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Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

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Comments

  • #62
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    the_syco wrote: »
    tom1ie wrote: »
    Also to make people use the p+r’s I would place tolls on the cc side of the p+r’s but also encourage tax incentives for parking and pt travel passes if p+r’s were used.


    Also, the majority of people who cycle using the Dubblin Bicycles don't seem to know the rules of the road.
    Love the phonetic spelling!

    I guess that would put the majority of Dublin Bike users in the same category as the majority of motorists who break speed limits, red lights and use their phones while driving.

    Though in broad terms, the safety record of the Dublin Bike scheme is excellent - one death iirc in ten years.


  • #63
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Patww79 wrote: »
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Right so, but no point moaning then when congestion charging and widespread car bans making driving very time consuming and expensive for you.

    as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.

    Once you're forcing people like cattle onto buses and banning driving then you're a good step along the way to the place being ****ed anyway. Do you pick up your daily nutrition supplement tablet on the way to the bus or will it be available on board?
    Do people have such empty lives that they think that driving is fun?


  • #64
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Patww79 wrote: »
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Right so, but no point moaning then when congestion charging and widespread car bans making driving very time consuming and expensive for you.

    as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.

    Once you're forcing people like cattle onto buses and banning driving then you're a good step along the way to the place being ****ed anyway. Do you pick up your daily nutrition supplement tablet on the way to the bus or will it be available on board?
    Do people have such empty lives that they think that driving is fun?


  • #65
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,379 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Train station in sallins is full each day around 7:30. It’s going to be another year before more spaces available. People are driving from everywhere as train from newbridge costs literally double the price and only a few minutes down the road. Make it cheaper from there would help easy the congestion


  • #66
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Do people have such empty lives that they think that driving is fun?

    Not at all.
    The argument has been done to death.
    You can quite rightly point out all the benefits of cycling, but people don't care. It's a hassle. It's more difficult than driving. Until there's an easier solution then people won't change, and no amount of studies and preaching will change that.
    People are well aware of the benefits of cycling, but most still choose to drive. People are well aware of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle but most still choose to eat whatever they want.

    People are people, and will nearly always choose the path of least resistance.


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  • #67
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Not at all.
    The argument has been done to death.
    You can quite rightly point out all the benefits of cycling, but people don't care. It's a hassle. It's more difficult than driving. Until there's an easier solution then people won't change, and no amount of studies and preaching will change that.
    People are well aware of the benefits of cycling, but most still choose to drive. People are well aware of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle but most still choose to eat whatever they want.

    People are people, and will nearly always choose the path of least resistance.

    That's the thing. We need to make driving the path of most resistance.

    Take a commute from Navan to town as an example. Build a p&r at Clonee with a bus that will guarantee you being on oconnoll street within 20 minutes. Who would drive all the way in when they have that option? Build it and they will come


  • #68
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    P_1 wrote: »
    Build a p&r at Clonee with a bus that will guarantee you being on oconnoll street within 20 minutes.
    What's wrong with the M3 Parkway? Too small?


  • #69
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Right so, but no point moaning then when congestion charging and widespread car bans making driving very time consuming and expensive for you.

    as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.

    And Ill be the last one driving my range rover over scortched earth to the last place with a litre of water costing 2 childrens skulls and a 10 grams of gold


  • #70
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    the_syco wrote: »
    What's wrong with the M3 Parkway? Too small?

    A fair point. However m3 parkway is hamstrung by a lack of rolling stock. IE seem uninterested in buying more. The amount of level crossings around Clonsillla make increasing services on that route problematic though


  • #71
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And Ill be the last one driving my range rover over scortched earth to the last place with a litre of water costing 2 childrens skulls and a 10 grams of gold

    You mean you won't have a massive set of speakers on the back along with some lad playing rousing guitar riffs to keep you moving?

    Wheres your ambition lad?


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  • #72
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    P_1 wrote: »
    You mean you won't have a massive set of speakers on the back along with some lad playing rousing guitar riffs to keep you moving?

    Wheres your ambition lad?

    ofcourse, that was always the plan. Thought it didnt have to be mentioned.


  • #73
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    We can't be forever held back by people working in some inaccessible part of the city due to where they live.

