€500 Fine At Clonsilla Train Station ?!

kravmaga · 28-02-2008 4:52pm

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0228/breaking4.htm

kravmaga · 28-02-2008 5:09pm

OTK wrote: »

What's the world coming to when an Irish man can't walk across mainline rail tracks without being bothered by security guards talking about the 'law'?

The worst part is that they were foreigners. How can any foreigner have authority over an Irish man? It makes my blood boil.

What on Earth could be dangerous about walking on railway tracks? It's a bit mad alright.

If you have no valid input to make on this topic dont bother posting childish immature comments as you have above.

paulm17781 · 28-02-2008 5:19pm

blueeyedboy wrote: »

If you have no valid input to make on this topic dont bother posting childish immature comments as you have above.

I think he's being sarcastic. I seriously hope he is.

Cookie_Monster · 28-02-2008 5:24pm

blueeyedboy wrote: »

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0228/breaking4.htm

That reads like it is being reported as a motoring accident rather than a train accident?!

paulm17781 · 28-02-2008 6:54pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That reads like it is being reported as a motoring accident rather than a train accident?!

None the less, it shows how a train can't stop in time etc. Even if the gates weren't closed. Surely the driver would have seen this and still couldn't stop.

Bogger77 · 28-02-2008 7:02pm

Just looking at the OS map for there, it's a slight S bend curve on the line at that crossing, driver hadn't much more than a few hundred meters to react.

RIP the car driver, and sympathies to his family and the train driver.

Would i be right in thinking that that driver would cover that line pretty much only, as it's a shuttle service from Manualla to Ballina?

HydeRoad · 28-02-2008 7:11pm

TO return to Clonsilla for just a moment, I approached the level crossing in my car northwards one day, as the gates were swinging shut.

A lady driver suddenly appeared over the hump back bridge in the opposite direction at great speed, far too fast to anticipate anything that might be the other side of the bridge. As the gates were already swinging closed, and she couldn't stop, she accelerated, and zig-zagged through the gates. The rear wing of her car missed the gate by millimetres. My heart skipped a beat!

On the more general topic of this thread, it started off as a very interesting topic, worth contributing to. I was away from the forum for a day, and suddenly I see six pages of trollery and personal insults. What a shame that a very serious topic should be reduced to that. Fun and games in the appropriate place. Don't feed the trolls. Your considered contributions will stand on their own.

Skyhater · 28-02-2008 7:27pm

Zoney wrote: »

I can't believe people are arguing for the right to cross busy train lines. Obviously not only is better enforcement needed (€500 is a pathetic fine too for the severity of the offence), but also basic education. Bad enough if kids don't know better, but grown adults?

HydeRoad wrote: »

On the more general topic of this thread, it started off as a very interesting topic, worth contributing to. I was away from the forum for a day, and suddenly I see six pages of trollery and personal insults. What a shame that a very serious topic should be reduced to that. Fun and games in the appropriate place. Don't feed the trolls. Your considered contributions will stand on their own.

Couldn't agree more with both of you!!!

And on my behalf, I apologise for throwing any personal insult. I just couldn't believe what i was reading and the total disregard for any common sense rules.....

Cookie_Monster · 28-02-2008 9:01pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

None the less, it shows how a train can't stop in time etc. Even if the gates weren't closed. Surely the driver would have seen this and still couldn't stop.

Slightly OT but it just seems unusaul that it is immediatly considered a motoring accident and not a rail one. Is tyhis so as the car was at fault?

What exactly happened anyone, was the car driver basically racing to get over the tracks before the train passed or just completly oblivious while traveling at a normal speed?

monkeyfudge · 29-02-2008 12:35am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

And anyway how is a train going to "sneak" up on you without you seeing/hearing it, they're huge and loud!

The sound travels out to the left and right of the train though... not out the front. From the perspective of the tracks it's actually not that easy to hear an approaching train.

HydeRoad · 29-02-2008 12:49am

Stand on the apex of a bridge as a train approaches. Can you hear a distant train over general traffic noise? When you do finally hear the train, count the seconds till it storms past under the bridge...

