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Woman rakes up 648 convictions

12357…15

Comments

  • #122
    Foweva Awone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Would be interested in the timing of that clause? and if it covers crime caused by addiction , or self harm while drink etc?

    I've been sectioned while drunk. Not for being drunk, but because I was considered to be a danger to myself at the time, and I was trying to self-discharge from a psychiatric hospital. So they invoked the section.

    You can't section someone specifically for addiction issues, but if someone is a danger to themselves or others, they can be sectioned regardless of any addiction issues. If that makes sense!

    Addiction and mental illness go hand in hand. If someone is on drugs and is threatening to go kill their whole family, it would be crazy to suggest that they couldn't be sectioned just because there's drugs in their system. If anything that makes them more dangerous!


  • #123
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    +1 for a death sentence but if anyone can point out a positive effect she has on society I'd reconsider.

    Not defending her, but I often wonder if people who casually say someone deserves the death penalty, would ever have the balls to carry it out themselves. I'd say usually they don't, and if not, they should reconsider


  • #124
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    GarIT wrote: »
    Simple solution. 1 month mandatory prison sentence with no early release per previous conviction. You'd die of old age before you got over 30 convictions.

    Do you think we have unlimited jail space in this country? Love all the 'simple solutions' that people come up with that they don't have to actually plan for and implement. Our jails are overcrowded thats why sentencing is often light or suspended for non violent offenses.

    Would love to hear some more simple solutions to the worlds ills though, perhaps we could solve global warming if we all just took a moment to blow on the earth like a bowl of hot soup.


  • #125
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    El_Bee wrote: »
    Guys, prison doesn't work, they tried prison in america and there's still crime over there. this poor woman clearly suffers from a Difficult home life, Substance abuse issues, Learning difficulties, Having a "bad time of it", she probably has a letter from a social worker saying that she swears she'll turn things around..... THIS time! so lay off the poor woman. No-one is perfect I'm sure you're all no angles, stop being busy bodies and worrying about other people stick to your own lives ok?

    I'm a right angle.


  • #126
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    py2006 wrote: »
    Yea, but we are right angles...

    D'oh!


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  • #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Odyssey 2005 wrote: »
    She wanted to do so and become a "useful member of society", her barrister said.

    Well,she's certainly proving to be useful to members of the law society.!
    In fairness to them, I don't think it pays very well to defend minor criminal acts in the District Court on a legal aid income. Most solicitors don't do criminal work, at least not in Dublin.

    I don't know the exact figures, but know anecdotes of people having to get the bus out to the sticks to represent a client in a minor matter in the District Court, and actually losing money in the process, or barely breaking even.


  • #128
    batman_oh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Do you think we have unlimited jail space in this country? Love all the 'simple solutions' that people come up with that they don't have to actually plan for and implement. Our jails are overcrowded thats why sentencing is often light or suspended for non violent offenses.

    Would love to hear some more simple solutions to the worlds ills though, perhaps we could solve global warming if we all just took a moment to blow on the earth like a bowl of hot soup.

    What about the guy recently with the hundreds of convictions and 3 previous hit and runs that didn't get any sort of reasonable jail sentence until his 4th hit and run where he finally managed to do some lasting damage. I assume he should have been let at it to keep driving over people once he didn't kill anybody? He was just unlucky


  • #129
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Foweva Awone wrote: »
    I've been sectioned while drunk. Not for being drunk, but because I was considered to be a danger to myself at the time, and I was trying to self-discharge from a psychiatric hospital. So they invoked the section.

    You can't section someone specifically for addiction issues, but if someone is a danger to themselves or others, they can be sectioned regardless of any addiction issues. If that makes sense!

    Addiction and mental illness go hand in hand. If someone is on drugs and is threatening to go kill their whole family, it would be crazy to suggest that they couldn't be sectioned just because there's drugs in their system. If anything that makes them more dangerous!

    Than ks; that was what I meant. Thankful there is still some kind of safety net. The man I wrote about had no such thing, and the sheer ignorance and ... of the Gardai. all he wanted was a safe place for the night ; did not care if it were jail or hospital . He had a knife he said; not a whisper of a threat to me or anyone, just desperate for help. I ended up carrying the phone numbers of the duty social worker with me; just to get some support for weekend discharges.

    Maybe that is part of the issue with this person? she feels safe inside.


  • #130
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You could argue that she has been failed by her parents and failed by the state to be rehabilitated. We could lock her up forever but aren't we supposed to be some kind of Christian based society that helps people? They don't have people like this in Norway because they spend so much money on trying to rehabilitate instead of punish people. We have so many problems we'd need to look at first like housing and health though so who's going to want to see lots more taxes spent on helping criminals? Therefore her sorry saga will probably continue till she's dead.


