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Europcar ‘’Damage’’

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  • 26-06-2020 8:45am
    #1
    spuddiesal
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭


    Hi All. Bit of advice would be great. I rented a car of Europcar back in early March. I got a letter from a lawyer firm from Uk saying the car is damaged and I owe 800 pound. I never heard anything from Europcar. I’ve being chasing Europcar for details which I just revived yesterday. The damage is a tiny scratch which falls under ‘’light damage’’. In their Terms and conditions I owe 800 for light damage.

    I’ve got backed to the Lawyer firm requesting CCTV. The car was assessed 14 hours after i returned it. I left it there at 7pm and was assed at 9am. My argument will be the car got damaged after I left it back. As this was 3 months ago I’m assuming they don’t have cctv footage.
    So do you think If they can’t provide The CCTV footage do I have a case that the car was damaged After I left it back? I don’t have any photos after returning. There is nothing in their T&C’s about how long they have to look and review the car.

    And no I didn’t hit anything 😀


«1

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    #2
    SuperS54
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭SuperS54


    If you don't have photographs from when you picked it up and when you dropped it back then it's just your word against their's, and they have your credit card details.

    Go through the fine print on your contract if you still have it. If you dropped it back outside their manned hours it's likely the car is your responsibility until they open again.

    3 months does seem an exceptionally long time to have passed before being notified. Check with Europcars HQ rather than the rental location, there have been cases where staff have been helping criminals scam customers.

    Notify your credit card company to put a hold on any claims, if you are disputing liability.


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    #3
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Not much use to you now but third party excess insurance can be had for around €50 a year.


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    #4
    spuddiesal
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭spuddiesal


    SuperS54 wrote: »
    If you don't have photographs from when you picked it up and when you dropped it back then it's just your word against their's, and they have your credit card details.

    Go through the fine print on your contract if you still have it. If you dropped it back outside their manned hours it's likely the car is your responsibility until they open again.

    3 months does seem an exceptionally long time to have passed before being notified. Check with Europcars HQ rather than the rental location, there have been cases where staff have been helping criminals scam customers.

    Notify your credit card company to put a hold on any claims, if you are disputing liability.

    Thanks for your reply. They can’t take money of my card as it has expired thank god. I dropped it off outside when it was open. I have replied to their lawyers saying that I’m not paying anything until I see CCTV footage and photos of it with no damage.

    Also do you know what happens if there is a court case in UK and I don’t attend?


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    #5
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    What happened when you dropped it back.
    Normally they would come out and inspect it there and then.
    Did they say anything about when they were going to inspect it.
    Is it possible the scratch was there before you ever took the car but you didn't notice.
    Car hire firms have been known to charge multiple people for the same damage, though I thought it was mostly limited to smaller ones.


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    #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,636 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    spuddiesal wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply. They can’t take money of my card as it has expired thank god

    They can as they have authorisation from before the expiry - if you've a new card with the same bank it'll appear on that; if the account is closed you'll get a demand from the bank.


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    #7
    spuddiesal
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭spuddiesal


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    What happened when you dropped it back.
    Normally they would come out and inspect it there and then.
    Did they say anything about when they were going to inspect it.
    Is it possible the scratch was there before you ever took the car but you didn't notice.
    Car hire firms have been known to charge multiple people for the same damage, though I thought it was mostly limited to smaller ones.

    If gave the keys to the guy behind the counter and asked him does he want to check it. He said no and he will check in the morning when it is bright.
    I would say the scratch was there before hand but I don’t have any photos. I’ve requested a photo of the car without the scratch.

    Yes I’ve seen Europcar got fined 40 million for doings things like that before.
    It is a tiny scratch. It could possible come of when washed.


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    #8
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Treppen


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    What happened when you dropped it back.
    Normally they would come out and inspect it there and then.
    Did they say anything about when they were going to inspect it.
    Is it possible the scratch was there before you ever took the car but you didn't notice.
    Car hire firms have been known to charge multiple people for the same damage, though I thought it was mostly limited to smaller ones.

    That's the trick, in my experience I always wait for them to inspect and sign a document , dunno if it's still the case .
    Same as when I rent it initially, go around take a tonne of photos, go over the damage sheet as well.

    You need to factor this time into your flight times.
    If you leave in the keys and walk away your a sitting duck.


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    #9
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    The amount of messing that goes on in this industry is mind boggling. I recently had a Merc hired from them in Manchester. Before I returned it I took pics of the car just after I washed it and filled it a few hundred metres down the road and in particular a small mark on the alloy that was there before I got it. When I returned the car there was suddenly tyre damage Just over the mark on the wheel which I had just photographed and I was brought out to be shown it, they wanted a few 100 quid to replace both tyres which were close to wear marks anyway with no allowance for previous use. I let them go on for a while and then produced the pics I took of it 10 mins beforehand and ended up chatting to the manager who apologised profusely.