    If we enforced the use of public transport, people will make choices on the back of this. Should I get a job in Terenure if I live in Laois? Should I buy a smaller house closer to my workplace, rather than buying a 5 bed in the country? Would I pressure my politicians to build a metro & more LUAS lines, rather than giving out about losing part of my garden? Would I like to see more highrise apartments in the city, closer to my workplace?

    It would be difficult in the beginning, but changes would happen. We have a great opportunity considering we are close to full employment - people have choices.


  • #74
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Right so, but no point moaning then when congestion charging and widespread car bans making driving very time consuming and expensive for you.

    as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.

    If they do that I'm just gonna stop working. 2.5 hours on buses each way, was hard enough to do it for a month. Not gonna do it again because someone thinks it's how I've got to commute and be punished financially for daring to be the square peg.


  • #75
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    hmmm wrote: »
    We can't be forever held back by people working in some inaccessible part of the city due to where they live.

    If we enforced the use of public transport, people will make choices on the back of this. Should I get a job in Terenure if I live in Laois? Should I buy a smaller house closer to my workplace, rather than buying a 5 bed in the country? Would I pressure my politicians to build a metro & more LUAS lines, rather than giving out about losing part of my garden? Would I like to see more highrise apartments in the city, closer to my workplace?

    It would be difficult in the beginning, but changes would happen. We have a great opportunity considering we are close to full employment - people have choices.

    I think congestion zones or these P&R city limits things would only encourage businesses to move just outside of the city. You'd be hard pressed to find many big company directors willing to forgoe the commute in a plush barge, or their 5 bed manor, creating these 'city limits' transport hubs may even end up sending traffic flows backwards, with effective commuter links, city dwellers could easily travel out to their offices at these hubs. Eventually you'd just drive up property prices for commercial and residential wherever these are and you just end up with more sprawl and people commuting from further towns knowing that they now only have to go as far as rathcoole instead of drive the next 45 mins into the city.


  • #76
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I think congestion zones or these P&R city limits things would only encourage businesses to move just outside of the city. You'd be hard pressed to find many big company directors willing to forgoe the commute in a plush barge, or their 5 bed manor, creating these 'city limits' transport hubs may even end up sending traffic flows backwards, with effective commuter links, city dwellers could easily travel out to their offices at these hubs. Eventually you'd just drive up property prices for commercial and residential wherever these are and you just end up with more sprawl and people commuting from further towns knowing that they now only have to go as far as rathcoole instead of drive the next 45 mins into the city.

    A company who's directors took such a retrograde and selfish decision may find themselves short of staff and customers in short order


  • #77
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    P_1 wrote: »
    A company who's directors took such a retrograde and selfish decision may find themselves short of staff and customers in short order

    Wouldnt be wise in a retail shop but sure it happens all the time in an office based business. if anything it would help in a lot of cases. I know I wont shop anywhere in dublin that I can't park within 100 meters of, similarly I preffer to buy things in industrial estates / retail parks where theres loads of free parking.

    There are also a hell of a lot of people who would gladly swap getting the bus to the city centre for driving a much shorter distance from their commuter town homes to work in a suburb.


  • #78
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Wouldnt be wise in a retail shop but sure it happens all the time in an office based business. if anything it would help in a lot of cases. I know I wont shop anywhere in dublin that I can't park within 100 meters of, similarly I preffer to buy things in industrial estates / retail parks where theres loads of free parking.

    There are also a hell of a lot of people who would gladly swap getting the bus to the city centre for driving a much shorter distance from their commuter town homes to work in a suburb.

    I wouldn't be so sure. Plenty of companies have done that and seen their workforce who were happy living in town and not having to deal with the expense of owning and running a car jump ship as soon as the move was announced


  • #79
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    salmocab wrote: »
    P&R onto a bus even one with great corridors is not appealing to a lot of people. The metro one will be successful but the chances are it won’t affect the M50. It will take the few users who come in from the M1 and go to the sandyford/leopards town area they will be delighted with a single reliable timewise journey.

    I think if people live and worked via that corridor then a P+r would be a welcome alternative vs sitting in gridlock.
    For example, if I lived in kilcock and had to commute to the cc or kilmainham id jump at the chance of using a bus that had a dedicated qbc+ bus priority at any traffic lights. Also what’s to say you couldn’t run every second bus from the p+r to park west for example? It’d depend on what sort of commuting map we have.