  • #131
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    looksee wrote: »
    At what point does criminality and recidivism segue into mental illness? And this is not an appeal or an excuse to 'let her off'; she is a liability to shopkeepers, the justice system, the gardai, and herself. There has to come a time when she should be removed to a controlled situation and some attempt made to figure out what is happening in her head that she continues to steal - an activity she is clearly not very good at judging by the number of times she has been caught.

    I predict you’ll get nowhere with this argument. But clearly there is something wrong with them and they (and society) need this problem to be addressed. It's clear as day that this person needs help. Whether it's drugs or trauma or kleptomania if whatever. They clearly need help.

    Prison would be expensive to the taxpayer and completely useless. A criminal hospital focused on rehabilitation would be expensive to the taxpayer and might actually be very useful to society. I already know which one must people will support. LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!


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  • #132
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Do you think we have unlimited jail space in this country? Love all the 'simple solutions' that people come up with that they don't have to actually plan for and implement. Our jails are overcrowded thats why sentencing is often light or suspended for non violent offenses.

    Would love to hear some more simple solutions to the worlds ills though, perhaps we could solve global warming if we all just took a moment to blow on the earth like a bowl of hot soup.

    Its fairly simply in this case, she has over 600 convictions, she should NEVER be free to walk the streets again.


  • #133
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Moved from AH > CA.


  • #134
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Do you think we have unlimited jail space in this country? Love all the 'simple solutions' that people come up with that they don't have to actually plan for and implement. Our jails are overcrowded thats why sentencing is often light or suspended for non violent offenses.

    Would love to hear some more simple solutions to the worlds ills though, perhaps we could solve global warming if we all just took a moment to blow on the earth like a bowl of hot soup.

    It begins.. Here are the don't jail them fix the issue brigade. The same brigade that now stand and watch Ireland become a lawless kip. Give it time people and you'll be living in one of these no go areas soon...


  • #135
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,053 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    She's not very good at stealing.


  • #136
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    It begins.. Here are the don't jail them fix the issue brigade. The same brigade that now stand and watch Ireland become a lawless kip. Give it time people and you'll be living in one of these no go areas soon...

    Name some no go areas in Ireland


  • #137
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Name some no go areas in Ireland

    lol. Looking forward to the answer to this.


  • #138
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    lol. Looking forward to the answer to this.

    Is there anywhere worse than Darndale? I had to go in there recently and I wasn't shot or given a hiding


  • #139
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Could the businesses and people she robs from next time take a case against the judge/state for failing to protect them. This is a woman who does as she likes and is let off with no sentence. Surely they know she is likely to reoffend and to protect themselves the maximum sentence should have been given? At the very least it would keep her off the streets for 12 months or whatever? It’ll be the longest time she has gone without committing a crime.


  • #140
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!
    And how much does it cost to imprison a person as opposed to the financial cost to retaining them in the community?

    Is she making, or stealing 100k per annum?

    Because that's what prison will cost. Imagine if we spent anything close to that on actually getting her rehab and some basic skills in... anything?


  • #141
    Ronaldinho
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Not defending her, but I often wonder if people who casually say someone deserves the death penalty, would ever have the balls to carry it out themselves. I'd say usually they don't, and if not, they should reconsider

    I didn't say it casually. Only an eejit would form the opinion I have without giving it a lot of thought.

    And yes - I'd carry it out and sleep easy. Edit: Actually, not so sure now about that. No small thing to take someone's life and hard to know how it would affect you, especially when you look at the mental strain ex-soliders take.

    To add, I would only be supportve of the death penalty for ~lifetime criminals, people who have amassed a long list of convictions and are beyond help. Everyone can make a mistake or go though a rough patch in their lives. Some cases such as this though are beyond the pale.


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  • #142
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    Are we as a nation to easily scammed?

    It just strikes me that like a lot of things in Ireland the whole legal system is simply designed to extract the most money from the taxpayers as possible.

    It's absolutely does not serve as a deterrent too criminals but rather a deterrent to the middle class so they pay there taxes and such.

    It's simply a scam, and gotten to the point of ridiculousness. It's all going to continue to get more expensive and not serve anyone any good apart from the ones making their profits.

    How long will Ireland put up with being scammed?

    one idea is - Prison's could be designed as proper rehabilitation centers, with labor camps for the hardened criminal that refuse to rehabilitate. (Labor camps as in they all work to grow their own food and maintain the prison to a livable standard). Costs on tax payer should be reduced to a bare minimum. (They should be denied all non essential goods such as tv's, xboxes, drugs, cigs, alcohol)


  • #143
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    And how much does it cost to imprison a person as opposed to the financial cost to retaining them in the community?

    Is she making, or stealing 100k per annum?

    Because that's what prison will cost. Imagine if we spent anything close to that on actually getting her rehab and some basic skills in... anything?

