How common is it for people to never find an other half or have kids?

Potential-Monke · 18-07-2019 12:36pm

Research from Lancet Child & Adolescent Health Journal has stated that you're still a teen into your mid-20's, 24 to be exact. That's going to skew a lot of 'teen pregnancy' facts if so. Anyway, going by that research, people are settling down, getting married and having kids while still not 'mature'. Seems crazy. Back in the day, our parents got married and had kids young because there was nothing else to do and condoms were illegal/immoral. Now, we know better.

ginandtonicsky · 18-07-2019 2:19pm

LOL at all these men itching to settle down in their early 20s. Most men at that age can’t commit to texting you back, let alone settling down and having kids with you. The ones in their 30s can be even worse IME, either rebounding hard or assuming because you’re a 30+ woman that you’ve got Marriage and Babies disease that you’re going to infect them with.

We don’t live in a world where the majority are settling down in their early 20s anymore and it’s now a case that people are seeing that it’s not a foregone conclusion at all anymore. The reasons for that are irrelevant as what it ultimately amounts to is a very different dating culture where men are less likely to settle in the way they did in the past and women are then going to have to deal with all of these “left it too late” comments if they hit a certain age and haven’t met the right person.

[Deleted User] · 18-07-2019 2:31pm

There are men who want to and do settle down in their twenties. I know of a few. There are also women who choose not too. Biology unfortunately isn't on the woman's side so she doesn't have the same luxury of taking time and being uncertain and maybe deciding "sure when I'm 40 I'll figure it out". That's just how it is. Some people for whatever the reason don't have a child within the optimum window. It's not fair to place the blame for this at anyone else's door.
We all must take ownership for the choices we make.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 18-07-2019 2:36pm

It's not necessarily anyone's "fault" or a matter of blame though. Relationships fail, life fcuks plans up, people are deceived, people change their minds. Objecting to the language and tone of this "women are leaving it too late" is fair enough I think, and not necessarily a case of saying "it's all the men's fault".

People can have made all the major choices in their life based on the plan to have children and it can still all fall through. It's not a case of lousy man bastards or silly women bitches, it can just be a case of sh1t happens.

Gimme A Pound · 18-07-2019 2:44pm

Persepoly wrote: »

Lainey not everything in life needs to be a woman vs man issue.

Bit passive aggressive. Others are saying the same as her, why just single out Lainey? (As an aside, the way some spoke to her on the thread about the train the other day was disgusting).

But anyway she and others are dead right. As I said recently, I saw a meme about the stage women settle down now, and it's a photo of a really old lady in her 80s or 90s. Eh... so the men these women are settling down with are young virile studs is it?

Whenever the matter of starting a family comes up, it's always always "women today think they can have it all, feminism, career, Sex & The City, "the wall", cat ladies" etc - there's virtually none of that aimed at men.

[Deleted User] · 18-07-2019 2:45pm

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

It's not necessarily anyone's "fault" or a matter of blame though. Relationships fail, life fcuks plans up, people are deceived, people change their minds. Objecting to the language and tone of this "women are leaving it too late" is fair enough I think, and not necessarily a case of saying "it's all the men's fault".

People can have made all the major choices in their life based on the plan to have children and it can still all fall through. It's not a case of lousy man bastards or silly women bitches, it can just be a case of sh1t happens.

Oh absolutely. There is no blame necessary. I remember once a girl I was friendly with was going through a bad break up. Her heart was broke. She had three children already from a previous relationship. Anyways she said to me "bla bla took away my chance of having another child". I thought to myself that no he didn't. Of course the poor girl was in bits but hopefully she came to realise that it didn't work out between them nd that's all there is to it.

nthclare · 18-07-2019 2:47pm

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

It's not necessarily anyone's "fault" or a matter of blame though. Relationships fail, life fcuks plans up, people are deceived, people change their minds. Objecting to the language and tone of this "women are leaving it too late" is fair enough I think, and not necessarily a case of saying "it's all the men's fault".

People can have made all the major choices in their life based on the plan to have children and it can still all fall through. It's not a case of lousy man bastards or silly women bitches, it can just be a case of sh1t happens.

