Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

errlloyd · 06-09-2020 12:24pm

I guess we have to use the N4 road as our line. First rugby club you played for North or South of the line?

bilston · 06-09-2020 12:30pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The Italy game is 6 or 7 weeks away and Andy Farrell surely has a lot to consider selection wise.

Front row - Healy Kelleher Furlong/Porter
None of the hookers have really stood out but I'd like to see Kelleher get the nod with an eye to the future.

2nd row - Toner Ryan
Henderson would appear to be out until November. Ryan is due back and goes back into the team

Back row - Doris Stander Conan
It's Italy, so experiment a little. Get three ball carriers on the pitch who all offer something different

Half back - Marmion Byrne
Cooney has gone off the boil, Murray and McGrath have been poor, Maybe JGP?

Centre - Aki, Ringrose

Back 3 - Larmour, Earls and Conway

Bench
Kilcoyne*, Herring, Furlong/Porter**, Baird, Connors/VDF, Murray, Sexton***, Henshaw

* Ed Byrne might get a shot if Kilcoyne is out
** John Ryan next in line
*** off the back of European rounds Sexton might get a week off so Madigan might find himself back in green

Furlong Injury is a bit of an unknown and Leavy probably needs a few months at Leinster before stepping up to International rugby.

I can't see Sexton sitting out the Italy game given its a Six Nations match and we can still win the tournament.

ionadnapokot · 09-09-2020 1:29pm

Dorce is been a big boy today! Lots of direct finger pointing!

Munster Coaching ticket
IRFU
Lack of leadership from Munster on pitch

"The spreading of former Leinster schoolboys to Limerick, Belfast and Galway has vastly improved Ireland’s depth in every position and it will help the national side in the coming era when rocks like Bundee Aki and CJ Stander make careers in France and Japan, but what does it do for Munster in the long term?

Then he undermine's all of his points by citing Alby at Ulster over Casey at Munster.

"Right now though, McFarland is streets ahead of Van Graan. At half-time in Murrayfield they were in a similar state of inadequacy. McFarland separated himself with a big decision that took control of Ulster’s destiny.

The coach put the entire campaign on his back by pulling off Ulster’s best player of these past two years. John Cooney has been out of sorts since the restart but he is their goal kicker, their try scorer from anywhere and so much more besides.

The player who replaced him will not be lost on the Munster fan. Murray was regularly relieved of last-quarter responsibility when Alby Mathewson was his shadow scrumhalf. Ulster profited from keeping a 34-year-old All Black in the Irish system.

McFarland’s entire bench deserves credit for fighting back from 19-7 down with 20 minutes remaining, albeit against an Edinburgh side that choked, but it was Mathewson who changed up the tempo.

The Ulster fan has grown accustomed to beating off all-comers at home before coming up short on a tricky road trip. That the halfbacks McFarland signed this summer produced the goods to set up a Pro14 final against Leinster in Dublin this Saturday night shows us a coach who knew precisely where his team needed strengthening.

That Madigan kicked five points under the most strenuous levels of pressure, in direct contrast to Hanrahan being miles off target when under less heat, explains why McFarland was able to hugely gamble by removing Cooney.

The Ulster fan sees a man who can admit his tactics are not working. The Ulster fan sees a coach who was able to stare into the eyes of his best player and tell him ‘You are coming out of the game’.

Van Graan did not have an All Black veteran at his disposal to replace the incumbent Lions scrumhalf but in Craig Casey he undoubtedly has a coming force. Even the young scrumhalf was not tasked with changing up their approach. They box-kicked to an unacceptable conclusion."

He's definitely right about one thing though.
"Right now though, McFarland is streets ahead of Van Graan"

Lucas44 · 09-09-2020 3:43pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The Italy game is 6 or 7 weeks away and Andy Farrell surely has a lot to consider selection wise.

Front row - Healy Kelleher Furlong/Porter
None of the hookers have really stood out but I'd like to see Kelleher get the nod with an eye to the future.

2nd row - Toner Ryan
Henderson would appear to be out until November. Ryan is due back and goes back into the team

Back row - Doris Stander Conan
It's Italy, so experiment a little. Get three ball carriers on the pitch who all offer something different

Half back - Marmion Byrne
Cooney has gone off the boil, Murray and McGrath have been poor, Maybe JGP?

Centre - Aki, Ringrose

Back 3 - Larmour, Earls and Conway

Bench
Kilcoyne*, Herring, Furlong/Porter**, Baird, Connors/VDF, Murray, Sexton***, Henshaw

* Ed Byrne might get a shot if Kilcoyne is out
** John Ryan next in line
*** off the back of European rounds Sexton might get a week off so Madigan might find himself back in green

Furlong Injury is a bit of an unknown and Leavy probably needs a few months at Leinster before stepping up to International rugby.

