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06-02-2019, 13:59   #16
emeldc
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Op if they are looking after the place and paying the rent I'd be slow to bring two more people in to the legal framework. If the original couple decide to move out it might not suit you to keep on the other two. I'm not sure if they would have any legal right to stay there but I'd be a lot quicker to change the locks on someone that I had no financial or written agreement with. Try and consider every scenario and how you might deal with it.
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06-02-2019, 14:16   #17
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I'm curious, if the tenants sublet for for than the market rate who is then breaking the RPZ.

In the the OP situation he has not vetted the two new tenants.
If the original two leave, he is left with tenants he didn't vet and who he doesn't have a deposit from.
The original two can claim their deposit not the 2nd couple.

Very messy.
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06-02-2019, 14:18   #18
GGTrek
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Op if they are looking after the place and paying the rent I'd be slow to bring two more people in to the legal framework. If the original couple decide to move out it might not suit you to keep on the other two. I'm not sure if they would have any legal right to stay there but I'd be a lot quicker to change the locks on someone that I had no financial or written agreement with. Try and consider every scenario and how you might deal with it.
After 6 months of the LL knowing there are occupiers without terminating tenancies they have the legal right to request to stay and be treated as a tenant and not a licensee of the main tenants (ain't the RTA such a wonderful piece of ...?)


I had twice the case of tenant illegally subletting. Once when I was a brand new and innocent landlord (ended up really badly with main tenant leaving and the other one causing a lot of problems and having to take to RTB to kick out). The second time I simply kicked out every single one of the smart-.... (they could afford but they wanted to save on my skin and were overcrowding the property). I do not provide fixed term tenancies of more than 3 months nowadays, so if tenants misbehave at the the 3 months they get termination notice without reason very quickly. Life is too short to deal with the antics of smart-...


Biggest error of the OP was to question the tenants if they could afford the rent. If the OP knew the tenants could not afford given their paychecks or bank statements, then he/she should not have let the property to this particular set of tenants. It is part of the reference checking process, if the numbers do not add up then no letting.


My suggestion if the OP's property is inside an RPZ (which leaves no flexibility to negotiate rent to cover additional wear&tear) is to terminate the tenancy for serious breach of lease and then look for tenants who can afford the rent. The current Irish tenancy law does not leave space for negotiations or to provide freebies to tenants (down the line it will seriously punish every LL doing good deeds).
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06-02-2019, 14:27   #19
Mrs OBumble
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OP what problem are you actually trying to fix? Why is three poeple better than four?

If you insist on only three tenants you mau go from having two couples who look after the house and pay the rent, to some other combination that don't and cause you a lot more trouble. Especially if you got three singles having frequent one night stands or even just a partner to stay for three night per week each, average occupancy could be higher than four.
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06-02-2019, 14:32   #20
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My view is that I dont care who lives there so long as the rent is paid and the place is kept well. I'm not in the business of micromanaging tenants.
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06-02-2019, 14:32   #21
beauf
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OP what problem are you actually trying to fix? Why is three poeple better than four?...
That they broke the lease I assume.

Are leases not important for you?
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06-02-2019, 14:37   #22
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Op if they are not playing by the rules you need to be concerned. It could be tip of the iceberg in long run
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06-02-2019, 14:41   #23
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The wisest move for the OP is to terminate the lease.
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06-02-2019, 14:46   #24
SusanC10
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From a Tenant perspective here (albeit 15+ years ago).

My Husband and I did this in Dublin before we were married while renting and saving for a Mortgage. We rented a 3 Bed House with 2 other friends. The Landlords were a retired couple who did not live in Dublin. They were looking for 3 Professionals and so 3 out of the 4 of us met them with my Husband and I omitting the fact that we were a couple.

We could all afford one-third of the Rent. But for various reasons we were all saving. Husband & I took the largest en-suite room and the 4 of us split the Rent equally.

Our friends were a married friend of my Husband whose wife lived their home in Cork and he was there Mon-Thurs and a friend of mine who spent most nights with her boyfriend at the time.

We kept the place very well. The Landlords always gave notice when calling so we were prepared.

My Husband and I were the first to leave that house and when we were meeting the Landlords for the last time, they told us that they knew from very early on about the 4th person. One of the neighbours had told them. But the Rent was paid on time and the house was very well looked after so they had decided not to say anything.
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06-02-2019, 14:48   #25
Wabbit Ears
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The wisest move for the OP is to terminate the lease.

a fine way to absolutely guarantee good tenants turning bad overnight. Like really, how exactly does anyone thing trying to evict them over this will play out? They go.. yes, we were bad and will take our punishment without any consequences? seriously like
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06-02-2019, 15:05   #26
Squatter
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From a Tenant perspective here (albeit 15+ years ago).

My Husband and I did this in Dublin before we were married while renting and saving for a Mortgage. We rented a 3 Bed House with 2 other friends. The Landlords were a retired couple who did not live in Dublin. They were looking for 3 Professionals and so 3 out of the 4 of us met them with my Husband and I omitting the fact that we were a couple.

We could all afford one-third of the Rent. But for various reasons we were all saving. Husband & I took the largest en-suite room and the 4 of us split the Rent equally.

Our friends were a married friend of my Husband whose wife lived their home in Cork and he was there Mon-Thurs and a friend of mine who spent most nights with her boyfriend at the time.

We kept the place very well. The Landlords always gave notice when calling so we were prepared.

My Husband and I were the first to leave that house and when we were meeting the Landlords for the last time, they told us that they knew from very early on about the 4th person. One of the neighbours had told them. But the Rent was paid on time and the house was very well looked after so they had decided not to say anything.
Ah, but 15 years ago was long before FG's very own Laurel and Hardy (aka Leo and Eoghan) launched a full frontal assault on landlords' rights.
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06-02-2019, 15:06   #27
SusanC10
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Ah, but 15 years ago was long before FG's very own Laurel and Hardy (aka Leo and Eoghan) launched a full frontal assault on landlords.
Very true!

But I suppose I am thinking that if the Tenants are paying on time and looking after the place then maybe not the worst thing.
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06-02-2019, 15:06   #28
beauf
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a fine way to absolutely guarantee good tenants turning bad overnight. Like really, how exactly does anyone thing trying to evict them over this will play out? They go.. yes, we were bad and will take our punishment without any consequences? seriously like


You say they are good tenants even thought they broke the lease and YOU reckon they will cause trouble in the future.
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06-02-2019, 15:15   #29
Wheres Me Jumper?
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they signed a lease. if they break it then need to be served notice, unless you are not that bothered by the extra person(s). if you aren't bothered then leave them. (i wouldn't btw)

tenants are like cars, once they start giving you trouble, then you're best rid of 'em.

if the property is in Dublin, you will have no problem getting new tenants, who will play ball and comply with the terms of the lease. their loss.
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06-02-2019, 15:26   #30
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they signed a lease. if they break it then need to be served notice, unless you are not that bothered by the extra person(s). if you aren't bothered then leave them. (i wouldn't btw)

tenants are like cars, once they start giving you trouble, then you're best rid of 'em.

if the property is in Dublin, you will have no problem getting new tenants, who will play ball and comply with the terms of the lease. their loss.
The OP could well be throwing out a paying tenant end up getting in a non paying tenant.
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