Yes sh1t happens...

What your post is saying, be practical and accept the inevitable.

But unfortunately some people have regrets, and when it's too late they feel they've missed out on something and depending on their emotional strength it can be a hard time looking back.

You're lucky to be able to say sh1t happens and get on with it, but some misfortunes may need therapy or lot's of reflection on going forward....

It's not all black and white.

Potential-Monke · 18-07-2019 3:41pm

Persepoly wrote: »

"bla bla took away my chance of having another child"

Is 3 not enough without a father figure there?! I can understand a man settling down with a women who has kids from another man, what i can't understand is men settling down with women who have children from multiple men. Ah, bit of a trend there people!! A son of my mothers friend died recently, 50, sad. But he had 6 kids from 4 women, none of which were at his funeral. I just can't understand that...

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 3:53pm

Persepoly wrote: »

Lainey not everything in life needs to be a woman vs man issue.

Who asked you?

This is definitely a very gender-based issue. Women being chastised for 'leaving it too late' while the men who refuse to commit are rarely commented on. Over and over again. Just look at the posts in this thread, men telling women they should be less picky or less career orientated or settle down at 22 instead of addressing the most common reason that women over 30 are childless - they have not met a man willing to commit and start a family. Rather than men being chastised for living student lifestyles well into their thirties (most of the men I work with play video games, eat pizza for most meals, sleep around many of them even skateboard to work, for the love of God), it's women who constantly get the blame for falling birth rates and infertility.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 3:58pm

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Bit passive aggressive. Others are saying the same as her, why just single out Lainey? (As an aside, the way some spoke to her on the thread about the train the other day was disgusting).

But anyway she and others are dead right. As I said recently, I saw a meme about the stage women settle down now, and it's a photo of a really old lady in her 80s or 90s. Eh... so the men these women are settling down with are young virile studs is it?

Whenever the matter of starting a family comes up, it's always always "women today think they can have it all, feminism, career, Sex & The City, "the wall", cat ladies" etc - there's virtually none of that aimed at men.

Because some people on here are bullies who personally abuse anyone who dares to think differently or doesn't see things in black and white, basically. Same kind of people you encounter in real life who sit and gossip about people who aren't just like them and gang up on them and pick them apart to make themselves feel powerful. No big deal.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 3:59pm

Redsky121 wrote: »

Men are always commented on for not committing as if there is something wrong with them ans they need to "grow up" or "man up". There is nothing wrong with not committing.

Sure, but there is most definitely something wrong with not being honest and upfront about it. Dating a woman in her thirties who wants kids when you know you don't want any is vile. You're literally robbing her of the chance to ever have a family just so you can have a relationship/sex.

I know people of both genders who just don't want kids, and are very open about it. They're not the people I'm talking about.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:01pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Research from Lancet Child & Adolescent Health Journal has stated that you're still a teen into your mid-20's, 24 to be exact. That's going to skew a lot of 'teen pregnancy' facts if so. Anyway, going by that research, people are settling down, getting married and having kids while still not 'mature'. Seems crazy. Back in the day, our parents got married and had kids young because there was nothing else to do and condoms were illegal/immoral. Now, we know better.

This is really interesting. I always found it weird that people are considered 'adults' at an arbitrary age (18) when science has proven that the brain is still developing until age 25. No wonder so many relationships which start in college crash and burn when both parties reach 30ish and have become totally different people.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:07pm

Persepoly wrote: »

Oh absolutely. There is no blame necessary. I remember once a girl I was friendly with was going through a bad break up. Her heart was broke. She had three children already from a previous relationship. Anyways she said to me "bla bla took away my chance of having another child". I thought to myself that no he didn't. Of course the poor girl was in bits but hopefully she came to realise that it didn't work out between them nd that's all there is to it.

But sometimes it IS someone's fault. I know plenty of women who were strung along by someone who just wanted sex and company 'for now' while pretending they wanted something totally different. Happened to me, and I'm as cynical and untrusting as they come. Still happened. A lot of men will misrepresent themselves to get what they want from women and if you don't think it happens, you're very naive, IMO. This isn't relationships 'not working out', it's planned deception.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 18-07-2019 4:11pm

Lainey I understand you've been let down and treated badly and you're clearly an intelligent person with many good qualities but a blind person can see the anger and bitterness towards men in your posts. You're not here long and you've dragged a lot of threads round to the moral, intellectual, etc failures of men. It does come across as very unpleasant and obsessive.

