Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

obezyana · 23-03-2014 4:53pm

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I reckon its a bit of both, players and the coach. As a neutral who isnt from Waterford I was scratching my head as to why yee got rid of Michael Ryan, I thought he was doing a good job for yee. If the manager had a system in place Waterford would have been way more competitive, Ya just have to look at Laois with the way Seamus Plunkett has a specific game plan every game and they are just an average group of hurlers yet they pushed the Munster Champions to the pin of their collars today

I agree Michael Ryan was more than capable of building a good team year in year but now I'm afraid player power has brought Waterford hurling back a few steps well more than a few steps judging by the last two games.

cul beag · 23-03-2014 5:00pm

Here we go again Scully's supporters lying in the long grass waiting to pounce. Will we ever change in this f**king county? Can we deal with the situation now and not what has gone on in the past! Christ if we want to go back far enough will we start blaming jj landers for bringing us to div 3 in the league!
Today was abysmal no other way to describe it. We lacked a game plan,looked like we threw in the towel,and did look leaderless on the line.
Why Moran isn't told to stop soloing in to dead ends is so frustrating. Time and time again he's at it. I just don't know where to start to be honest it was so poor.
Ray Barry with 4 pts from play was the one bright spark in another wise forgetful day.

Cornerstoner · 23-03-2014 5:08pm

I said a few weeks ago after the Galway and Dublin wins (both teams didnt turn up in my opinion) that we would know where we stand after the final 3 games against Clare and Kilkenny. Its clear where we stand now. We are not good enough for this division and I'd expect Dublin to put us down in the playoff, they will know what to expect this time. We have gone back since last year, lets make that clear. If I was Michael Ryan I'd feel vindicated at this time. As regard apparent 'tatics', how do you expect to win a game with ONE forward inside the oppositions 45? And then naming wing forwards under puc outs who are no where near capable of competing in the air. Absolute madness. Time to go back to basics, big physical men in the half forward line who are able to COMPETE for the ball not any of this other nonsense. The game of hurling is a simple one, win the ball and strike it, no matter where you play on the field, corner back or corner forward

Motivator · 23-03-2014 5:12pm

What was witnessed today was a pure embarrassment. No gameplan, no communication between players & management, no player seemed to know his job today. What was the point in bringing Prendergast on after 50 minutes? A gutless display & one wonders what the next step is.

The players wanted McGrath, they've for him now so it's time to stand up & be counted.

deisedoz · 23-03-2014 5:28pm

Too many negatives to analyse, an utter embarrassement, worse than last week. Our touch was poor, tactical plan non-existent (raining high ball on a two man full forward line), constantly running into contact (Moran particularly guilty) and giving the ball away with baffling handpassing, at least 4-5 points were gifted from this.

Unless we address the above pretty quickly we will be in 1b and out of the Championship by July. These players forced the change of manager and have placed themselves under a lot of pressure which they now have to respond to.

Cornerstoner · 23-03-2014 5:54pm

According to Tomas McCarthy players yet to emerge from dressing rooms, a full hour after game has finished

Motivator · 23-03-2014 5:56pm

Cornerstoner wrote: »

According to Tomas McCarthy players yet to emerge from dressing rooms, a full hour after game has finished

Probably waiting for McGrath to finish the sandwiches.

seananigans · 23-03-2014 6:01pm

Motivator wrote: »

Probably waiting for McGrath to finish the sandwiches.

There's no need for personal insults .for all his faults Derek is an honest genuine man and is trying his best . there's no need to go down that don't for someone giving his whole life in her to a voluntary role

Ropaire · 23-03-2014 6:03pm

cul beag wrote: »

Here we go again Scully's supporters lying in the long grass waiting to pounce. Will we ever change in this f**king county? Can we deal with the situation now and not what has gone on in the past! Christ if we want to go back far enough will we start blaming jj landers for bringing us to div 3 in the league!
Today was abysmal no other way to describe it. We lacked a game plan,looked like we threw in the towel,and did look leaderless on the line.
Why Moran isn't told to stop soloing in to dead ends is so frustrating. Time and time again he's at it. I just don't know where to start to be honest it was so poor.
Ray Barry with 4 pts from play was the one bright spark in another wise forgetful day.

