Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Frank Bullitt · 13-05-2021 3:57pm

sk8board wrote: »

It really doesn’t matter if it was Mercedes protested it or someone else, this one is a slam dunk.
They all see the RB wing was flexing, the pit Lane is a very small community and every team has a race team back at HQ monitoring every last thing - merc’s HQ race team is over 60 people

Like the RP brake ducts last year, only one team needs to protest (although Mclaren and Renault both took the lead that time, a s Renault then further appealed it too). ditto for the secret Ferrari trouble the previous season.
A protest from the heritage teams probably carry’s more weight.

A slam dunk for what though?

The wing passes all the FIA stress tests, so it is not illegal. If the FIA change the loads for that test, and RB have to make adjustments to it then I am sure they will do.

FIA have said June, RB will test it themselves before that so they may or may not have to change something. The comparison to the brake duct isn't the same as that was seen as a direct copy, this case is more so the advantage a team may have with a clever component.

Frank Bullitt · 13-05-2021 4:53pm

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-red-bull-heckflugel-hamilton-anklage/

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons.

But there is another reason why Red Bull remains so calm. Sport1 learned: Unfortunately, the FIA regular guards do not target the Verstappen team at all, but rather Alpine. The former Renault factory team is said to be the biggest champion in bending. This would prove top-speed measurements.

RB sound very calm about what may come their way, which I hope doesn't ruin this close season.

sk8board · 13-05-2021 6:15pm

When I say a slam dunk, I mean that the tolerances on modern F1 cars are calibrated to a phenomenal degree - if a wing is flexing under load by a millimetre, it’s being done intentionally.

Hijpo · 13-05-2021 6:19pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-red-bull-heckflugel-hamilton-anklage/

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons.

RB sound very calm about what may come their way, which I hope doesn't ruin this close season.

Which beggars the question, do they set the tests to bring everyone to a standard which is even more ridged than the merc or do they tailor the test to bring everyone in line with merc which again would be penalising everyone to a standard that merc has already adapted to.

Frank Bullitt · 13-05-2021 6:32pm

sk8board wrote: »

When I say a slam dunk, I mean that the tolerances on modern F1 cars are calibrated to a phenomenal degree - if a wing is flexing under load by a millimetre, it’s being done intentionally.

Precisely. RB have (probably) used a certain type of carbon fibre weave that moves under a specific load at a specific time.

To be clear though, all wings on all cars flex. They need flex or they would shatter under load. It is why buildings flex and aeroplane wings do the same. RB have done this stuff before, and there are videos of it from last year as well.

Merc said nothing then because it had a clear advantage with its car over the whole field. It is only using this now because the fight is so close.

[Deleted User] · 13-05-2021 6:52pm

Are all the side-to-side wobbles of the wing deliberate as well? Can't imagine that helps with airflow...

They're gonna build it as weak as they can to comply with the stress tests.

Also the red lines are purely in relation to the camera, the wing is attached to the rear of the car which squats down under load/high speed. So the wing "flex" will be less than what those gridlines indicate. Plus Red Bull run higher rake so there's more scope for the rear to squat further.

Frank Bullitt · 13-05-2021 7:10pm

Buttonftw wrote: »

Are all the side-to-side wobbles of the wing deliberate as well? Can't imagine that helps with airflow...

They're gonna build it as weak as they can to comply with the stress tests.

Also the red lines are purely in relation to the camera, the wing is attached to the rear of the car which squats down under load/high speed. So the wing "flex" will be less than what those gridlines indicate. Plus Red Bull run higher rake so there's more scope for the rear to squat further.

The wing isn't mounted to the suspension though, it is mounted to the crash structure on the chassis (I think?). So the squat at the back relative to the camera shouldn't be that much, the camera and wing are on the chassis and not parts that naturally move like suspension or wheels.

However, you make a good point about the rake that RB run. The car is higher at the back so there might be some merit in how that effects the movement.

Joeface · 13-05-2021 7:12pm

Is it not the case that the camera is fixed with in the chassis and moves with the chassis so the wing is moving separately , and it appears to tilt back more than move down

Maybe I'm reading/seeing it differently .

sk8board · 13-05-2021 8:16pm

Joeface wrote: »

Is it not the case that the camera is fixed with in the chassis and moves with the chassis so the wing is moving separately , and it appears to tilt back more than move down

Maybe I'm reading/seeing it differently .

Yep, it’s effectively rotating backwards under load.

Joeface · 13-05-2021 8:51pm

Should be titled "Baby DRS"

vectra · 14-05-2021 1:51am

Red bull wing allowed for the next 3 races,
Going to be banned from France I believe.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/red-bull-rear-wing-set-to-be-banned-with-new-fia-technical-directive

Northern Monkey · 14-05-2021 7:20am

Has to be a red bull gives you wings joke in there somewhere.