Holding an entire gender responsible for one's romantic disappointments and misadventures is no more a good look on a woman than it is a man.

[Deleted User] · 18-07-2019 4:15pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Who asked you?

This is definitely a very gender-based issue. Women being chastised for 'leaving it too late' while the men who refuse to commit are rarely commented on. Over and over again. Just look at the posts in this thread, men telling women they should be less picky or less career orientated or settle down at 22 instead of addressing the most common reason that women over 30 are childless - they have not met a man willing to commit and start a family. Rather than men being chastised for living student lifestyles well into their thirties (most of the men I work with play video games, eat pizza for most meals, sleep around many of them even skateboard to work, for the love of God), it's women who constantly get the blame for falling birth rates and infertility.

I gave my honest opinion. Not every single issue needs to be a gendered one. In saying that I can of course understand how a person's experience in the world will impact their opinions.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:16pm

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

Lainey I understand you've been let down and treated badly and you're clearly an intelligent person with many good qualities but a blind person can see the anger and bitterness towards men in your posts. You're not here long and you've dragged a lot of threads round to the moral, intellectual, etc failures of men. It does come across as very unpleasant and obsessive.

Holding an entire gender responsible for one's romantic disappointments and misadventures is no more a good look on a woman than it is a man.

Except I'm not doing that and you're making a strawman. I'm saying that on this particular topic, yes, men ARE largely to blame, certainly as much as women are. All this 'women leave it too late because they think they're Carrie in SATC' stuff is absolute sexist guff.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:23pm

Redsky121 wrote: »

I don't think any reasonable person would disagree that it's horrific to waste a woman's time like that.

Yet plenty of the people who do it refuse to understand how bad it is and make excuses for themselves so they feel less guilty.

Unfortunately it's one of those things where there really is no compromise. If you're a man and you 100% definitely don't want to settle down and have kids, then being anything other than totally upfront and honest about that fact makes you a c*nt, honestly. I don't think most men realise how truly small a woman's time to have children is, especially these days when women need to get a career together to support themselves. Most women are looking at a window of about 29-35, at best. Stringing along women in that age group is selfish and cruel.

If you're a childfree man, than either

- stay single
- date a woman who is older
- date a woman who already has kids and doesn't want more
- date a woman of any age who is childfree

It shouldn't be that hard, yet it seems a lot of men want to date who they want to date - attractive, fit women in their age bracket or a bit younger, and will misrepresent themselves if necessary if that means being able to date who they want to.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 18-07-2019 4:34pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Except I'm not doing that and you're making a strawman. I'm saying that on this particular topic, yes, men ARE largely to blame, certainly as much as women are.

On this particular topic, every single topic you posted on, extensively, in PI/RI, and a good 60 or 70% of your posts on AH. No, I'm not stalking your posts, we seem to be drawn to the same topics and within about a week of you joining up it had become a very readily apparent theme. However, you're right, it's not really the point of this thread and I don't mean to personally attack you so I'll drop it.

All this 'women leave it too late because they think they're Carrie in SATC' stuff is absolute sexist guff.

Absolutely agreed.

Blaizes · 18-07-2019 4:35pm

nthclare wrote: »

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

It's not necessarily anyone's "fault" or a matter of blame though. Relationships fail, life fcuks plans up, people are deceived, people change their minds. Objecting to the language and tone of this "women are leaving it too late" is fair enough I think, and not necessarily a case of saying "it's all the men's fault".

People can have made all the major choices in their life based on the plan to have children and it can still all fall through. It's not a case of lousy man bastards or silly women bitches, it can just be a case of sh1t happens.

Yes sh1t happens...

What your post is saying, be practical and accept the inevitable.

But unfortunately some people have regrets, and when it's too late they feel they've missed out on something and depending on their emotional strength it can be a hard time looking back.