A Dub in Glasgo · 29-02-2008 8:01am

It is obvious from this thread that there are some people who have no idea what they are talking about. I have 8 years experience (in a 14 year Railway career) of working/walking trackside and I can assure you that even the most experienced trackside worker will misjudge the approach of a train.

If a smart arsed commuter is so blase about crossing the tracks, they will be blase about crossing the tracks at other locations including junction areas. The trackside environment is full of tripping hazards as well and it is not intended for members of the public to go wandering. Bet you my mortgage that those of the smart arsed variety will be the first to cry into their keyboards when a mishap happens (trips & slips as well as a near miss with a train). All this to save the smart arsed commuter 60 seconds!

Cookie_Monster · 29-02-2008 11:02am

monkeyfudge wrote: »

The sound travels out to the left and right of the train though... not out the front. From the perspective of the tracks it's actually not that easy to hear an approaching train.

Eh? Have you ever stood on a platform?

KC61 · 29-02-2008 11:32am

That's true of locomotive hauled stock, which you will generally hear.

However, I'd have to say that my experiences of the new rolling stock, i.e. the new Intercity railcars that are being rolled out on the Sligo and Limerick routes at present and especially the Mark 4 rolling stock on the Dublin/Cork route (when in push/pull mode and being pushed from the rear) is that you could certainly stand on a station platform looking the other direction and not hear them coming until they are at the platform.

Nevyn · 29-02-2008 11:51am

There is also the fact that in the last two years two people have thrown themselves under a train on that line.

trellheim · 29-02-2008 12:46pm

Not entirely sure but I believe this legislation is still extant re level crossings

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1845/cukpga_18450020_en_3#pb4-l1g43

Cookie_Monster · 29-02-2008 1:10pm

KC61 wrote: »

That's true of locomotive hauled stock, which you will generally hear.

However, I'd have to say that my experiences of the new rolling stock, i.e. the new Intercity railcars that are being rolled out on the Sligo and Limerick routes at present and especially the Mark 4 rolling stock on the Dublin/Cork route (when in push/pull mode and being pushed from the rear) is that you could certainly stand on a station platform looking the other direction and not hear them coming until they are at the platform.

You can usually hear the rails / overhead wires (if there) humming from the vibrations of oncoming trains

KC61 · 29-02-2008 1:56pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

You can usually hear the rails / overhead wires (if there) humming from the vibrations of oncoming trains

That as maybe, but it is certainly nowhere near as obvious as in the past. I've been standing on a platform when a Mark 4 train came past (when I had my back to it) being pushed by the locomotive and I certainly did not hear it coming.

The point I am making is that the newer trains are far quieter and much less obvious than before, and if people are wandering across tracks there is a far greater chance of them not hearing the train approaching.

SteM · 29-02-2008 2:26pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

You can usually hear the rails / overhead wires (if there) humming from the vibrations of oncoming trains

I'd hazzard a guess that at least 2 of the 10 that the OP spoke about crossed with some sort or MP3 player blaring in their ears. There's no accounting for stupidity.

joolsveer · 29-02-2008 6:04pm

Just this evening I saw a guard at Clonsilla station standing near the level crossing looking for miscreants. I wonder will there be more prosecutions now?

Skyhater · 01-03-2008 12:28am

joolsveer wrote: »

Just this evening I saw a guard at Clonsilla station standing near the level crossing looking for miscreants. I wonder will there be more prosecutions now?

I saw the same.... except there were two security guards and one member of An Garda Siochana.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-03-2008 2:16am

KC61 wrote:

At the end of the day walking on railway tracks is dangerous, and with the new units being exceptionally quiet, it is even more lethal than it has ever been.

Don't forget that because of the momentum and lack of friction, a speeding train can freewheel for ages and if it's on continuous welded track there won't be any clickety clack either.

pljudge321 · 01-03-2008 2:01pm

I've worked as a summer student in IE and been out on the track and so have a bit of real first hand experience as opposed to some people who just seem to assume things.

Firstly trains are pretty damn quiet, especially the intercity ones, I've stood about 2 meters beside one as it goes barreling along the track at 80 mph and it wasn't much louder than a large lorry. There have been a couple of people in england who have been run over in as they walked along the track without even hearing or seeing the train, granted this was at night, but the scary thing is the driver didn't even find out till the next morning.

