How common is it for people to never find an other half or have kids?

iamwhoiam · 11-07-2019 10:20pm

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

The Handmaid's Tale! :eek:

Blessed be the fruit

Gimme A Pound · 11-07-2019 10:22pm

anewme wrote: »

Plenty of things are the best feeling ever. It depends on what your triggers zre.

Ive no children, no interest.

During weekends, I am a support mail volunteer.

When you get feedback from somebody you've helped, thats the best feeling ever.

When my Mum tells the dog Im coming to visit and she sits excitedly waiting at the window till I show up and goes mad barking as i pull in the car, thats the best feeling ever.

But all I'm saying is that people who don't have children can't dispute that it's the best feeling ever when their child is born. I'd say it is. But I'll never know as i don't want children - never did (tried to make myself as I really felt I should, but never developed those feelings) so I won't miss what I don't know.

cannotlogin · 11-07-2019 10:27pm

Austria! wrote: »

cannotlogin wrote: »

Why do people never feel sorry for the men whose wife/partner cleared just settled for them just so they could have children? Panic buying. It's very common too.

Why would I feel sorry for them? That's what I'm hoping for.

With a sense of humour like that, they may not be settling! ;-)

Toto Wolfcastle · 11-07-2019 10:36pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Watch your own child being born and you would feel differently

Very hard to put into words but it was like everything aligned at that moment something programmed deep inside handed down for millions of years

Nothing comes close and never will

To you. For me, nothing will ever come close to the feeling of love and closeness I felt towards my husband in the week following our failed IVF. When you're at your saddest and most vulnerable, it's incredibly powerful to look at the man you married and realise that he's everything you need in life. I always wanted children, but I very quickly realised that I'm fulfilled with our without.

[Deleted User] · 11-07-2019 11:03pm

the thing about advice/comments like "watch your child being born and you'd feel very differently" is that its not much feckin good finding out that way that you still disagree!

there are millions of feckless parents in the world who - even if they felt exactly as described the moment each newborn was put in their hands- still ought not be bestowed with any particular merit or importance for demonstrating a biological ability that they share with most other creatures on the planet.

there are millions of parents who are a pleasure to watch in that role and are everyday examples of the best of humanity- giving of themselves for the benefit of love.

there are millions of people who dont have kids who fall all over the spectrum of human happiness with their lot.

humans are humans, in short, doing human stuff

its really not worth getting het up over, and its such a fundamental question that there is no answer that works for anyone but the individual.

Greyfox · 11-07-2019 11:05pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I became a father at 22 and the moment I watched my daughter come into this world I knew that this is the reason we are put on this earth

money flash cars best of clothes all along the way but nothing will ever compare to that night

I dont want kids and ive no intetest in flash cars or fancy clothes. But what i do like is having the the option of doing new and different things, meeting new people and having free time. You sound like a lovely guy and it sounds like you have a lovely daughter... my fear is IF you start to miss having time to yourself there's no way back for you

pgj2015 · 11-07-2019 11:10pm

I feel this world is moving in the wrong direction, robots taking a lot of jobs, people obsessed with smart phones and social media, i hope im gone before it gets too unbearable so i couldn't bring kids into the world to face what is coming, i would feel bad if i did that.

[Deleted User] · 11-07-2019 11:20pm

^^ it's only the kids that are going to save it..

circadian · 11-07-2019 11:42pm

As a parent of two kids, I'm eternly knackered. I love them and wouldn't change it for the world.

At the same time I can be envious of people who are childfree. Living life with very few hindrances or restrictions, I can certainly appreciate both lifestyles.

It's a huge commitment to have children and anyone getting preachy about how it give you purpose or some other **** needs to wise up. Noone is under any obligation to do anything.

nthclare · 11-07-2019 11:51pm

Never been married myself or lived with anyone, my sons nearly 20, im 43.

Quite happily single, as a lot of my female friends who have younger kids and are single find it very hard to get a connection.

Their only spare time is when the dad takes the kids every second weekend, they meet nice guys but eventually the guys burn out because they want to be spontaneous now and again.
But spontaneity doesn't mix with relationships...