You're lucky to be able to say sh1t happens and get on with it, but some misfortunes may need therapy or lot's of reflection on going forward....

It's not all black and white.

That’s because kids grow up reading fairy tales, girl meets prince ‘ they live happily ever after.’ But now hopefully people are waking up, realizing that *hit does happen and it’s not always happy ever afters.Probably does take a bit of time to realize this though. We’re not great at talking about our feelings in Ireland which also doesn’t help. Also think we are a bit pessimistic and depressed and maybe just expect too much. The weather probably doesn’t help either. Rambling off topic now I know.

nthclare · 18-07-2019 4:36pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yet plenty of the people who do it refuse to understand how bad it is and make excuses for themselves so they feel less guilty.

Unfortunately it's one of those things where there really is no compromise. If you're a man and you 100% definitely don't want to settle down and have kids, then being anything other than totally upfront and honest about that fact makes you a c*nt, honestly. I don't think most men realise how truly small a woman's time to have children is, especially these days when women need to get a career together to support themselves. Most women are looking at a window of about 29-35, at best. Stringing along women in that age group is selfish and cruel.

If you're a childfree man, than either

- stay single
- date a woman who is older
- date a woman who already has kids and doesn't want more
- date a woman of any age who is childfree

It shouldn't be that hard, yet it seems a lot of men want to date who they want to date - attractive, fit women in their age bracket or a bit younger, and will misrepresent themselves if necessary if that means being able to date who they want to.

Sometimes if you're upfront and honest about just looking for anything but a serious relationship and not a potential lifetime partner can still Equate you as a "see you next Tuesday"

Where's the balance.

Although I think women prefer a guy who's honest and sincere rather than some knob running with the hare and the hound's....

[Deleted User] · 18-07-2019 4:38pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Because some people on here are bullies who personally abuse anyone who dares to think differently or doesn't see things in black and white, basically. Same kind of people you encounter in real life who sit and gossip about people who aren't just like them and gang up on them and pick them apart to make themselves feel powerful. No big deal.

Lainey, I can assure you that I know a thing or two about being different and sticking your head above the parapet. I also know that when my opinions are called in to question or when in the past I've raised eyebrows I've known that doesn't equate to bullying.

My relationship experiences have been painful. I've had my heart trampled on and my head filled with bullshìt. I've also met a lot of really good men who left me hurt and confused just because that is often the nature of breakups.

The reason for my initial post to you was because of everything Electro posted in hers. No gender is without their carryon, indeed no person is without their dark side. Don't let your hurt colour your view and create division among women and men.

Autecher · 18-07-2019 4:43pm

Blaizes wrote: »

That’s because kids grow up reading fairy tales, girl meets prince ‘ they live happily ever after.’ But now hopefully people are waking up, realizing that *hit does happen and it’s not always happy ever afters.Probably does take a bit of time to realize this though. We’re not great at talking about our feelings in Ireland which also doesn’t help. Also think we are a bit pessimistic and depressed and maybe just expect too much. The weather probably doesn’t help either. Rambling off topic now I know.

To be honest Blaizes, I'll take someone blaming the weather over blaming men anyday! :P

kunst nugget · 18-07-2019 4:47pm

I didn't expressly enter the relationship I'm in now (Over twenty years together, over fifteen of that married) thinking I was going to marry her and have children - it was a pretty organic experience in terms of both being happy to take the next step and being open to the experience. If I'd said at the beginning 'You know, I don't know if I'm ready to have children or get married yet' that might have been the end of the relationship - Who knows? I'm not sure, we were young enough - but I would have ended up missing out on everything brilliant in my life. Life changes, attitudes change - something you thought you weren't ready for seems like something worth trying or on the flipside something that seemed so positive at the beginning can start to turn to sh!t and make you go cold on an idea. Life can throw a lot of curveballs at you and you just have to dust yourself down and keep on keeping on or else you'll drown in negativity.

But just remember, it's always the man's fault...

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:47pm

Talia Late Crosswalk wrote: »

On this particular topic, every single topic you posted on, extensively, in PI/RI, and a good 60 or 70% of your posts on AH. No, I'm not stalking your posts, we seem to be drawn to the same topics and within about a week of you joining up it had become a very readily apparent theme. However, you're right, it's not really the point of this thread and I don't mean to personally attack you so I'll drop it.

