.

    Your own tenant could have posted here that there was something dodgy about you changing the account the rent is paid to, providing an IBAN only and no name, oh he is doing it to evade tax. This of course would be equally stupid.


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    #91
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Can someone explain what the upside is for a landlord for giving a reference?

    Most LLs expect to get references so if none give references, it's difficult to expect to get any


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