Also to the people saying that crossing the rails poses no hazard, what if the ballast shifts and your foot gets trapped under a sleeper or the rail, once again this has happened. What if the the points shift and trap your foot? What if you slip and knock yourself unconscious on the rail?

Its not really a risk worth taking for about two minutes journey time saved.

Also as an aside, if a train driver sees you and has to emergency brake apart from the huge costs mentioned earlier the train might have to be brought in and new wheels put on due to flat edges caused by the immense friction of stopping.
brought in and completely outfitted with new wheels becaus

Run_to_da_hills · 01-03-2008 2:26pm

[/IMG]

pljudge321 wrote: »

Also as an aside, if a train driver sees you and has to emergency brake apart from the huge costs mentioned earlier the train might have to be brought in and new wheels put on due to flat edges caused by the immense friction of stopping. brought in and completely outfitted with new wheels becaus

Railway wheels can have their flat spots quite easily skimmed without removing them from the train. In an emergency is done at the workshop at Inchicore overnight to have the train ready for work the following morning.. http://www.railwaywheelsrepair.com/links.htm

Calina · 01-03-2008 3:33pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Railway wheels can have their flat spots quite easily skimmed without removing them from the train. In an emergency is done at the workshop at Inchicore overnight to have the train ready for work the following morning.

I would not take that as carte blanche to walk on or along rail tracks anyway.

I must confess that I am totally astounded by some of the opinions I have seen voiced here. I mean, I am now pretty much immune to the seeming mentality in Ireland whereby you have to be protected from doing stupid things like speeding on the roads or skipping public transport fares...I really would have thought that walking on train tracks was self evidently something people would not do. That they do is a step beyond reality in my view.

Is it because of the compo culture here that even if you do something stupid there is a good chance that you'll be able to find some insurance company to claim against that people do less than wise things like crossing railway tracks against the advice and regulations of the rail company?

I'm of the opinion that jailing people for walking on rail tracks would be a suitable deterrent except the airwaves would fill up with people whinging to Joe Duffy about the disproportionality of the punishment when either a) the streets is too dangerous with all them drug dealers, Joe, yenawaramean or b) and those nasty people in Leinster House get scot free for all their sins and I get thrown in jail for crossing de feckin' railway.

Absent that as an option, a huge fine will have to do. If Irish Rail want to up it to two thousand euro I wouldn't stand in their way.

OP, I have no sympathy for your plight.

corktina · 01-03-2008 5:03pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

[/IMG]Railway wheels can have their flat spots quite easily skimmed without removing them from the train. In an emergency is done at the workshop at Inchicore overnight to have the train ready for work the following morning.. http://www.railwaywheelsrepair.com/links.htm

yes in the normal course of things, but I think a flat caused by a wheel locked at 90 mph might need a little more than a skim and new tyres might well be needed...

(yes Railway wheels DO inded have tyres before you snigger... :-)

Run_to_da_hills · 01-03-2008 5:12pm

corktina wrote: »

yes in the normal course of things, but I think a flat caused by a wheel locked at 90 mph might need a little more than a skim and new tyres might well be needed...
(yes Railway wheels DO inded have tyres before you snigger... :-)

I thought the Dart had ABS brakes

Capt'n Midnight · 01-03-2008 9:49pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I thought the Dart had ABS brakes

True, the steering is just as controlled when you are braking. And it's got run flat tyres

trellheim · 02-03-2008 6:50pm

perhaps an appropriate response from the RSA might be warranted. Like forcing IE to make it difficult for people to take the wrong route to cross the tracks.

Victor · 02-03-2008 6:59pm

trellheim wrote: »

perhaps an appropriate response from the RSA might be warranted. Like forcing IE to make it difficult for people to take the wrong route to cross the tracks.

Many level crossings have surfaces to discourage people from going the wong way. IÉ tend to use a series of triangular pieces of timber, RPA use an oddly shaped paving brick.

€500 Fine At Clonsilla Train Station ?!

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