Pellet stoves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sunroom we have blocked off with triple glazed sliding door.....thats another days work...at the moment that is used as playroom

We have this as the large sitting room. It leads onto the kitchen via a arch opening so no door in it. It means during the winter this room is like an ice box even with radiators and it pulls the heat out of the kitchen as well....

We end up using another sitting room during winter which is a waste of the room

Pic attached

That's a lot of space that could be better used to be honest, our conservatory would be much smaller.

https://woodsmokepollution.org/pellet-stoves.html#targetText=Problems%20with%20Pellets,as%20a%20cleaner%20burning%20option.&targetText=A%20pellet%20stove%20can%20emit,1800%20times%20that%20of%20gas.

Pellet stoves are promoted as a cleaner burning option. However, while it is true they emit fewer particulates than a log-burning stove, they are still significantly more polluting than a non-wood-burning form of heat. A pellet stove can emit 15 times more PM2.5 particulate pollution than oil heating, and up to 1800 times that of gas.



Some Emissions Not Counted Officially
Photo of pellets burning.
As one study noted, emissions tests for pellet stoves generally omit the start-up and stop phases of operation. Yet, it is during these “transient operations” that pellet stoves produce “significantly high emissions such as carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon from incomplete combustion.” The researchers noted that when these higher-emitting phases of the burn cycle are included, the pellet stoves exceed their “eco” certification limits.



Another study similarly concluded that the emissions from pellet stoves “measured according to technical standards does not provide representative data with respect to a real domestic utilization,” due to differences in operation and combustion conditions as well as the exclusion of the start-up phase from testing. This study also noted that settings on pellet stoves are often not optimized for the type of pellet being burned, further increasing emissions of various compounds.


It has also been demonstrated that carcinogenic and mutagenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) emitted from pellet stoves during start-up “have a higher toxicological burden” than during steady-state burning and that the ignition phase contributes substantially to the overall pollution output from pellet stoves. The researchers of this study concluded, “… in order to evaluate the real impact of pellet stoves on the environment, transient conditions should be taken into account. The ignition phase, even though it lasts only 20 minutes, can significantly contribute to pollutant emission.”



Pellet Stove Emissions
A study by the Northeast States for Coordinated Air Use Management (NESCAUM) noted that the combustion of wood pellets “produces atmospheric emissions of particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, volatile organic compounds, mineral residues, and to a lesser extent sulfur oxides.”



Pellets, however, are assumed to be cleaner than other kinds of wood combustion, largely on the assumption that pellets are relatively uniform in content and low in moisture, and their combustion in automated pellet stoves is more controlled than that of log-burning stoves. However, emissions can still vary significantly depending upon what kind of pellet stove is used, how it is operated and what kind of pellets are used.



Pellet Quality Impurities
The NESCAUM study analyzed 23 wood chip samples and 132 wood pellet samples manufactured in the U.S. and Canada and available for sale in eastern parts of the United States. They found that most of the pellets tested would meet U.S. voluntary standards, but would not be likely to meet the higher standards for residential use in Europe.


Some pellet samples in their study had “unusually high concentrations of several heavy metals, including arsenic, copper and chromium.” It was assumed that this was due to the use of recycled preservative-treated and painted waste wood. Their analysis found a wide range of results, with many samples “higher than the ‘normal’ benchmark value.” Some samples had levels of heavy metals 4 to 7 times higher than the next highest sample.



Photo of bag of pellets displaying a California Prop 65 toxicity warning.
A legally mandated warning label on a bag of wood pellets in California.
They also found that some pellets, in spite of claiming to be made from debarked wood, were “distinctly elevated for many metals,” while others were “relatively clean.” They found “no clear pattern relative to barked or debarked wood and elevated levels of metals as might be expected.” Even different samples from the same brands often had differing levels of contaminants.