No balance in that back row, Conan leinster 2/3rd best 8 can’t see him pushing anyone for Ireland starting will bully the Italians and small pro14 teams but go missing against wales & England ..

Team I would like to see play is

Healy
Herring
Porter
Beirne
Ryan
Dorris
Connors
Cj
Cooney
Sexton
Earls
Aki
Ringrose
Conway
Stockdale

Also will be intrigued to see where dan Leavy plays when he’s back, with the changes at the breakdown can see him playing a lot at 6 for leinster like curry for England

Clegg · 09-09-2020 4:08pm

The more I see of Beirne, the more I think that he isn't a test quality second row. Just doesn't have the power for it. He could definitely do a job in the back row in a similar mould to POM, but with a better carrying game. Unfortunately, with Munsters injury problems he's probably stuck in the second row for now.

I'd sooner give one of the younger second rows a chance. Baird being the obvious standout.

rayd3 · 09-09-2020 4:24pm

Clegg wrote: »

Unfortunately, with Munsters injury problems he's probably stuck in the second row for now.

Kleyn is starting back training so if he partners with Wycherley (or Ahern) in the row we could see Beirne at 6 for some games.

Clegg · 09-09-2020 4:28pm

rayd3 wrote: »

Kleyn is starting back training so if he partners with Wycherley (or Ahern) in the row we could see Beirne at 6 for some games.

That's good news at least. Had it in my head that Kleyn was out for a few months.

Paul Smeenus · 09-09-2020 4:30pm

Clegg wrote: »

The more I see of Beirne, the more I think that he isn't a test quality second row. Just doesn't have the power for it. He could definitely do a job in the back row in a similar mould to POM, but with a better carrying game. Unfortunately, with Munsters injury problems he's probably stuck in the second row for now.

I'd sooner give one of the younger second rows a chance. Baird being the obvious standout.

I agreed, but would be happy to see Dillane back again.

aloooof · 09-09-2020 4:34pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

"The spreading of former Leinster schoolboys to Limerick, Belfast and Galway has vastly improved Ireland’s depth in every position and it will help the national side in the coming era when rocks like Bundee Aki and CJ Stander make careers in France and Japan

I'm not sure how to read this. Is Darce suggesting that players like Bundee or CJ are more likely to head to France and Japan than Ireland in future? Or does he mean that Bundee and CJ themselves are likely to go for end-of-career pay-days in Japan or France?

I really dislike where he's going if it's the latter, but I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, given it's a bit ambiguous.

molloyjh · 09-09-2020 4:38pm

aloooof wrote: »

I'm not sure how to read this. Is Darce suggesting that players like Bundee or CJ are more likely to head to France and Japan than Ireland in future? Or does he mean that Bundee and CJ themselves are likely to go for end-of-career pay-days in Japan or France?

I really dislike where he's going if it's the latter, but I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, given it's a bit ambiguous.

I think what he's saying is that some guys will inevitably leave for a payday and that those that have less roots here are more likely to go. We know some former players strongly considered it. POC even went and did it. I guess he's clumsily trying to say that others will do the same, particularly those with less ties to the country.

aloooof · 09-09-2020 5:32pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I think what he's saying is that some guys will inevitably leave for a payday and that those that have less roots here are more likely to go. We know some former players strongly considered it. POC even went and did it. I guess he's clumsily trying to say that others will do the same, particularly those with less ties to the country.

It's pretty clumsy at best imo, and leaving himself open to criticism by singling out Bundee and CJ, imo. Nobody begrudged POC going for a final payday, or Donncha Ryan and Zebo, say. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to the likes of CJ.

Interested Observer · 09-09-2020 5:33pm

aloooof wrote: »

It's pretty clumsy at best imo, and leaving himself open to criticism by singling out Bundee and CJ, imo. Nobody begrudged POC going for a final payday, or Donncha Ryan and Zebo, say. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to the likes of CJ.

Where is he begrudging anything?

sydthebeat · 09-09-2020 5:40pm

aloooof wrote: »

It's pretty clumsy at best imo, and leaving himself open to criticism by singling out Bundee and CJ, imo. Nobody begrudged POC going for a final payday, or Donncha Ryan and Zebo, say. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to the likes of CJ.

i dont think hes speaking directly about bundee and CJ because he states "make careers in japan and france".

by the time it comes round to either CJ or Bundee being available for a french pension, it will be past time that they will be making their careers there.
CJ will be 30, Bundee will be 32.

i think hes referring to that abrasive players brought over here as projects.

molloyjh · 09-09-2020 5:49pm

aloooof wrote: »

It's pretty clumsy at best imo, and leaving himself open to criticism by singling out Bundee and CJ, imo. Nobody begrudged POC going for a final payday, or Donncha Ryan and Zebo, say. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply to the likes of CJ.