When the youngest reaches 18 all that changes and they've no problem meeting good guy's.

Its sad really and frustrating for women on the dating scene,when they're full time parents.

I've no interest at the moment, its not hard to get a date but I like to be solo.

Maybe in a few years ill meet someone who's similar to myself, spontaneous adventurous and like bushcraft and the great outdoors....

Im not into the drinking scene etc, like good food though and hippie gatherings, farmers markets and other ferral activities....

Born to be wild

SirChenjin · 11-07-2019 11:53pm

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

To you. For me, nothing will ever come close to the feeling of love and closeness I felt towards my husband in the week following our failed IVF. When you're at your saddest and most vulnerable, it's incredibly powerful to look at the man you married and realise that he's everything you need in life. I always wanted children, but I very quickly realised that I'm fulfilled with our without.

+1 to this.

Blaizes · 12-07-2019 12:04am

chuchuchu wrote: »

rireland wrote: »

I often meet some women in their mid 30's who are single and planned on having kids. How common is it for them to not have them?

I feel bad for them.

I was on a date with one who was 35 and she said she had planned on having kids but it's too risky for her now.

Even men and other women, how common is it for them to never find someone they love?

I think women who really want children usually find a good guy quickly and settle down early in life, you wouldnt find them out on a friday/saturday night partying in the club, its just a quieter family orientated lifesyle they want. The other women tend to be career women, and prioritise their career/goals first and will put off having children until sometime in their thirties, because they want to be free in their twenties to travel and party and what not, without the responsibilities of raising children. There differently is a risk to having children later in life, for example a child's risk of autism rises with the age of the child's mother. I think older people will tend to reason things out, unlike some young people who may not know what their getting themselves into. And if you do reason it out - having children costs a lot of money and there is a risk too that the child may have a disability, or the relationship breaks down... they are many sane reasons to not have children. I think having children is a sacrifice that will pay off later in life, I knew a daughter who took care of her mother until death. So you take care of the children when their younger and they will take of you when your old and sick, thats the circle of life.

While I would agree with some of your points, I wouldn’t agree that having children is a sacrifice that will pay off later in life in that they will take care of you when you are old. I hope nobody would have children for that reason and certainly in Ireland now when people have kids I think it’s the furthest thing from their mind. But probably was a thing in Ireland in the past like giving the farm to the eldest son who would then look after the parents. In other cultures too female infanticide, as boy babies were seen as superior, being stronger and could provide Labour to support the family.

[Deleted User] · 12-07-2019 12:43am

Blaizes wrote: »

While I would agree with some of your points, I wouldn’t agree that having children is a sacrifice that will pay off later in life in that they will take care of you when you are old.

Youre living in dreamland if you believe that. My mum lives 3 hours drive from me and 2 hours from my brother. We. Both have families of our own and mortgages to pay and she won't budge from her house. So she has no one to take care of her. I don't expect my kids to take care of me when I'm old

chuchuchu · 12-07-2019 12:44am

Blaizes wrote: »

While I would agree with some of your points, I wouldn’t agree that having children is a sacrifice that will pay off later in life in that they will take care of you when you are old. I hope nobody would have children for that reason and certainly in Ireland now when people have kids I think it’s the furthest thing from their mind. But probably was a thing in Ireland in the past like giving the farm to the eldest son who would then look after the parents. In other cultures too female infanticide, as boy babies were seen as superior, being stronger and could provide Labour to support the family.

