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Three children found dead mod note in post 1

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    #152
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    pjohnson wrote: »
    A nurse that may (per Gynoids link above) have given children a lethal overdose?

    Why wouldn't parents want their kids re-checked if they had dealings with that nurse?

    You'd imagine she was on sick leave from crumlin children's hospital if she had recent mental issues as spoken of by her neighbours.


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    #153
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pjohnson wrote: »
    A nurse that may (per Gynoids link above) have given children a lethal overdose?

    Why wouldn't parents want their kids re-checked if they had dealings with that nurse?

    Rechecked for what pj?


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    #154
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,151 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Is there no such thing as bad mental health pj? It’s all a load of nonsense isn’t it? People should just pull themselves together and stop looking for notice?

    This is irrelevant. Yes there is bad mental health. However the vast majority of mental health sufferers avoid committing multiple murders (which is still unconfirmed in this case anyway).

    The need some have for tying murders to mental health only increases the stigma on people with actual mental health issues as they may then start thinking they are now a danger to loved ones based of the actions of a murderer (like Hawe).


    splinter65 wrote: »
    For people like pjohnson there’s no such thing as mental health issues. Depression stress anxiety etc it’s all a load of nonsense. It’s just people looking for attention.

    Lol you dolt. No its just murder does not equal mental health issues.

    The complusion to marry the two is ridiculously harmful to people with mental health issues.


    Dont try putting words in my mouth when you are hilariously wrong.


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    #155
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pjohnson wrote: »
    This is irrelevant. Yes there is bad mental health. However the vast majority of mental health sufferers avoid committing multiple murders (which is still unconfirmed in this case anyway).

    The need some have for tying murders to mental health only increases the stigma on people with actual mental health issues as they may then start thinking they are now a danger to loved ones based of the actions of a murderer (like Hawe).





    Lol you dolt. No its just murder does not equal mental health issues.

    The complusion to marry the two is ridiculously harmful to people with mental health issues.

    So you say that the vast majority of people suffering from bad mental health don’t commit murder, (true) but you don’t accept that a tiny amount of mental health sufferers do end up taking drastic measures? What do you base that theory on? It’s being widely reported that this woman was sufffering mental health issues. Are you saying that her condition and the death of her children is just a coincidence?


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    #156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Are you saying that her condition and the death of her children is just a coincidence?


    are you saying that nobody in this thread is going be permitted to do anything but say "the poor dear" about her because "mental health"?

    if her mental health was that bad then the children should have been elsewhere. if she isnt legally or morally culpable for the deaths, then, what, "shrug"?


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    #157
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    pjohnson wrote: »
    A nurse that may (per Gynoids link above) have given children a lethal overdose?

    Why wouldn't parents want their kids re-checked if they had dealings with that nurse?

    Ah jaysus, talk about clutching at straws for things to fkn type about.


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    #158
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    are you saying that nobody in this thread is going be permitted to do anything but say "the poor dear" about her because "mental health"?

    if her mental health was that bad then the children should have been elsewhere. if she isnt legally or morally culpable for the deaths, then, what, "shrug"?

    Who was responsible for seeing that a mentally ill woman was not left in charge of children?


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    #159
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote:
    if her mental health was that bad then the children should have been elsewhere. if she isnt legally or morally culpable for the deaths, then, what, "shrug"?


    We d have to have a functioning mental health system for actions such as this


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    #160
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,151 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    splinter65 wrote: »
    So you say that the vast majority of people suffering from bad mental health don’t commit murder, (true) but you don’t accept that a tiny amount of mental health sufferers do end up taking drastic measures? What do you base that theory on? It’s being widely reported that this woman was sufffering mental health issues. Are you saying that her condition and the death of her children is just a coincidence?

    Is there any legitamate source confirming any mental health issues?

    People spent weeks/months excusing Hawe over his "mental health problems" or Chada who killed his two sons.


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/not-everyone-struggling-with-mental-health-is-going-to-kill-their-children-37859671.html

    Its an awful link to be trying to establish that murder and mental health are the same, and it always happens at this time. With the truth coming later again like the Hawe case.


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    #161
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,234 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    This is an absolutely awful would story. I saw the papers yesterday when I was in a shop getting my 10 year old son a little treat after his coder dojo class. I had just come from a room full of young kids this age, all of them so unique and creative and full of life.

    I cant imagine the pain that father must be in today

    I really do not think this is the place for the usual boards.ie bickering about men being treated worse than women. If this is all you can think of saying then you have issues of your own to be dealing with


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    #162
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Absolutely, as this will completely solve these type of issues and prevent them from happening again


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    #163
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Akrasia wrote: »
    This is an absolutely awful would story. I saw the papers yesterday when I was in a shop getting my 10 year old son a little treat after his coder dojo class. I had just come from a room full of young kids this age, all of them so unique and creative and full of life.

    I cant imagine the pain that father must be in today or what must have gone wrong to cause the mother to do this.

    I really do not think this is the place for the usual boards.ie bickering about men being treated worse than women. If this is all you can think of saying then you have issues of your own to be dealing with

    In all these types of of horrible inexplicable crimes, whether mass shooting or family deaths like this we think mental health as a possible cause because the crimes are just so hard to fathom or rationalise.
    I trust the courts system and health professionals to reach a fair and reasoned conclusion, that is all we can do.
    On some sub conscious level, for me anyway, I find it harder to believe a mother would be capable of such an act without suffering severe mental health.
    I know that is unfair and that bias should not enter the heads of the investigators I'm just giving my own honest response.
    God help the family and that poor father.


