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We don't need interstellar travel

  • 13-01-2020 10:02pm
    #1
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭


    An idea my friend and I were discussing.

    We discussed how in the future humans might be able to create a sort of quantum radio that uses entanglement to communicate in real time with other intelligent life all over the universe.

    Of course this will depend on other species designing something that could receive our signals etc but maybe there are obvious fundamentals that can be adhered to.

    Back on point. If we can communicate in real time with other species then why not send them our genetic code and have them create a human on their end. We could even send educational material so that the individual could be raised as close to how a human could be on earth.

    So, no need to actually travel across the universe but figure out a way to communicate in real time and send them our genetic code etc.


Comments

  • #2
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    An idea my friend and I were discussing.

    We discussed how in the future humans might be able to create a sort of quantum radio that uses entanglement to communicate in real time with other intelligent life all over the universe.
    I don't think current theories of entanglement allow for instantaneous communication across space.


  • #3
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    I don't think current theories of entanglement allow for instantaneous communication across space.

    That is definitely true. I suppose the main point i was trying to make is that we have advanced our knowledge of what makes us human on a biological level that we could technically send what makes us human over the wire so that another species could build one of us. Instead of us having to visit these other species.


  • #4
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    We'll self evolve firstly into cyborgs and eventually once the technology is ready info fully electronic beings...if we don't destroy ourselves before developing said technology.

    Entanglement comms a non runner unfortunately so we'd have to migrate to data/electronic beings and travel by radio waves or by some physical propulsion method. Spacetime is a bitch


  • #5
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    M5 wrote: »
    We'll self evolve firstly into cyborgs and eventually once the technology is ready info fully electronic beings...if we don't destroy ourselves before developing said technology.

    Entanglement comms a non runner unfortunately so we'd have to migrate to data/electronic beings and travel by radio waves or by some physical propulsion method. Spacetime is a bitch


    Ok, but even if entanglement comms is a non runner why not just send our genome out using radio waves. Then maybe in the future a yet to be evolved species picks up signal and eventually makes a human.


  • #6
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    That is definitely true. I suppose the main point i was trying to make is that we have advanced our knowledge of what makes us human on a biological level that we could technically send what makes us human over the wire so that another species could build one of us. Instead of us having to visit these other species.
    Ah ok. Yes I agree. If we discover other civilizations out there and we can communicate with them, we'll certainly send vast amounts of information to them once communications are established. It will probably be easier for them to construct versions of us (and vice versa) than physically travel there. Probably AI models first before biological models.


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  • #7
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Ah ok. Yes I agree. If we discover other civilizations out there and we can communicate with them, we'll certainly send vast amounts of information to them once communications are established. It will probably be easier for them to construct versions of us (and vice versa) than physically travel there. Probably AI models first before biological models.

    I'll see if Christopher nolan is free to help with the film script. Lol


  • #8
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    Ok, but even if entanglement comms is a non runner why not just send our genome out using radio waves. Then maybe in the future a yet to be evolved species picks up signal and eventually makes a human.

    In what direction?

    Even if we assume that the radio wave could be sent with infinite power in all directions for say 100,000 years (all of which are pretty much impossible) the odds of that being received by a a capable species is constrained by time as well as space. We have no idea how long advanced civilisations last, but again for arguments sake lets say 100,000 years before they boil their own planet(a huge stretch based on our current sample density) The odds of that radio wave reaching them is infinitesimal!

    They may be alive now, but dead when the signal arrives, or they may be at a earlier stage in evolution.

    Sadly this element of spacetime pretty much means we probably wont ever make contact with intelligent life. There may be life out there, but when?


  • #9
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    ZxEBHZI.jpg


  • #10
    markjbloggs
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭markjbloggs


    M5 wrote: »
    ZxEBHZI.jpg

    How coherent are those radio waves at that distance?


  • #11
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    markjbloggs wrote: »
    How coherent are those radio waves at that distance?

    Inverse square rule applies I think?

    In lay man's terms, you'd need very sensitive equipment


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  • #12
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    There's also massive amounts of noise in space that effects radio waves. Furthermore over intergalactic scales space time itself will distort the radio wave


  • #13
    markjbloggs
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭markjbloggs


    So over sufficiently large distances, coherent signals from earth degenerate into "noise" ?


  • #14
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    markjbloggs wrote: »
    So over sufficiently large distances, coherent signals from earth degenerate into "noise" ?

    Depends on power I guess? Not my area of expertise!

    Also expansion will redshift the signal

    The premise seems flawed in many ways unfortunately


  • #15
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    There is always the possibility of new yet unknown forms of long distance communication (or signalling) being developed.

    Here is a very short but interesting piece on quantum communication I just read. I sure the web is littered with plenty more. Maybe one day quantum communication will be the norm.


  • #16
    Fourier
    Registered Users Posts: 10,558 ✭✭✭✭Fourier


    First related to what was mentioned above, entanglement doesn't allow for instantaneous communication because it doesn't allow for communication at all since there is nothing transmitted, i.e. no energy or anything is sent from one particle to the other.

    Secondly you can't really send them human genetic information to build a human because you can't do anything with the genome without the complex biochemical environment of an already living human cell. Easy for us with them already present, but not for the aliens. Like having a programming language source without the compiler if the compiler were a physical machine.


  • #17
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    There is always the possibility of new yet unknown forms of long distance communication (or signalling) being developed.

    Here is a very short but interesting piece on quantum communication I just read. I sure the web is littered with plenty more. Maybe one day quantum communication will be the norm.

    All new forms of communication are subject to limitations of spacetime, information being part of the fabric of spacetime...

    Also the timing issue referred to still remains


  • #18
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    markjbloggs wrote: »
    How coherent are those radio waves at that distance?
    Not very. And it's just noise since it all went digital.

    High power AM radio is practically gone.

    3Ghz radar or 50Hz mains power would be much stronger signals


  • #19
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Not very. And it's just noise since it all went digital.

    High power AM radio is practically gone.

    3Ghz radar or 50Hz mains power would be much stronger signals

    Would path loss, Inverse square etc allow for intergalactic transmission realistically? I'm assuming the answer is no, based on little evidence though


  • #20
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Interplanetary spaceflight first. Interstellar second.


  • #21
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Fathom wrote: »
    Interplanetary spaceflight first. Interstellar second.
    Unless you have a very compact energy source avoid gravity wells.

    Learn to live on asteroids.

    Then travel to the stars on them

    Travelling slowly means the closest star now may not be the one you reach soonest.

    749px-Near-stars-past-future-en.svg.png

    Even at speeds we can achieve ET could have populated the entire galaxy long ago.


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  • #22
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    M5 wrote: »
    Would path loss, Inverse square etc allow for intergalactic transmission realistically? I'm assuming the answer is no, based on little evidence though
    Nope. We no longer use raw power to burn through the background noise. The days of Marconi using six foot long sparks to get across the Atlantic are gone.

    If you want to setup a dedicated radio link in Ireland you have to apply to Comreg.
    The power limit will be set to just over what you'd need to have a reliable link in bad weather.

    Cellular phones and digital terrestrial TV and satellites all reuse frequencies in the next area over. The days of picking up South Africa on VHF Band I are gone forever

    And a lot more data is being carried on fibre.


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