    I know lads who worked in this industry for a while and never once did they ever pay for fuel or tyres 😀 One lad boasted after he left that he had about 6 months free fuel built up in credit at the local petrol station 😂

    Always take photos before and after and make sure the condition report is updated before you leave if there’s a mark on the car that’s not listed.

    Joe Lycett done a great vid on this if you search on YouTube.


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    #10
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    This is an age old trick, happened to me twice on business trips. Letters arrived to work to say I’d scratched both cars. I was on a 3 week trip and came home once, hiring a different car on return. I told work it was BS I never scratched the cars, but they had photos(could be any feckkng car). Anyways I was the bold guy till about a month later the big wig MD got accused of scratching a car in same country. It ended with that hire company losing our entire corporate account, and we had thousands of employees.
    Anyways my tips are for future take photos when you pickup and drop the car. I know a guy who once scratched the crap out of a wing mirror and bought a scratch repair kit and fixed it up and fired it back! Kinda didn’t feel sorry for the hire car company.


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    #11
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Europcar are famous for this type of scam. The internet is full of reports just like this.

    I'd fight it left right and centre. Lodge complaint with european small claims court of they take that.

    Her's one report https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/car-hire-scams-europcar-employee-reveals-all/
    here's another https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/11/which-names-the-worst-car-hire-companies-for-sneaky-charges/
    and on and on and on and on.

    Avoid Europcar at all costs


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    #12
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    They’re bsatards. All of them.

    I’m in the lucky position of always having a really good camera with me any time I’m hiring a car. Hi-res pics are taken of all panels before I drive away. They’ve tried it on a few times, but I was able to come back with a date stamped picture of a scratch or dent that was already there.

    There was that one time when I edited a scratch back in though....


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    #13
    Bazzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Bazzy


    I had a nasty encounter with Europcar in Germany

    I was told at the desk the guy couldnt leave when he was booking it out and the car had no damage

    He had commented that i was the last car he was booking out that day so he had no reason to stay behind the desk

    I took many photos and videos of the car found some damage and he updated the rental agreement

    I put very little mileage on the car

    When I returned it they were fully open a young lad went to "check" the car the guy I had booked it off spoke with him and he came back in and asked did i drive fast to get back to the airport as his service technician had lifted the bonnet and there was a smell from the engine.

    Like a poster above I had filled the car down the road from the airport and had the receipt

    The younger guy went to get the car out of the multi storey car park as I was getting irate as we walked over the older guy asked me did I fill the car with petrol before I returned it.

    I told him we have an old irish tradition of putting diesel fuel into diesel engines

    The young lad tore down the car park tyres squealing very fast speed

    When he got the car out they couldn't open the bonnet I had to open it

    The oil dipstick wasn't seated all the way into the tube and they blamed that. We had a bit of a back and forth as I dismayed my anger at them trying to do me out of my 1500 deposit

    I got a receipt with the 1500 refund and went on my way.

    It bugged me a bit so I emailed the head office and told them how unhappy I was they emailed the station I booked it from and in the reply the genius behind the counter said i couldn't have understood what he said because he spoke to his colleague in Spanish

    I then asked was it policy to speak Spanish in Germany when he had the English flag and the German flag on his badge assuming he spoke both English and German.

    I don't think the head office meant to send me the email from them

    i replied and told them I was fluent in German, Spanish and English and know exactly what they said

    I went onto Google Translate and sent them slander in the 3 languages

    They escalated it to someone important and I got a €150 refund and a voucher for a free upgrade.

    I wouldnt let them away with it. I will be UBER cautious about booking again.

    The one way to solve it is to buy the extra insurance off them and drive whatever you rent as you please without worry


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    #14
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    If they didn’t inspect it as you dropped it back and inform you then and there of the damage, I’d fight it tooth and nail

    Had the same with Hertz a few years back. Dropped the car off, nobody working, and a few weeks later noticed €300 fee on my cc statement. They didn’t even notify me. I plagued them for weeks, including paying the service location (airport in the UK) a visit and made my feelings perfectly clear. They eventually refunded, but it was a lot of work and stress to get it back.


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    #15
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,326 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    fullstop wrote: »
    If they didn’t inspect it as you dropped it back and inform you then and there of the damage, I’d fight it tooth and nail

    Had the same with Hertz a few years back. Dropped the car off, nobody working, and a few weeks later noticed €300 fee on my cc statement. They didn’t even notify me. I plagued them for weeks, including paying the service location (airport in the UK) a visit and made my feelings perfectly clear. They eventually refunded, but it was a lot of work and stress to get it back.

