Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

NTA Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy Review

135

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,853 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Restoration of the silver bridge joining Waterstown park in Palmerstown and Farmleigh would be a great first step (for walker and cyclists). Surprised there doesn't seem to be any action on it. It's been on the council's radar and many councillors have had it in their election manifestos for years.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There has been no change whatsoever to the Strategy since 2016, it's legislatively underpinned. It cannot be changed on a whim. Despite the issues in Beechwood, the Metro is still planned to go to Sandyford and then to Bride's Glen by 2035. The NTA are legally required to pursue this alignment.

    There's no evidence anywhere to suggest that metro services will not be extended to Bride's Glen between 2027 and 2035. The only timeframe given for the metro from Charlemont to Sandyford is the year by which the upgrade MUST be made to meet capacity.
    May 2019
    The goal is still, of the Strategy, to deliver a metro to Sandyford. Simply, we are not going to do it now, or in the short term.

    — Paolo Carbone, Head of Public Transport Capital Programmes at Transport Infrastructure Ireland


    The legislation you seem to be referring to is S12 of the Dublin Transport Authority Act 2008, and you may be further confusing it with S13 (integrated implementation plan). Nothing in the act requires the National Transport Authority (or anyone else) to actually follow the strategy.

    Further,

    (16) Where the Authority has made a transport strategy, it shall not later than 6 years after the making of the strategy and not less than once in every period of 6 years thereafter, review such strategy and when so reviewing, it may revoke the strategy and make a new strategy.
    It appears that you're completely incorrect? Would love to hear otherwise however!


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    ...Nothing in the act requires the National Transport Authority (or anyone else) to actually follow the strategy....

    I'm not referring to the Act, I referring to the countless amount of times representatives from the NTA clarify that the Strategy is legislatively underpinned and they are required to follow it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I'm not referring to the Act, I referring to the countless amount of times representatives from the NTA clarify that the Strategy is legislatively underpinned and they are required to follow it.

    It is fair comment to say though, that the strategy can change as an outcome of the legislatively underpinned review that is now starting to take place.

    But until that review is completed, you're correct in saying that the strategy must be implemented as it currently stands.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    It is fair comment to say though, that the strategy can change as an outcome of the legislatively underpinned review that is now starting to take place.

    But until that review is completed, you're correct in saying that the strategy must be implemented as it currently stands.

    I don't think anyone is disputing that the review can change the strategy. That's required in the legislation after all.

    The original comment by strassenwolf which started this was:
    Since 2016 there has been a significant change to the strategy shown in your image: the NTA no longer intend to build a metro to Sandyford within the lifetime of this plan.

    Which is just plainly wrong.

    As for the earlier comment about whether the NTA has to follow the strategy. This is also in the legislation. It has to "take all reasonably practical steps to implement it". There's a bit of wriggle room there. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Hugh Cregan will be sent to prison if a metro to Bride's Glen isn't built by 2035 but it's not right to say that the NTA doesn't have to follow the strategy.
    (15) As soon as practicable after the Minister has notified the Authority that he or she has approved a transport strategy, the Authority shall publish it and take all reasonably practical steps to implement it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Peregrine wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is disputing that the review can change the strategy. That's required in the legislation after all.

    The original comment by strassenwolf which started this was:



    Which is just plainly wrong.

    As for the earlier comment about whether the NTA has to follow the strategy. This is also in the legislation. It has to "take all reasonably practical steps to implement it". I don't think anyone is suggesting that Hugh Cregan will be sent to prison if a metro to Bride's Glen isn't built by 2035 but it's not right to say that the NTA doesn't have to follow the strategy.

    Quite so. I would agree with all of that.

    Sorry, but I've long since had that particular poster blanked out using the ignore facility and I in general avoid reading any quoted posts of his, so I don't have to read the daft ramblings, so wasn't fully aware of his statements.

    In the case of Metrolink, I think a fairer description of the current situation would be that as a result of the public consultation, the original implementation plan of the strategy changed.

    It would also be fair to say that while the strategy remains unchanged currently, the implementation of Metrolink south of Charlemont will depend on the strategy review that is ongoing. It would be naive to say that the NTA will blindly go on with the implementation regardless.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As for the earlier comment about whether the NTA has to follow the strategy. This is also in the legislation. It has to "take all reasonably practical steps to implement it". There's a bit of wriggle room there. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Hugh Cregan will be sent to prison if a metro to Bride's Glen isn't built by 2035 but it's not right to say that the NTA doesn't have to follow the strategy.
    There's an infinite level of wiggle room in it. Reasonable is contextual, practical is contextual, and it makes no mention of timeliness.

    It's a guideline rather than a legal requirement.

    If you'd like some evidence, how about how the 16 core bus routes of Busconnects are already changed from the 16 core bus routes identified in the Strategy? Or the changes to the orbital routes? or how BRT lines are completely off the agenda - despite the strategy not having changed and it being 'legally required'?

    MnKSimp.png
    TJchNpn.png

    Considering these routes require planning permission and will eventually represent an investment of a decade or so + hundreds of millions of Euros, if these aren't 'legally underpinned' how is it that the Metro is?


  • Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I think we have diverged quite a bit from the spirit of the argument being made, we have had no indication whatsoever that the NTA is not determined to upgrade the green line.

    The dropping of the Metro South section was primarily due to the sewerage issues, and yes there are a number of logistical problems with implementation that they should definitely go back to the drawing board on to figure out an optimal solution during construction.

    But unless the reviewed Strategy comes out and the green line upgrade is dropped, I would say that the people who actually matter in making those decisions are still planning to build it.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    The Draft Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area will be published in a few weeks. It was supposed to be published in the summer but I was told late September a few weeks ago. It could be October at this rate.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Make that November. The NDP launch in the first week of October will tell us a good bit though.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭Bsharp


    Presume anything not firmed up in GDA Strategy yet is to the back of the funding envelope, so post NDP.

    All feels so academic once again.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    November 4th is the provisional publication date for the new Draft Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,284 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Is there any indication at all that projects like the Metrolink spur to UCD Belfield & the Navan Rail line will be included to be built in future in this revised strategy.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    No way to say, really. We'll have to wait for the Draft Strategy (now due on the 9th). The new Strategy will take us out to 2042 which is a long time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    DART Underground indefinitely shelved. No other rail lines to be operational before 2031. Hilariously bad.

    Planning and design work will be undertaken on eight more Luas routes to ClongriffinBalgriffin, Tyrellstown, BlanchardstownClondalkinTallaght / Kimmage, Tallaght / Knocklyon and UCD/ Sandyford. However, no construction is due to take place on these lines before 2042.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    21 years gets you this.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    That’s actually been the plan since 2016 so you can make that 26 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭jd


    RTE reporting this - I hope they have it wrong

    "However MetroLink - for which the cost is reported to have increased to €10bn - will not see construction start for at least another ten years.

    This would mean its earliest completion date would be 2037 - ten years later than originally planned"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    It's shocking that this is the best we can achieve when our economy is arguably at its strongest coupled with the availability of cheap credit on the international markets to fund infrastructure projects.

    It's hard to stay positive that MetroLink and DART Underground will ever go ahead considering how unambitious the Government appears to be. Shocking performance by the Green Party in particular. We've got a few cycle lanes and that's about it. So uninspiring and just overall 'meh'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    I knew this was coming when I heard 'more expensive than 10 Luas lines' was being fed to us by the propagandists in the Irish media.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    2016 plan had Metro south of Charlemont so it's actually less ambitious and 26 years.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    They are showing existing lines there, so all we have by 2042 is the metro link and two new Luas lines.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And two Luas extensions, one of which has been proposed for a decade and a half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    What is the second luas line? All I'm seeing is one new luas line to Lucan, plus three extensions.

    That said, it is slightly disingenuous of the IT to report that no new train or tram lines will be built in Dublin for at least twenty years when Metro will be delivered during that time ...it's still a disappointing result nonetheless though, and it begs the question: what have the NTA and TII been doing over the last seven years given that no major public transport infrastructure projects have been initiated since Luas cross-city.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    that Finglas-Bray tram line though - never mind the quality, feel the length!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    Not gonna lie, living in Cabra I'm pretty excited to be able to get the Green line straight to Bray. If I'm not dead by then. Shame that Bray will be underwater in 2042



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,284 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I'm really disappointed with the outcomes of this review being published today. If the Government is pretty serious about our GHG emissions from the Climate AP released last Thursday; l would say right now that with all of the other transport projects being delayed in the NDP because of a lack of funding. You better prepare for a disappointing outcome if the next 10 years have passed. They won't be reduced by very much at all if we get to 2030.

    Metrolink not being built until 2037 is a real scandal IMO. It's a very painful decision to announce it to the public in this way. I will be hitting my late 40's if I get ever a chance to use it if it actually gets built in Dublin at all. The likes of Dublin Airport will be waiting for another 16 years for Metrolink to be built & used by their passengers & for their staff who live out in Swords. This means that these people will still have to rely on using buses, taxis and private cars to get to the airport over the medium & long term until this thing finally gets built for them to actually use it. It's really looks that grim for the want of a better word.

    The report on this strategy today by John Kilraine of RTÉ News did not mention BusConnects on the One O'Clock News but it is mentioned on the app & website.

    Was anything mentioned in the review today about either the mooted Dart+ South West extension to Kildare or about the committment to the Navan Rail line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    A new bus livery and soon a new bus numbering scheme



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    To be fair the strategy doesn't say metro link is delayed by 10 years, just that it'll be after 2031 and it also says quite firmly that the project will be progressed pending a successful railway order in 2022. Which I think could happen. Will government hand over the cash in 2022 though is the question.

    I reject the NTA's assertion that there are extreme budgetary constraints. There has been no significant capital expenditure on public transport in Ireland since luas cross city was finished in 2017. Surely the capital budget for 2018 to 2022 can be saved for starting construction on a new project in 2022/3


    If construction on metrolink starts in 2023 surely it would not take 8 years to complete? Its not really that complex a project internationally speaking.



Advertisement