For whatever reasons the children are born, they most certainly do have an obligation to take care of their parents as they age. This may not be in the form of money, but for well being and health. I know a friend who's mother had a stroke, she became incoherent, and had a long path to recovery. Only for her family, nobody would have really cared for her, as everybody else was busy with their own lives. Her children took turns visiting her in hospital and ensured she was being treated right, when she got out of hospital, they hired a person to take care of her in her home while they were out working. This included alot of interviewing to get the right person. No way could all this be done if she was on her own. And you hear too many stories of neglect in hospitals and nursing homes. Alot of old people die early too without purpose in their life, their children/grand children and seeing them grow, can give them alot of purpose and feeling of belonging in life.

chuchuchu · 12-07-2019 1:05am

chuchuchu wrote: »

For whatever reasons the children are born, they most certainly do have an obligation to take care of their parents as they age. This may not be in the form of money, but for well being and health. I know a friend who's mother had a stroke, she became incoherent, and had a long path to recovery. Only for her family, nobody would have really cared for her, as everybody else was busy with their own lives. Her children took turns visiting her in hospital and ensured she was being treated right, when she got out of hospital, they hired a person to take care of her in her home while they were out working. This included alot of interviewing to get the right person. No way could all this be done if she was on her own. And you hear too many stories of neglect in hospitals and nursing homes. Alot of old people die early too without purpose in their life, their children/grand children and seeing them grow, can give them alot of purpose and feeling of belonging in life.

And I mean old like 70's, 80's, 90's... most people can take care of themselves up to retirement age

Optimalprimerib · 12-07-2019 6:42am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Different people have different priorities - I personally feel people prioritise careers way more than they should. Sure it's nice to have money, but you also need time to spend it and someone to spend it on. Money on it's own is nothing to write home about.

Kids are what make life worth living, (well mine anyway) not holidays or cars, certainly not a job, or in fact anything material. We're all going to end up in a box at the end of the day (metaphorically speaking, I'd be fairly sure most of us will see tomorrow:eek:)

No one ever lies on their death bed wishing they'd worked longer hours!

Kids are like dishwashers, unless you have one, you don't need one.

d8491prj5boyvg · 12-07-2019 8:12am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Yeah, dealing with shîtty nappies and tantrums makes life complete. Each to their own.

Yeah. Fortnite gives life meaning for me

suicide_circus · 12-07-2019 8:35am

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

To you. For me, nothing will ever come close to the feeling of love and closeness I felt towards my husband in the week following our failed IVF. When you're at your saddest and most vulnerable, it's incredibly powerful to look at the man you married and realise that he's everything you need in life. I always wanted children, but I very quickly realised that I'm fulfilled with our without.

that actually brought a lump to my throat. but, with respect, what other way could you feel? your sanity and happiness demanded it.

Blaizes · 12-07-2019 10:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

Blaizes wrote: »

While I would agree with some of your points, I wouldn’t agree that having children is a sacrifice that will pay off later in life in that they will take care of you when you are old.

Youre living in dreamland if you believe that. My mum lives 3 hours drive from me and 2 hours from my brother. We. Both have families of our own and mortgages to pay and she won't budge from her house. So she has no one to take care of her. I don't expect my kids to take care of me when I'm old

You need to re read what I wrote what I said was that people should not beget children with the expectation said children will nurse the into old age. That would be the most narcissistic reason ever for having children.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-07-2019 11:11am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

But all I'm saying is that people who don't have children can't dispute that it's the best feeling ever when their child is born. I'd say it is. But I'll never know as i don't want children - never did (tried to make myself as I really felt I should, but never developed those feelings) so I won't miss what I don't know.

Do you know, two friends of mine who are dads told me how freaked out they were when their kids were born because they were ready and waiting for this overwhelming wave of love and purpose and everything to hit them...and it didn't. Both great dads who went on to bond perfectly normally with their newborns and would die for their kids, one of them is a stay at home dad to his two now but they spent the first few weeks worrying there was something seriously wrong with them because they bought into the "the second you see your child everything changes" narrative. It's not the same for everyone who has kids even.

markodaly · 12-07-2019 1:28pm

I have lived a very hedonistic self-indulgent life before my own kids were born. Sure in your 20's and 30's kids are the last thing on your mind, but all the travelling, sex, drink, drugs, the partying wears thin after a while. You begin to realise is that it? Is this me for the next 50 years until I **** myself in a old folks home and die?

I suppose one becomes ready to move on from the self-indulgent lifestyle and start something else, something harder but ultimately much much more rewarding than a night on the beer, or a line of coke.