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    #164
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I've said it before, the old style institution's were not all bad, my uncle in Canada is married to a lady who's mother spent most of her life inside, my aunt in law and all her siblings were reared with relatives as their mother was simply too unstable


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    #165
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Akrasia wrote: »
    This is an absolutely awful would story. I saw the papers yesterday when I was in a shop getting my 10 year old son a little treat after his coder dojo class. I had just come from a room full of young kids this age, all of them so unique and creative and full of life.

    I cant imagine the pain that father must be in today or what must have gone wrong to cause the mother to do this.

    I really do not think this is the place for the usual boards.ie bickering about men being treated worse than women. If this is all you can think of saying then you have issues of your own to be dealing with

    In fairness, certain ideologoues really made hay while the sun shone in the aftermath of the Hawe case. It’s very convenient to stamp out any discussion about this case.


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    #166
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There should be an honest conversation around this sort of thing and not a kneejerk reaction of mental health / controlling explanations that are rolled out like religious dogma evey time something like this happens.

    Mental health is a blanket statement that says nothing. Pretty much everyone has a mental health issue of one sort or another.

    The same with suicide - which I feel is closely related to this kind of incident - there's never any real conversation other than something to do with selfishness or being unable to express emotions or some other such nonsense - which does nothing to help people identify cases like this and stop them happening in the future.

    I know one person when taking about at a particualrly low point in her life after a terrible thing happened to her - an "Act of God", not something someone did to her.

    She said she was seriously thinking of killing herself and her 5 year old daughter because it wasn't fair to her daughter to go through any more mental pain. I won't go into details but she had the whole thing planned out. Thankfully she didn't go through with it and now her life is really good, but "mental health issues" would not be an adequate explanation in her case. I feel this kind of thinking could explain many of the incidents like this.


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    #167
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote:
    She said she was seriously thinking of killing herself and her 5 year old daughter because it wasn't fair to her daughter to go through any more mental pain. I won't go into details but she had the whole thing planned out. Thankfully she didn't go through with it and now her life is really good, but "mental health issues" would not be an adequate explanation in her case. I feel this kind of thinking could explain many of the incidents like this.


    So she was behaving perfectly rationale during this period?


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    #168
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    In fairness, certain ideologoues really made hay while the sun shone in the aftermath of the Hawe case. It’s very convenient to stamp out any discussion about this case.

    Assuming it's true, Hawe appears to have been a control freak bully of epic proportions, he probably had a psychotic mental illness too

    Even the worst drug lord criminals don't commit acts like that against their own family


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    #169
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Mental health issues and mental illness are two separate things. The former become the latter if left untreated.

    Developing a mental illness is a whole different level.


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    #170
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Who was responsible for seeing that a mentally ill woman was not left in charge of children?

    Doctors, unfortunately it's extremely difficult to section someone involuntarily in 2020


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    #171
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Doctors, unfortunately it's extremely difficult to section someone involuntarily in 2020

    Thank god.


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    #172
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Mental health issues and mental illness are two separate things. The former become the latter if left untreated.

    Developing a mental illness is a whole different level.

    Depression can evolve into psychotic behaviour, can it not?

    I know full well the vast majority of people who suffer with depression do not cause harm to anyone but depression can become dangerous?


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    #173
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    jackboy wrote: »
    Thank god.

    No, it's a fcuking disaster


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    #174
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    No, it's a fcuking disaster

    I don’t think so. Doctors shouldn’t have power to lock people up. Even if they had none of the child killers in recent years would have been locked up.


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    #175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    id suggest a step or series of steps between involuntary committal and children being left as nothing more than functions of the treatment of a mentally-ill adult is possible, and necessary.

    every year- cases like this, every year- "mental health" *shrug*


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    #176
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,293 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Wmahcm - do not post in this thread again


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    #177
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Thank you maxx. You are spot on.

    They closed the big hospitals to save money. I only know the scene in the Uk but I imagine it is the same here?

    They were invaluable safe places for people either at crisis times or just inadequate for life's demands. A place of safety, a haven and a respite for families.

    The buzz term was " care in the community" ; only the community was not and is not equipped to "care" . It tied the hands of eg GPs.

    And I agree totally that this lady was/is seriously mentally ill. The fact of the sheer horror of it must not detract from that awareness.
    I know families with members whose mental health is a wreck and who cannot get help.
    it is sitting on a time bomb for them.




    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    She was obviously very unwell, mental illness can cause psychotic behaviour, the mind is more fragile and dangerous than we think

    I've said it before, the old style institution's were not all bad, my uncle in Canada is married to a lady who's mother spent most of her life inside, my aunt in law and all her siblings were reared with relatives as their mother was simply too unstable


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    #178
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    jackboy wrote: »
    Thank god.

    In this case? There is a line between too easy sectioning and not being able to make a family safe.

    It may be that no help had been sought for this lady/this family because there is so little help to be had?


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    #179
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    No, it's a fcuking disaster

    Agree. The fact that help is not easily available means that illness becomes more extreme . Drs hands are tied as there are so few mental health facilities to be accessed


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    #180
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Graces7 wrote: »
    In this case? There is a line between too easy sectioning and not being able to make a family safe.

    It may be that no help had been sought for this lady/this family because there is so little help to be had?

    Maybe. We know next to nothing about the woman in this case. Looking at recent child killings though the killers were sometimes high functioning pillars of the community. Mental health services probably would not have prevented those cases.


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    #181
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know one person when taking about at a particualrly low point in her life after a terrible thing happened to her - an "Act of God", not something someone did to her.

    She said she was seriously thinking of killing herself and her 5 year old daughter because it wasn't fair to her daughter to go through any more mental pain. I won't go into details but she had the whole thing planned out. Thankfully she didn't go through with it and now her life is really good, but "mental health issues" would not be an adequate explanation in her case. I feel this kind of thinking could explain many of the incidents like this.

    you don't think this lady had mental health issues??


This discussion has been closed.
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