That's called confirmation bias. Apart from this one, my recent contributions have been about a man being deported from the US, a young girl being scalded by tea, women smoking while pregnant, train suicides, welfare, whether arts degrees are worth it and co-living spaces. Nothing remotely connected to gender issues or relationships. You simply think it's most of what I post about because you notice when I do so. But yes, it's off topic.

Autecher · 18-07-2019 4:47pm

I'm in that odd position now of being 36, single and not wanting kids. I love playing with kids, I adore my nieces but I also don''t want one of my own that I have to pay attention to 24/7. I am very lonely but I would never pretend to want kids just to be with someone, I really don't think that happens much. I've never heard of it with anyone before.
My best hope personally is I meet a woman who doesn't want kids or I meet one who already has one/some and doesn't want anymore.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:52pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

I didn't expressly enter the relationship I'm in now (Over twenty years together, over fifteen of that married) thinking I was going to marry her and have children - it was a pretty organic experience in terms of both being happy to take the next step and being open to the experience. If I'd said at the beginning 'You know, I don't know if I'm ready to have children or get married yet' that might have been the end of the relationship - Who knows? I'm not sure, we were young enough - but I would have ended up missing out on everything brilliant in my life. Life changes, attitudes change - something you thought you weren't ready for seems like something worth trying or on the flipside something that seemed so positive at the beginning can start to turn to sh!t and make you go cold on an idea. Life can throw a lot of curveballs at you and you just have to dust yourself down and keep on keeping on or else you'll drown in negativity.

But just remember, it's always the man's fault...

Wow, what an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude if I ever saw one.

Of course it's easy to have this attitude if everything worked out for you grand. You're essentially trying to lecture people about a problem you've never had.

kunst nugget · 18-07-2019 4:53pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Wow, what an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude if I ever saw one.

Of course it's easy to have this attitude if everything worked out for you grand. You're essentially trying to lecture people about a problem you've never had.

You are a real cup of sunshine. I could just drink you right up!!!

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:53pm

Autecher wrote: »

I'm in that odd position now of being 36, single and not wanting kids. I love playing with kids, I adore my nieces but I also don''t want one of my own that I have to pay attention to 24/7. I am very lonely but I would never pretend to want kids just to be with someone, I really don't think that happens much. I've never heard of it with anyone before.
My best hope personally is I meet a woman who doesn't want kids or I meet one who already has one/some and doesn't want anymore.

I don't think it's that odd. I know plenty of men and women who don't ever want kids. I have quite a few friends your age who have zero interest in starting a family but who would like to settle down/get married and have someone in their lives. Some of them have found apps like OK Cupid useful in that regard.

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 4:55pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

You are a real cup of sunshine. I could just drink you right up!!!

It's true, though, isn't it?

A man who is happily married with kids and who everything worked out for telling other people what they should do. I'm not saying you're wrong. Everything you wrote makes perfect sense. But it's very easy to have that attitude when you're one of the ones who are 'winning'. Perhaps your outlook would be very different if things hadn't gone your way as much as they did.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 18-07-2019 5:00pm

Autecher wrote: »

I'm in that odd position now of being 36, single and not wanting kids. I love playing with kids, I adore my nieces but I also don''t want one of my own that I have to pay attention to 24/7. I am very lonely but I would never pretend to want kids just to be with someone, I really don't think that happens much. I've never heard of it with anyone before.
My best hope personally is I meet a woman who doesn't want kids or I meet one who already has one/some and doesn't want anymore.

Probably the upside of your situation is at your age most people who are dating are going to know and communicate what they want on that front, there presumably wouldn't be many people and particularly many women with "oh sure we'll see how it goes" attitude or who'll pretend to not want kids, the timeline is too tight. Being open to dating women with kids is a big advantage too. I'm in my early 30s but if I were to end up single again the prospect of finding someone, especially a man, who was certain (like I am) that they didn't want kids would be daunting, you're someone's unicorn don't worry!

How common is it for people to never find an other half or have kids?

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