I was never Skullys biggest fan but he did well i thought, so far I've seen very little to think management can come close to matching what we got last 2 years, no mind improve on it. We were a mess in the Clare game and worse today when the pressure was really on. Where do we go from here? Show patience and hope it comes good, which could see us back in div 3 the way we're going? We needed the performance and a bit of belief more than a win today and we got no sign of either. An awful lot needs to be done between now and the Cork game to get some respectability back, at least we already beat the Dubs so there should be no fear factor there

hurler on de ditch · 23-03-2014 6:06pm

seananigans wrote: »

There's no need for personal insults .for all his faults Derek is an honest genuine man and is trying his best . there's no need to go down that don't for someone giving his whole life in her to a voluntary role

get you on the sandwiches ,but if that is a man doing his best ,well his best is just not good enough ,useless ,the man has no balls for the role simple as

Motivator · 23-03-2014 6:07pm

seananigans wrote: »

There's no need for personal insults .for all his faults Derek is an honest genuine man and is trying his best . there's no need to go down that don't for someone giving his whole life in her to a voluntary role

It was just a joke no offence intended.

seananigans · 23-03-2014 6:10pm

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

get you on the sandwiches ,but if that is a man doing his best ,well his best is just not good enough ,useless ,the man has no balls for the role simple as

No problems questioning him as a manager but personal insults should be of the v board it's not sporting and it's not fair.

obezyana · 23-03-2014 6:18pm

Cornerstoner wrote: »

According to Tomas McCarthy players yet to emerge from dressing rooms, a full hour after game has finished

Id say its pointing fingers and blaming each other time. Absolutely shameful effort from everyone involved.

culbaire · 23-03-2014 6:23pm

obezyana wrote: »

Id say its pointing fingers and blaming each other time. Absolutely shameful effort from everyone involved.

Some players played well. Many did not.

TheScoringGoal · 23-03-2014 6:27pm

Shane Fives and Austin Gleeson from the starting 15 played well. I wouldn't say a bad word about any of the subs with Ray Barry obviously also showing he should have started.

ct98 · 23-03-2014 6:30pm

Very worried about Waterford this year. We need to be more positive, find some attacking/goal threat & pace. Also we need to win more ball in attack. Back to drawing board for mgt team.

I hope I'm wrong, but based on games to date, its difficult to see Waterford winning unless its a low scoring game.

Who do ye think can provide Waterford with the attacking/goal threat ?

culbaire · 23-03-2014 6:33pm

Motivator wrote: »

What was witnessed today was a pure embarrassment. No gameplan, no communication between players & management, no player seemed to know his job today. What was the point in bringing Prendergast on after 50 minutes? A gutless display & one wonders what the next step is.

The players wanted McGrath, they've for him now so it's time to stand up & be counted.

I agree with much of what you say. However some players played better than others and never gave up. What has John Mullane got to say for himself now? Remember his biting criticism last year!!
Outside expertise is required to turn this around. We need a specialised backs coach and a specialised forwards coach. We have to face facts. We haven't got them in Waterford. Are we going to bin the pride and admit it for the good of Waterford hurling? Derek McGrath needs to find these immediately. Otherwise we face a slaughter against Cork. There is an absent of sufficient expertise in Waterford. Its time to face up to it. Last year Michael Ryan recognised this.

avonmore · 23-03-2014 6:33pm

I just don't know where to start.

Apart from the lunacy that goes for our game plan, I have a feeling that the years of unsupervised idiocy in gyms is coming home to roost for a lot of our lads. Guys who have sacrificed their hurling for sheer bulk. What we have now is a plethora of robotic Winter hurlers.

We were cleaned out today because of that.

We are trying to replicate what Clare are doing but we don't have the guys with the intelligence, pace or hurling to do it.

You can build up all the bulk you want but at the end of the day intelligence, wrists and pace are everything in hurling.

I could only see three lads with that today, Jamie Barron, Aussie Gleeson and Ray Barry. I would also save Tadhg de Burca now, while we have a chance.

WE have several guys now who think they are playing a game akin to rugby, i.e looking to find contact at every opportunity and then looking to recycle to a team mate.

That's will get you a certain amount in the muck and the s**t that is Harty, Fitzgibbon and Winter hurling.

Unfortunately it will get you sweet FA once the ground starts to harden.

culbaire · 23-03-2014 6:40pm

avonmore wrote: »

I just don't know where to start.

Apart from the lunacy that goes for our game plan, I have a feeling that the years of unsupervised idiocy in gyms is coming home to roost for a lot of our lads. Guys who have sacrificed their hurling for sheer bulk. What we have now is a plethora of robotic Winter hurlers.