    Now that is scary, that they took €300 without even notifying you. Wtf!


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    #16
    SuperS54
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭SuperS54


    fullstop wrote: »
    Had the same with Hertz a few years back. Dropped the car off, nobody working, and a few weeks later noticed €300 fee on my cc statement. They didn’t even notify me. I plagued them for weeks, including paying the service location (airport in the UK) a visit and made my feelings perfectly clear. They eventually refunded, but it was a lot of work and stress to get it back.

    Why stress yourself? Inform your credit card company the charge is erroneous and have them go talk to Hertz.

    Few years ago I hired a car in Ireland and two statements later a charge of 25 Euro appeared on my credit card from the hire company with no explanation. Informed CC company and they held the charge pending evidence from the hire company, never came so it was refunded. It was only when next hiring a car I noticed the contract listed a 25 euro admin fee for any speeding tickets the renter receives....I had gotten a speeding ticket on the previous rental so the charge actually was legitimate, sometimes you win!


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    #17
    SuperS54
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭SuperS54


    spuddiesal wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply. They can’t take money of my card as it has expired thank god. I dropped it off outside when it was open. I have replied to their lawyers saying that I’m not paying anything until I see CCTV footage and photos of it with no damage.

    Also do you know what happens if there is a court case in UK and I don’t attend?

    I think, as already pointed out, they can still charge the cc company as the card was valid when the contract was signed. Best to contact with your cc company and confirm, put a stop as necessary and make sure they have your correct address, email and phone number. Have them go fight your corner.

    I'd be surprised if it went to court but if you don't attend you'll likely be found liable in your absence.

    Keep insisting on photo's of the damage, insist the car was indicated to be OK when you dropped it off as you were not informed otherwise.

    Your biggest weapon may be the cc company, even if you no longer have a card with them.


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    #18
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    I alsways make sure to buy excess insurance before I hire any cars. It's very cheap and removes the worry and hassle of following up.


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    #19
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    Credit card companies won't fight these charges. I've had same problems in the past (but thankfully had insurance).

    Card co told me I'd pay 10eur for the charge back and would lose as the rental t&c covers pretty much whatever they want to charge.


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    #20
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Car Hire industry is rife with this. You have to photograph it extensively on pick up, and again on departure. Get them to come out and go over the car with you when leaving it back. We picked up a car from Firefly in Italy 4 years ago.
    "Do I need to check the car over with you?"
    "No, it's all fine, no damage reported."
    I went back to them again after bout an hour, with the plan of the car, with at least 50 areas damaged, or parts missing etc.
    I signed for the car inn the condition I got it, but the woman doing the hiring wasn't the last bothered. The people who witnessed me bringing back the condition sheet were though.......
    When I brought it back, same attitude again, until I told them their copy of the damage report was different than mine, and I wanted the car examined before being signed off. With an Italian sign and shrug off we went and checked it over.
    "How can you out out a report for a car that says no damages, yet there at least 50 areas damaged?"
    Shrug and walk away.

    Guaranteed I'd have been getting a bill for repair work that wasn't going to be done.


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    #21
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    spuddiesal wrote: »
    Hi All. Bit of advice would be great. I rented a car of Europcar back in early March. I got a letter from a lawyer firm from Uk saying the car is damaged and I owe 800 pound. I never heard anything from Europcar. I’ve being chasing Europcar for details which I just revived yesterday. The damage is a tiny scratch which falls under ‘’light damage’’. In their Terms and conditions I owe 800 for light damage.

    I’ve got backed to the Lawyer firm requesting CCTV. The car was assessed 14 hours after i returned it. I left it there at 7pm and was assed at 9am. My argument will be the car got damaged after I left it back. As this was 3 months ago I’m assuming they don’t have cctv footage.
    So do you think If they can’t provide The CCTV footage do I have a case that the car was damaged After I left it back? I don’t have any photos after returning. There is nothing in their T&C’s about how long they have to look and review the car.

    And no I didn’t hit anything ��
    I got caught with them back in 2006 for made up damage they found a few days after I dropped it back (unmanned drop off) hit my credit card, I tried to fight it, and even though they couldn’t produce any photos of the damage, and changed their story about what side if the car the damage was in (I got the car cleaned before dropping back to be certain there wasn’t any damage) I got nowhere with them. Watchdog did a story on them with lots of people reporting the same thing. I decided for my sanity to just drop it as it was making me stressed. Think it was £600 they hit me for.
    Their defense was that their contract says that I was responsible for any damage even if it occurred between dropping it back and it getting inspected, regardless of how long that was.
    I know I left the car in a corner of a car park with a wall on one side and their own minibus in the other.
    Lesson learnt, don’t deal with them again, and take out excess insurance.