T-Maxx · 14-05-2021 10:06am

This is ridiculous and shows how artificial F1 has become. Something is either legal or not – if the powers that be don’t like it then fine, change the rules for next season but you can’t go changing the rules midway through.

donspeekinglesh · 14-05-2021 10:29am

T-Maxx wrote: »

This is ridiculous and shows how artificial F1 has become. Something is either legal or not – if the powers that be don’t like it then fine, change the rules for next season but you can’t go changing the rules midway through.

Changing the tests for enforcing the rules has been going on for years. This is nothing new.

Joeface · 14-05-2021 10:33am

This is going to Hurt other teams more than Redbull cause there were a few at it

Most stuff I have seen via Reddit has Alpine , Williams and Ferrari to some extent at it as well and they don't have the engine pace of the Redbull anyway.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-05-2021 11:43am

Yeah I'd want to know if there's a safety concern with flexing wings. Or if they allow it this year and ban it next year, then bendy wings become fair game for development and that could be dangerous as teams come up with more and more innovative bendy wings.

The lesser of all evils is probably to clarify the rules, modify the test and give teams a decent time to make the necessary changes.

[Deleted User] · 14-05-2021 11:51am

Article seems a bit vague. How are they banning it exactly? Will there be tests that the teams won't be given the parameters of?

T-Maxx · 14-05-2021 12:13pm

OSI wrote: »

You can't say it's become artificial, there have been rule clarifications mid season for decades.

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Changing the tests for enforcing the rules has been going on for years. This is nothing new.

I know that - I am referring to decades ago. I guess I'm just getting to the point of giving up on it altogether at his stage. Just when we though we might have a season of battling for the lead...

AMKC · 14-05-2021 1:32pm

vectra wrote: »

Red bull wing allowed for the next 3 races,
Going to be banned from France I believe.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/red-bull-rear-wing-set-to-be-banned-with-new-fia-technical-directive

Awe that's a pity. F1 should be all about welcoming innovations like this not banning them unless it were to give one team a huge advantage.

skipper_G · 14-05-2021 1:35pm

Buttonftw wrote: »

Article seems a bit vague. How are they banning it exactly? Will there be tests that the teams won't be given the parameters of?

They're not banning anything, they issued a new technical directive advising the teams that ahead of the French Grand Prix the loads the wings are subjected to in the pull-back and push-down tests will be doubled. The teams know the new limits, can test it themselves and redesign if required

[Deleted User] · 14-05-2021 1:54pm

skipper_G wrote: »

They're not banning anything, they issued a new technical directive advising the teams that ahead of the French Grand Prix the loads the wings are subjected to in the pull-back and push-down tests will be doubled. The teams know the new limits, can test it themselves and redesign if required

Cheers, that's what I was wondering about. Wouldn't be surprised if footage with gridlines shows something similar then but Merc will be even further ahead so they won't bother moaning so much.

Harika · 14-05-2021 2:18pm

Turkey cancelled and replaced by second Austria race. France to move a week forward.
Travel restrictions to turkey made the race impossible.

AMKC · 14-05-2021 2:50pm

Awe thats a pity. Was looking forward to the Turkey race but alas it's not to be. Not really looking forward to two races in Austria.

[Deleted User] · 14-05-2021 3:33pm

AMKC wrote: »

Awe thats a pity. Was looking forward to the Turkey race but alas it's not to be. Not really looking forward to two races in Austria.

Yeah I'd rather the extra race to be added for Silverstone, they have the weekends free it looks like. Could probably sell a ****-ton more tickets as well.

Adamocovic · 14-05-2021 5:20pm

It’s bad I know but I’m really looking forward to Manaco just to see how Mazepin handles the track.

A lot of jokes about how he will do but be fun to see if he survives the week without a mistake.

When he last raced there in 2019 he did decent I suppose but that was F2, and he’s struggling with that Haas.

flazio · 14-05-2021 6:13pm

They should bring forward the sprint trial from Silverstone to the second Spielberg GP. Make for a good comparison between what did and didn't work.

Inquitus · 14-05-2021 6:20pm

flazio wrote: »

They should bring forward the sprint trial from Silverstone to the second Spielberg GP. Make for a good comparison between what did and didn't work.

That's a great idea, direct comparison of the 2. That's why it will never happen lol!

Frank Bullitt · 14-05-2021 7:27pm

skipper_G wrote: »

They're not banning anything, they issued a new technical directive advising the teams that ahead of the French Grand Prix the loads the wings are subjected to in the pull-back and push-down tests will be doubled. The teams know the new limits, can test it themselves and redesign if required

There is also still the possibility that the new directive will still mean that rear wings could flex. These teams are clever and know how to exploit that.

RB were doing it last year, this also shows the Merc will play every card they can to get an advantage.

I just hope it doest ruin the rest of the season.

Frank Bullitt · 14-05-2021 7:51pm

https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-anderson-on-flexi-f1-wings-and-the-tricks-behind-them/

Gary Anderson shedding some light on it, interesting article indeed.

Jordan 199 · 15-05-2021 3:05am

Monaco up next. Kobayashi was 'flying' there in 2012:

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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