    Also if the p+r could be situated at hazlehatch train station with direct access to the m4 this would be ideal. I know your talking about building a major junction and road but the distance from the r449 junction and the m4 is only 4.165km to hazlehatch train station. There is plenty of land to the north of the station to construct a p+r. This would allow train access to park west and bus access to cc kilmainham etc. every second bus could run to grange castle buisness Park, but again that’s dependent on finding out who is going where on the n4.


  • #80
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    P_1 wrote: »
    A fair point. However m3 parkway is hamstrung by a lack of rolling stock. IE seem uninterested in buying more. The amount of level crossings around Clonsillla make increasing services on that route problematic though
    You talk of a P+R in Clonee; if the M3 Parkway isn't working, why would someone try to reinvent the wheel.
    hmmm wrote: »
    If we enforced the use of public transport, people will make choices on the back of this. Should I get a job in Terenure if I live in Laois? Should I buy a smaller house closer to my workplace, rather than buying a 5 bed in the country?
    HAHAHAHA. What a fcuking joke. People don't buy a 3 bed house in the middle of Timbuktu because they want to; it's all they can afford. Oh, sure, they could buy a small two bed apartment, which is great. Unless they want a family. Then it's too small. Irish apartments are tiny!
    hmmm wrote: »
    Would I like to see more highrise apartments in the city, closer to my workplace?
    The cap on on how high buildings could be built has being cut, albeit VERY recently.
    P_1 wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure. Plenty of companies have done that and seen their workforce who were happy living in town and not having to deal with the expense of owning and running a car jump ship as soon as the move was announced
    Companies generally move due to ever increasing rent. Can you name some sample companies that moved?

    =-=

    Regarding the tolls in the M50; will the system be ignoring any trucks, vans, etc, that do deliveries? Or will the cost just be added onto the consumer?


  • #81
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    P_1 wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure. Plenty of companies have done that and seen their workforce who were happy living in town and not having to deal with the expense of owning and running a car jump ship as soon as the move was announced

    Maybe in Dublin, Cork and Galway but there's countless towns that have their Town centre gutted by retail parks.


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  • #82
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    the_syco wrote: »
    You talk of a P+R in Clonee; if the M3 Parkway isn't working, why would someone try to reinvent the wheel.


    HAHAHAHA. What a fcuking joke. People don't buy a 3 bed house in the middle of Timbuktu because they want to; it's all they can afford. Oh, sure, they could buy a small two bed apartment, which is great. Unless they want a family. Then it's too small. Irish apartments are tiny!


    The cap on on how high buildings could be built has being cut, albeit VERY recently.


    Companies generally move due to ever increasing rent. Can you name some sample companies that moved?

    =-=

    Regarding the tolls in the M50; will the system be ignoring any trucks, vans, etc, that do deliveries? Or will the cost just be added onto the consumer?

    M3 Parkway isn't working because of capacity issues on the rail line into town. IE have a fixed amount of rolling stock and have no plans to increase that. Furthermore there are issues adding more services to that line with the number of level crossings around Clonsilla

    I've left jobs because of relocations to industrial estates around the M50 as have many of my former colleagues. I'm obviously not going to say who I worked for in the past.

    Delivery vehicles should obviously be exempt from increased tolls, as should residents in the case of a toll on the quays.


  • #83
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    hmmm wrote: »
    We can't be forever held back by people working in some inaccessible part of the city due to where they live.

    If we enforced the use of public transport, people will make choices on the back of this. Should I get a job in Terenure if I live in Laois? Should I buy a smaller house closer to my workplace, rather than buying a 5 bed in the country? Would I pressure my politicians to build a metro & more LUAS lines, rather than giving out about losing part of my garden? Would I like to see more highrise apartments in the city, closer to my workplace?

    It would be difficult in the beginning, but changes would happen. We have a great opportunity considering we are close to full employment - people have choices.

    Again putting the cart before the horse.

    No sense forcing people on to public transport when it's sh#te or non existent.

    It's a case of build it and they will come. Make public transport better before making driving worse.