Seeing your own child for the first time after it being born is something indescribable, that cannot be put into words. You realise that you are part of something much bigger than yourself and that in an age of the self, having kids is one of the last vestiges of true sacrifice.

JDD · 12-07-2019 2:29pm

I suppose one becomes ready to move on from the self-indulgent lifestyle and start something else, something harder but ultimately much much more rewarding than a night on the beer, or a line of coke.

While I'm delighted that you are happy with your choices, I think "self-indulgent" is an unfortunate choice of words.

I have three kids. Always wanted them, so if for whatever reason it didn't happen for me I probably would feel that there was something missing from my life.

I didn't get the "bam!" moment at birth with any of them. Maybe because I had C-sections and the usual hormones weren't flooding around, maybe it wouldn't have happened even with no C-section. In fact, I only got a "bam!" moment with my first, a few weeks in. The other two the love was a slow burner, over the days and weeks after birth. At no point have I ever felt "ahhh, now life makes sense, now I am fulfilled".

I'm happy with my choices, but there's certainly a part of me that envies the child-fee life of some of my friends. How would I feel now, if I hadn't been 100% convinced I wanted children before I had them? Maybe I would feel the same way - the same slow burner love would have happened, and I'd envy the child-free life but not so much that I'd want things differently.

But I f*cking doubt it.

I'd probably regret having children. And I'd never be able to say it publically so I'd internalize it at take it out in small ways so that my kids would grow up to be baggage filled little ****s. So what I'm trying to say is, if someone isn't 100% convinced they want kids, absolutely don't do it. There's nothing self indulgent about concentrating on your own life. We're all born, we all die, and in between we try to make the world a better place when we leave it than when we entered it.

Having children doesn't necessarily mean that you'll end up a net contributor to the world, and it is certainly less likely if you weren't convinced you wanted them in the first. So I say don't listen the "I was a self-obsessed **** who never wanted children before my surprise baby came along. I had some sort of religious epiphany on the day of the birth, and I now feel so connected to my purpose in life, that I cannot understand how I even existed before".

Because if that happened, well, fantastic for you. But for every one of you, logic dictates that there are five others who realise they just set fire to their lives and there's no way back.

And incidentally, I'm retiring to Florida when I'm 70, so I'm absolutely not counting on my kids to take care of me. I hope they end up travelling the world without even thinking about having to be close to take care of their parents.

Wibbs · 12-07-2019 2:37pm

Indeed JDD, for some I've known having a kid was pretty self indulgent of them. Never mind that unless you were the captain of the Exxon Valdez the biggest impact you will have on the planet's environment is having a child.

But that's by the by, it's about the strongest biological imperatives there are. At a very basic level your "job" is to grow up make little copies of yourself, die, hopefully getting the little copies to the point where they can make further little copies of themselves and so on. Your body is primed for it at a very deep level. That feeling of "you are part of something much bigger than yourself"? Mostly oxytocin and other neurotransmitters flooding the oul brainbox. A natural high as it were. And fair enough.

markodaly · 12-07-2019 2:43pm

JDD wrote: »

While I'm delighted that you are happy with your choices, I think "self-indulgent" is an unfortunate choice of words.

Perhaps, but for many, it rings true. Sure, there are people out there who devote their lives to a cause or a vocation bigger than themselves but they are rare.
Many childless couples I know just want to live a good life, with cruises, nights out, and pay for expensive experiences. Whatever floats their boat but is that all is there to life? A front row seat to see the Rolling Stones? I doubt it.

I know many older people who didn't have kids and have rich fulfilled lives.
I also know more older people who didn't have kids, who end up really lonely and depressed.

It's a mixed bag really. I do not know one single person who hates or regrets having kids, even though it may have been a slow burn for them.

Again, whatever floats one's boat, but people sure get defensive about the issue, to the point they come across as insecure.

markodaly · 12-07-2019 2:45pm

Wibbs wrote: »

And fair enough.

What's the saying?

"Knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing."