    You must realise that (s)he is taking the piss?


  • #144
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    And how much does it cost to imprison a person as opposed to the financial cost to retaining them in the community?

    Is she making, or stealing 100k per annum?

    Because that's what prison will cost. Imagine if we spent anything close to that on actually getting her rehab and some basic skills in... anything?

    This is it. The mere notion that we have attempted to rehab prisoners is absolutely ridiculous. There are a few nods towards rehabilitation but the money is spent on warehousing them in an environment full of drugs and criminals. So recidivism is the expected outcome.

    So we'll just pay another 1,300-1,850 per week the next time they get locked up. Some people want to lock them up for longer so we just pay for the longer sentence. That approach assumes they will be back in prison and is willing to pay for prison, but not rehabilitation. It cares nothing for society.

    Some people put punishing the individual ahead of the safety of society. They'll spunk taxpayer money on punishment but are tight as tuppence when it comes to rehabilitation or preventive programmes.


  • #145
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    You must realise that (s)he is taking the piss?

    LOL. You think arguing for criminal hospitals and rehabilitation is taking the piss?


  • #146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    You must realise that (s)he is taking the piss?
    I think she has no interest or capacity in/to single-handedly turning her life around, and to that extent she is taking the piss.

    The question for us is whether we continue to throw money at the problem, knowing we won't fix it? Definition of insanity, etc.

    What do you want to do, throw her in prison for 10 years at a cost of over a million euro, prolong her life and expect her to be healthy and wise upon release? Its probably cheaper to keep her out in society, in the long run, and allow the inevitable to happen (without wanting to be too macabre).

    If we want to address problems like this, we need to radically change our approach to failed methods.


  • #147
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I think she has no interest or capacity in/to single-handedly turning her life around, and to that extent she is taking the piss.

    The question for us is whether we continue to throw money at the problem, knowing we won't fix it? Definition of insanity, etc.

    What do you want to do, throw her in prison for 10 years at a cost of over a million euro, prolong her life and expect her to be healthy and wise upon release? Its probably cheaper to keep her out in society, in the long run, and allow the inevitable to happen (without wanting to be too macabre).

    If we want to address problems like this, we need to radically change our approach to failed methods.

    It would be cheaper in the individual case to leave her on the street but is very costly to society as it sets the precedent thst the state won't intervene. It would take a lot of 10 euro bottles of wine to equal the cost of the police, trial, prison induction procedures and actual imprisonment. Up to 1,850 euro week.

    If this kind of huge money is going to be spent, it should at least offer significantly reduced likelihood of recidivism through rehabilitation of whatever kind is most appropriate.


  • #148
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It would be cheaper in the individual case to leave her on the street but is very costly to society as it sets the precedent thst the state won't intervene. It would take a lot of 10 euro bottles of wine to equal the cost of the police, trial, prison induction procedures and actual imprisonment. Up to 1,850 euro week.

    If this kind of huge money is going to be spent, it should at least offer significantly reduced likelihood of recidivism through rehabilitation of whatever kind is most appropriate.

    How about we offer free rehab classes after your 650th conviction!


  • #149
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    How about we offer free rehab classes after your 650th conviction!

    Oh I'd suggest intervention long before that. Investment in early intervention would be much more beneficial to society buy might not satisfy those who enjoy the punishment aspect. Fewer crimes would mean fewer punishments, unfortunately for some.


  • #150
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Oh I'd suggest intervention long before that. Investment in early intervention would be much more beneficial to society buy might not satisfy those who enjoy the punishment aspect. Fewer crimes would mean fewer punishments, unfortunately for some.

    I don't enjoy punishment, not sure where you're getting that from, but if it suits your narrative then you can keep suggesting it. So when would you suggest intervening? 4th, 10th or 20th offence? And who exactly will intervene and what will they do? As far as I can see now in Ireland we have no punishment and no intervention which as I pointed out earlier means a lawless society.


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  • #151
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    I don't enjoy punishment, not sure where you're getting that from, but if it suits your narrative then you can keep suggesting it. So when would you suggest intervening? 4th, 10th or 20th offence? And who exactly will intervene and what will they do? As far as I can see now in Ireland we have no punishment and no intervention which as I pointed out earlier means a lawless society.

    It's the fact that you keep forgetting my answer to this question that leads me to think you have no interest in information about anything except the punishment.

    So I'll answer your question (as I do in all the threads where you ask a variation of this question). I would suggest a multi pronged approach which deals with the causes of crime as well as the consequences of crime. A research led approach focused on prevention, then a justice system which focuses on punishment, rehabilitation, restorative justice and public safety.

    I actually care about victims. The fewer victims that better. And those people who are victimised should have a system which prioritises restorative justice but first and foremost, it should prioritise preventing crime by addressing the causative factors which lead to crime.

    So, What do you suggest?


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