    Not sure how successfully the lawyers could be in pursuing you. Are you sure they aren’t just debt collectors?


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    #22
    Jakey Rolling
    Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    I alsways make sure to buy excess insurance before I hire any cars. It's very cheap and removes the worry and hassle of following up.

    I have similar insurance the last few years for around €40/year.

    Never had to claim on it, but my understanding is that you have to pay out first, then claim back from the insurance. Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had to make a claim on this type of insurance for "damage" claims.

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



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    #23
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,843 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    I have similar insurance the last few years for around €40/year.

    Never had to claim on it, but my understanding is that you have to pay out first, then claim back from the insurance. Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had to make a claim on this type of insurance for "damage" claims.
    If there is a lot of scamming going on then I'm surprised the insurance companies don't clamp down on it.


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    #24
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,326 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Europcar are famous for this type of scam. The internet is full of reports just like this.

    In the interests of balance, I should point out that I've rented from Europcar on several occasions in France and Spain and never had any probems.

    The two most recent experiences were in the Canaries.... 2019 in Lanzarote and 2020 (late Feb.) in Gran Canaria. The car in Lanzarote was spotless when I picked it up and I returned it in the same condition so there was no issue.

    In Gran Canaria, the list of existing bumps and scratches was as long as your arm, the rear wheel arches and the rear bumper were covered in scratches and I was full sure that they would 'discover' new scratches when I brought it back but it passed the inspection so I got a sheet stating there was no new damage.

    You're asking for trouble if you bring the car back and let them fob you off with an excuse as to why they can't inspect it. Always get a report sheet, whether you agree with what it says or not. Because with no inspection, they can pass on the damage caused by the next guy to you. Which is why they couldn't be bothered to inspect it. Because at the end of the day, someone will pay for the damage. They just don't care who.

    OP, is there any reason you haven't told us as to why you're getting letters from a legal firm - why are lawyers involved?


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    #25
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,393 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    You should try AutoReisen in canaries. They never seem anyway bothered about their cars which is refreshing. You don't even give a card when booking, only on collection of the car.


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    #26
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,326 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    Never had to claim on it, but my understanding is that you have to pay out first, then claim back from the insurance. Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had to make a claim on this type of insurance for "damage" claims.

    Yes, that's how excess insurance works. The rental company don't care about any policy you may have, you pay them for any damage the same as if you had no cover, get a receipt for the payment and claim off the excess policy. Multiple posts here and on other fora say there's usually no problem.


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    #27
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    I have similar insurance the last few years for around €40/year.

    Never had to claim on it, but my understanding is that you have to pay out first, then claim back from the insurance. Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had to make a claim on this type of insurance for "damage" claims.

    Needed to payout almost two grand after managing to wedge a Renault Captur between a wall and a tree so badly in Italy the Firebrigade had to yank the car through 90 degrees to get us out. Not my finest hour! Limped into the car return place (Firefly) greeted with the chagrin of the attendant and was told the bad news.

    Six weeks later, despite my rank stupidity I was fully refunded by icarhireinsurance (whoever they are agents for). The only issue I had was they changed the car on me last minute and hand wrote it on the form. Had to get a printerd copy from Firefly Italy that wasn't the easiest task.


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    #28
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I've used autoreisen in the canaries. They were super to deal with. Probably the best I've ever used.


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    #29
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    callaway92 wrote: »
    Now that is scary, that they took €300 without even notifying you. Wtf!

    Worse again, when I rang them up to query it, they told me I damaged the car and when I asked them what the damage was they didn’t know. Took them a number of days to come back with a picture of a tiny stone chip on the bottom of the bumper, which wasn’t even big enough to warrant a charge anyway.


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    #30
    Galadriel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Galadriel


    TheDriver wrote: »
    You should try AutoReisen in canaries. They never seem anyway bothered about their cars which is refreshing. You don't even give a card when booking, only on collection of the car.

    We have been using AutoReisen for years, they are so laid back. We have never had an issue and they are very reasonable as well.


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    #31
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    I rent around 20 - 30 times a year and have rented all over the world (not including car sharing)

    Haven't had any of the problems mentioned above.

    Majority of the Car rental companies are fine. Only dodgy rental company I've encountered was Sixt in Sri Lanka, went over the bottom of the car with it up on a ramp and said there were scratches from stones on the bottom :pac:

    As stated above, take an excess policy for the year, you'll have peace of mind!

    insurance4carhire cover up to 6500 euros per year in Excess claims, I've used it twice in the past 2 years, paid out in 10 days.


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