  • #84
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    P_1 wrote: »
    M3 Parkway isn't working because of capacity issues on the rail line into town. IE have a fixed amount of rolling stock and have no plans to increase that. Furthermore there are issues adding more services to that line with the number of level crossings around Clonsilla

    I've left jobs because of relocations to industrial estates around the M50 as have many of my former colleagues. I'm obviously not going to say who I worked for in the past.

    Delivery vehicles should obviously be exempt from increased tolls, as should residents in the case of a toll on the quays.

    So (if im reading this right) you live in the city and cycle, so this entire thread is basically redundant to you, its all well and good to say park and ride is great etc... when you won't have to deal with any of it.

    the M3 parkway also is nowhere near capacity , few cars park there and the trains arent going full, it doesnt work because people just arent into it.


  • #85
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    the_syco wrote: »
    Where will you be placing these P+R facilities that house 100's of cars and are manned by security but don't charge?

    Because most people who drive in are doing so due to the lack of local transport into Dublin. Once near Dublin, there is a lack of safe P+R facilities.

    Also, the majority of people who cycle using the Dubblin Bicycles don't seem to know the rules of the road.


    Nuclear weapons; great at lowering the general population.


    The same capitalism that employs you?


    Agreed, but the train stations need larger parking facilities, and ones that don't charge too much.


    So a higher car tax because there is no public transport going to where he works? What a load of bollox!


    Sounds like people inside Dublin Area. Anything outside said area is costly. So rather than paying for parking in Dublin, people would need to pay for parking outside of Dublin, as well as the price to get public transport into Dublin, followed by multiple other transfers to get to their destination.

    Hazlehatch on n4, rathcoole on n7 although I realize Sallins would be better as it has a rail line but I don’t think you’ll get direct motorway access to a p+r that has direct access to th train station. M1 p+r will be at lissenhall at the metro terminus, needs to be built bigger though. Not sure for the n3 and n2 yet. N11 is bray. Luas green line will be extended out to there hopefully it will be a full metro.

    So a higher car tax because there is no public transport going to where he works? What a load of bollox!

    Yes. The higher car tax will pay for the public transport and p+r’s along with the revenue generated from the tolls. People have to be encouraged out of their cars.


  • #86
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So (if im reading this right) you live in the city and cycle, so this entire thread is basically redundant to you, its all well and good to say park and ride is great etc... when you won't have to deal with any of it.

    the M3 parkway also is nowhere near capacity , few cars park there and the trains arent going full, it doesnt work because people just arent into it.

    I live in the city and deal with the abysmal traffic on a daily basis so who in the name of Jeremy Corbyn's saggy right bollock are you to tell anyone that something is redundant to them


  • #87
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    tom1ie wrote: »

    Yes. The higher car tax will pay for the public transport and p+r’s along with the revenue generated from the tolls. People have to be encouraged out of their cars.

    This is the mentality you're dealing with.

    Pay higher tax so you can drive to a car park miles from work, wait for a shuttle into town, then a walk or cycle to your job.

    Where's the encouragement there??


  • #88
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    P_1 wrote: »
    I live in the city and deal with the abysmal traffic on a daily basis so who in the name of Jeremy Corbyn's saggy right bollock are you to tell anyone that something is redundant to them

    So those of us that have no desire to or cant afford to live in the city should be taxed into oblivion or forced onto cattle cart busses and trains so that you have to deal with less traffic on your already tiny commute ?

    I bet if you had to come from kildare to the city every day you'd sure change your tune about what way people should be getting to work,


  • #89
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    There are also a hell of a lot of people who would gladly swap getting the bus to the city centre for driving a much shorter distance from their commuter town homes to work in a suburb.
    The chances of getting a critical mass of staff for whom any particular suburb is an improvement is slim. Even short distances round the city, for example, Blanch to Swords, are challenging in rush hour.


  • #90
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The chances of getting a critical mass of staff for whom any particular suburb is an improvement is slim. Even short distances round the city, for example, Blanch to Swords, are challenging in rush hour.

    do you live in the city ?


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  • #91
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So those of us that have no desire to or cant afford to live in the city should be taxed into oblivion or forced onto cattle cart busses and trains so that you have to deal with less traffic on your already tiny commute ?

    I bet if you had to come from kildare to the city every day you'd sure change your tune about what way people should be getting to work,

    So those of us who live in the city have to put up with our streets being clogged by selfish country hicks who don't comprehend that space in the city roads is at a premium?


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