We were cleaned out today because of that.

We are trying to replicate what Clare are doing but we don't have the guys with the intelligence, pace or hurling to do it.

You can build up all the bulk you want but at the end of the day intelligence, wrists and pace are everything in hurling.

I could only see three lads with that today, Jamie Barron, Aussie Gleeson and Ray Barry. I would also save Tadhg de Burca now, while we have a chance.

WE have several guys now who think they are playing a game akin to rugby, i.e looking to find contact at every opportunity and then looking to recycle to a team mate.

That's will get you a certain amount in the muck and the s**t that is Harty, Fitzgibbon and Winter hurling.

Unfortunately it will get you sweet FA once the ground starts to harden.

You hit the nail on the head.

Deisegodeo · 23-03-2014 6:49pm

Absolutely desperate performance today, for the second weekend in a row. Waterford were simply a shambles with fellas who looked like they hadn't trained together and a gameplan that either didn't exist or nobody understood how to implement it.

Playing one very light player at full forward against 2/3 KK defenders and expecting something to come from this is perplexing. At times there was no Waterford forward within 40 yards of the KK goal. And yet our defence was opened up alarmingly once again. It seemed like KK had about 3/4 extra players out there.

It was embarrassing today. 2 of the worst performances i have ever seen from Waterford on successive weekends. The whole set up, players and backroom, need to take a hard look at what they have produced the last 2 weeks.

Really is hard to see us getting close to Dublin in the play off after this showing.

Motivator · 23-03-2014 7:02pm

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Absolutely desperate performance today, for the second weekend in a row. Waterford were simply a shambles with fellas who looked like they hadn't trained together and a gameplan that either didn't exist or nobody understood how to implement it.

Playing one very light player at full forward against 2/3 KK defenders and expecting something to come from this is perplexing. At times there was no Waterford forward within 40 yards of the KK goal. And yet our defence was opened up alarmingly once again. It seemed like KK had about 3/4 extra players out there.

It was embarrassing today. 2 of the worst performances i have ever seen from Waterford on successive weekends. The whole set up, players and backroom, need to take a hard look at what they have produced the last 2 weeks.

Really is hard to see us getting close to Dublin in the play off after this showing.

Derek McGrath has fooled everyone, his revolutionary thinking & "top class" backroom team have shown sweet F A so far. All the talk of the team wanting him, he was the man to take this exciting team forward etc. surely this can't be everything he has to offer? I heard an interview during the week where Dan Shanahan said they still hadn't a full panel to work with yet. Am I missing something? Who have they to come back?

After the battling performance against Kilkenny in July I really thought this team would push on this year but the battling qualities shown under Ryan aren't apparent at all so far this year.

Slobbery · 23-03-2014 7:14pm

I wouldn't be too concerned about bulk at this time of year, before you move on to plyometrics or explosive power you first have to build the muscle, the hypertrophy phase, than you can change the routine to maximise explosive power which the lads will have done come championship. Compound gym exercises will also increase flexibility. I couldn't imagine that they are doing these incorrectly or unsupervised.

To the match where to start. Enough depression so going to leave that to others.

Austin Glesson got his first start, hopefully the dawn of a great career in the blue and white. I am sure some great things to come.

Shane fives again played well hopefully his brother daragh is back soon and we can send Shane I sul into the forwards and have a bit more presence up there.

Ray Barry scored 4 great points, in the last two games it looks like Brian o Sullivan remembered where the posts are. Shan was injured he will be worth a few points to us too.

Some of the lads worked very hard.

We are light, hopefully summer hurling will suit us better.

Hopefully we have a full fit panel to select from come championship and we will be ok

avonmore · 23-03-2014 7:41pm

Slobbery wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned about bulk at this time of year, before you move on to plyometrics or explosive power you first have to build the muscle, the hypertrophy phase, than you can change the routine to maximise explosive power which the lads will have done come championship. Compound gym exercises will also increase flexibility. I couldn't imagine that they are doing these incorrectly or unsupervised.

The lads I was referring to have the damage already done by spending too many hours unsupervised in the gym, in their teens.

Hurling is not Gaelic Football, thank God. Physicality will only get you so far.

They have thrown out the baby with the bathwater by this.

Have a look at our backs and centre field today, we were literally cleaned for pace.

Along with that, compared to the Kilkenny lads, how many of those lads instinctively thought of using their hurleys before hand passing.