If one boils down life to mere atoms and chemical reactions in the brain, it says more about that person's own nihilistic outlook than anyone else.

Again, as I said, people sure get insecure about this topic.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 12-07-2019 2:46pm

JDD wrote: »

While I'm delighted that you are happy with your choices, I think "self-indulgent" is an unfortunate choice of words.

Oh I'd say it was a pretty deliberately inflammatory choice of words.

jam_mac_jam · 12-07-2019 2:48pm

markodaly wrote: »

Perhaps, but for many, it rings true. Sure, there are people out there who devote their lives to a cause or a vocation bigger than themselves but they are rare.
Many childless couples I know just want to live a good life, with cruises, nights out, and pay for expensive experiences. Whatever floats their boat but is that all is there to life? A front row seat to see the Rolling Stones? I doubt it.

I know many older people who didn't have kids and have rich fulfilled lives.
I also know more older people who didn't have kids, who end up really lonely and depressed.

It's a mixed bag really. I do not know one single person who hates or regrets having kids, even though it may have been a slow burn for them.

Again, whatever floats one's boat, but people sure get defensive about the issue, to the point they come across as insecure.

Nobody is going to admit they regret having kids, even if you did, you would be treated as a monster.

There are loads of people miserable because of their kids or having to stay in awful relationships, the idea that only childless people have regret about their choices is very naive.

Wibbs · 12-07-2019 2:51pm

markodaly wrote: »

It's a mixed bag really. I do not know one single person who hates or regrets having kids, even though it may have been a slow burn for them.

I have met a few M. Not hate, too strong a word, but some with resentment alright. More women in that group, probably because they had to give up more. While others all men, because it's easier for them to do so, who left early on. A few have zero contact with their kids and apparently don't care, others are part time parents, play with the kid for a few hours and hand them back type of thing. Others who are workaholics and barely see their kids at the weekend(with a couple who wouldn't be pushed if that contact was even shorter) While sometimes it's the women who leave, it's rarer, but there are enough kids out there who've grown up without fathers because they sodded off soon after they popped out.

Wibbs · 12-07-2019 3:06pm

markodaly wrote: »

What's the saying?

"Knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing."

If one boils down life to mere atoms and chemical reactions in the brain, it says more about that person's own nihilistic outlook than anyone else.

Again, as I said, people sure get insecure about this topic.

Meh, I'm not particularly nihilistic and I can hold two ideas in my head at once. I mean if I stub my toe it bloody hurts no matter how much I may think that it's just a cascade of chemicals going through my brain. So when I am in love I feel it very deeply and it doesn't exactly concern me that most of the chemicals involved are also to be found in chocolate.

For me I've never been particularly paternal, at all actually. I'd make for at best a lacklustre dad in general. I'm grand as the fun uncle who shows up for a while, but otherwise nope. I would have the same kinda drive to "reproduce myself" but if I ever did so knowing myself as I do, that for me would be selfish. There are enough meh parents out there, I don't need to add to their number. There are also fantastic mums and dads out there, some among my friends and more power to them.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 3:06pm

markodaly wrote: »

You begin to realise is that it? Is this me for the next 50 years until I **** myself in a old folks home and die?...
I suppose one becomes ready to move on from the self-indulgent lifestyle and start something else, something harder but ultimately much much more rewarding than a night on the beer, or a line of coke.

Not everyone thinks that way and I find it strange that some people think this way. Truth is 80 years is not long enough on this planet to experience all the great things this world has to offer. There's an endless amount of places to travel to, people to meet and things to share with a partner. There's loads and loads of other hobbies to try, there an endless amount of books to read and things to learn, documentarys/films/tv shows to watch, games to play, songs to listen to. Raising a kid is just ONE of the many many interesting things you can do with your life, if your worried about running out of things to do with your time then your not putting enough thought into all the other things you could do with your free time. Time is the most precious thing in the world and having kids is by far and away the biggest time sink that exists. Fair play to you if you want kids but for some people not having kids might be the smartest decision they ever make.

How common is it for people to never find an other half or have kids?

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