I dont think he's suggesting the same shouldnt apply at all. Just that when guys move on, having the talent spread around getting game time will help alleviate any damage their absence might cause. It was badly worded. He really shouldn't have named (just) those 2 as it adds an element of doubt as to what he really meant. I think...

aloooof · 09-09-2020 6:28pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Where is he begrudging anything?

If he meant Bundee and CJ specifically (which, to be fair, I'm not sure he did) it's pretty easy to infer it as a pejorative. Otherwise, why would he have singled out just those 2?

I think it's more along the lines of what Syd is saying tho.

b.gud · 10-09-2020 8:03am

aloooof wrote: »

I'm not sure how to read this. Is Darce suggesting that players like Bundee or CJ are more likely to head to France and Japan than Ireland in future? Or does he mean that Bundee and CJ themselves are likely to go for end-of-career pay-days in Japan or France?

I really dislike where he's going if it's the latter, but I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, given it's a bit ambiguous.

My interpretation of it was that he was saying with the change to residency rules coming up, hence the bit about the coming era, it is unlikely we will be able to lure project players like Bundee and CJ who are able to contribute hugely to the national tram, "rocks". The other part of the paragraph that makes me think this is he mentions them making careers rather than just taking a payday.

I agree with what someone else said its not that well written but I think he was actually praising the contribution to the Irish team.

With that said if Bundee or CJ do go for a big payday at the end of their career there will be plenty out there ready to have a go at them

Neil3030 · 10-09-2020 1:13pm

Pretty unambiguous to me that he's talking about future players in the Aki and Stander mold.

Clegg · 10-09-2020 2:11pm

8 Nations tournament confirmed.

Our first game is against Wales at the Aviva on the 13th of November.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1304043754542825473?s=19

Tommybojangles · 10-09-2020 2:24pm

First glance it's a big advantage to have Georgia last if we manage to eek our way into a strong position before that. Hard to see past an england France final though.

Can't wait to see Fiji play in some meaningful games againt the 6 Nations teams! Presumeably they'll be aiming for 2 wins

aloooof · 10-09-2020 2:25pm

How are the Finals Weekend games decided? I haven't been paying attention to this...

The Lost Sheep · 10-09-2020 2:28pm

aloooof wrote: »

How are the Finals Weekend games decided? I haven't been paying attention to this...

1st v 1st, 2nd v 2nd, 3rd v 3rd, 4th v 4th from the group games

10-09-2020 2:29pm

Has being at home advantage made any difference without fans? We get a home final regardless

Squidgy Black · 10-09-2020 2:29pm

aloooof wrote: »

How are the Finals Weekend games decided? I haven't been paying attention to this...

Final pool rankings, they face the team from the opposite pool in the same ranking.

bilston · 10-09-2020 2:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Has being at home advantage made any difference without fans? We get a home final regardless

It will have some impact, but I assume most of us have played rugby to varying levels and I don't know about the rest of you I always found playing at home in front of 5 people a lot easier than playing away in front of 5 people.

salmocab · 10-09-2020 3:06pm

bilston wrote: »

It will have some impact, but I assume most of us have played rugby to varying levels and I don't know about the rest of you I always found playing at home in front of 5 people a lot easier than playing away in front of 5 people.

5? That’s fancy rugby, our subs wouldn’t watch our matches.

AbusesToilets · 10-09-2020 3:20pm

Seems a very lopsided tournament. We play Wales, England and Georgia. France play Fiji, Scotland and Italy. That's not even remotely equivalent

The Lost Sheep · 10-09-2020 3:22pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Seems a very lopsided tournament. We play Wales, England and Georgia. France play Fiji, Scotland and Italy. That's not even remotely equivalent

We get better quality games. Is that not a good thing?

sydthebeat · 10-09-2020 3:35pm

can i clarify.... this isn't instead of a 6 nations 2021 is it?? Thats still going ahead next february?

and also, we still have to play italy on 24th October and france on the 31st..... so thats 6 games in 7 weeks..... going to be like mini world cup for up *gulp*

The Lost Sheep · 10-09-2020 3:42pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

can i clarify.... this isn't instead of a 6 nations 2021 is it?? Thats still going ahead next february?

and also, we still have to play italy on 24th October and france on the 31st..... so thats 6 games in 7 weeks..... going to be like mini world cup for up *gulp*

Its replacing the November Internationals as Southern Hemisphere sides not coming north.
Good to have a mini world cup. Maybe might help us ahead of 2023....

OldRio · 10-09-2020 4:05pm

All about cash. Nothing else.

Its a 'Who wants to pay the most for the TV rights tournament.'

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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