Therein lies the problem. They don't have the wrists to do it.

I repeat, Winter hurlers.

Cork very nearly won an All Ireland last year with a team built on sheer pace and quick hurling.

Their biggest guys, physically, in the forward line were Harnedy and Cronin. Lehane, Farrell and Horgan etc are hardly more than 11 or 12 stone a piece.

KevIRL · 23-03-2014 8:00pm

Vital we win that toss for home advantage in relegation play off. Dubs want to fix the game for second half of double header with footballers in Croker next weekend

Slobbery · 23-03-2014 8:04pm

Ya we do seem to be lacking pace alright, at the same time inter county hurlers aren't gym shy.
I don't actually buy that some of our lads are being held back because of gym work they did as teens... Of course other players there age from other counties were doing the same.

Conor Lehane added 5kilos of muscle last year, he didn't do that hitting ball off the wall. You mention Luke o Farrell, do you think he is the type of player we are missing from our team? Cork supporters see him as a huge frustration, he won't take on a man and is constantly striking moving backwards, he even was doing it for Middleton this year

I agree we may lack pace, but you can't blame that on the players themselves, Christ we can't have a go at them for everything

Deise_2012 · 23-03-2014 8:11pm

Motivator wrote: »

Derek McGrath has fooled everyone, his revolutionary thinking & "top class" backroom team have shown sweet F A so far. All the talk of the team wanting him, he was the man to take this exciting team forward etc. surely this can't be everything he has to offer? I heard an interview during the week where Dan Shanahan said they still hadn't a full panel to work with yet. Am I missing something? Who have they to come back?

After the battling performance against Kilkenny in July I really thought this team would push on this year but the battling qualities shown under Ryan aren't apparent at all so far this year.

Darragh Fives, Richie Foley, Liam Lawlor, Shane Walsh, Brian O'Halloran, Donie Breathnach, Steven Daniels, Jake Dillon, Martin O'Neill, maybe Stephen Bennett. Just to name a few!

PTH2009 · 23-03-2014 8:17pm

we could get a hammering next weekend against Dublin. They looked very good today and would of learnt from the game earlier in the month

Dublin will be hard to beat in Parnell Park/Croke Park (possibly could be in a netural venue if both sides agree)

A short summer beckons we cud well lose to teams like Wexford or Offaly

Deise_2012 · 23-03-2014 8:22pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

we could get a hammering next weekend against Dublin. They looked very good today and would of learnt from the game earlier in the month

Dublin will be hard to beat in Parnell Park/Croke Park (possibly could be in a netural venue if both sides agree)

A short summer beckons we cud well lose to teams like Wexford or Offaly

thanks

sid wallace · 23-03-2014 8:22pm

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Absolutely desperate performance today, for the second weekend in a row. Waterford were simply a shambles with fellas who looked like they hadn't trained together and a gameplan that either didn't exist or nobody understood how to implement it.

Playing one very light player at full forward against 2/3 KK defenders and expecting something to come from this is perplexing. At times there was no Waterford forward within 40 yards of the KK goal. And yet our defence was opened up alarmingly once again. It seemed like KK had about 3/4 extra players out there.

It was embarrassing today. 2 of the worst performances i have ever seen from Waterford on successive weekends. The whole set up, players and backroom, need to take a hard look at what they have produced the last 2 weeks.

Really is hard to see us getting close to Dublin in the play off after this showing.

I agree with this. I'd be all for playing a one man full forward line if it meant the back line didn't leak goals. But KK had loose men all over the forward line in the second half and it wasn't apparent where our loose men were or what their role was. In the same vein, even if you go with that plan how could you come to the conclusion that Brian O Sullivan should be the one full forward. He was brushed aside at every turn and the ball came back with interest, time and again. You could argue that he was given poor ball but this is KK we are playing you get what you get and you battle for it.

Finally I thought it odd that the management were back on the field well before the players at half time. What was that all about?

savannahkat · 23-03-2014 8:29pm

Every Waterford fan has a right to be angry with the display today and not so much with the players. It is obvious the Waterford management came to keep the score down with little intention of trying to win the game.We have come to expect hard battles from Waterford but it was obvious very early in this game that Waterford were never going to win it and not because they do not have the hurlers. It was because of the team plan and the team set up. They gave half the pitch to Kilkenny to do what they liked with. The Waterford management reacted to last weeks critisism of not protecting the backs by over doing it today. Clueless management in the extreme.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

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