Some pellets that were darker, suggesting the inclusion of bark, had high cadmium concentrations. The study noted that high cadmium concentrations have been found in the bark of coniferous trees, debarked pine and willow. Trees generally store the metals that they absorb through the roots in their bark, which tends to have higher cadmium levels than in core wood.



Others researchers have also noted the heavy metal content in both pellet and log-burning stove ashes.



Toxic PAHs in Pellet Ashes
It has also been noted that ash from pellet stoves contains highly toxic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). One study notes that ash is often used as a soil amendment, and recommends that ash from pellet stoves not be used on plants destined for human and animal food due to toxicity concerns.



Pellet Emissions: Small Particle Size
Other research has shown that the particles from pellet stoves, although fewer in number than from a log-burning stove, tend to be in the small PM1 size range that are particularly damaging to health (please see our Particulate Pollution page for more information about fine particulates).

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I just bite the bullet.....I will be broke for a month

Went with the Stanley http://stoneandstoves.ie/product/8kw-solis-k100/

In the red as well......8kW

The Innofire was the other option from same company but they had none in stock and 4+ weeks before delivery and had installer ready to go, couldnt be bothered arguing with Misses so just bite the bullet......install 1st week of October

Nice well done , decision made .

What's the cost of installation if you don't mind me asking ?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Pull the fireplace out yourself...normally the fireplace itself is huge and most of it is covered in the surround

I had a 4 bed house before with fireplace, got guy to pull it out and put in insert wood burner stove....the size of the fireplace was huge when he took off surround etc

What size room is it?

Small enough room roughly about 23 Sq M.

Yeah I might do that, or consult someone local who can advise me lol.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Alll looks good but wait till you get price here

Sticking up a price for something in the other part of world and then trying to translate just by currency doesn’t work

I looked before at the air to water heater for immersion, other countries it looks reasonable

Ireland it was crazy money

I'm trying to get that company in Galway to see if they can retrofit the W2W Heat Pump, actually I think it was you who put me on to it ? the HP is made by Heliotherm. But trying to get anyone in Ireland to come out is always a challenge but this will replace the main heating which needs replacing, most of the rads and it needs some modernising, the Boiler is probably fine, it's a 30 Kw if I remember correctly.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Could have been me :-)



That's job after this.....I got a price....eye watering.....



More or less 20k some of the guys wanted.....crazy stuff


I willbe doing a bit of work myself so expect that to be chopped in half


Keep the oil boiler to to up heating


Electricity is the concern....with 2 electric showers(T90), 2 car chargers and then a heat pump :eek: I would need to upgrade the supply.....

20 K for what setup ? what does this include ?

Yeah 20 K would buy over 20 years worth of oil, I am thinking of installing solar PV after that to help run it.

But the real issue I have with HP is what happens if it breaks out of warranty or after 20 years ? what's the real savings after so long ? How long will the HP last and how much to replace etc.

It's going to cost me I estimate around 3 K to upgrade the current heating and then I'm still on oil. But Oil has fallen in cost now compared to last year.

1000 L of Oil will cost around 680 now compared to 800 this time last year so I hope it's a trend that continues.

If that HP 0lddog showed can be got for a decent price in Ireland it would be ideal for keeping the sitting room ticking over during the day and I could just change the open gas fire to normal open fire for when People come over I could just light a few logs in it.

I have the wonderful Efel 10 Kw Oil Stove in the Kitchen/Dining area which can also heat the conservatory if we need. It is very light on oil and provides good heat even when turned down low.

I was just out cutting the lawn and I see the piles of wood I have to cut up and loads more to cut from trees etc so think I'm going to just go with a much cheaper wood/multifuel stove.

+ I got a mountain of garden waste that I could burn but need a way to cut it and make it suitable for burning, you know bits of small branches and twigs etc ? anyone know of a good way to kind of make that into logs ?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Job done, up and running.....great job so far

I like that, well done , looks great !

What ate the dimensions of the stove ?

Yeah I like it. Way too big for my Sitting room, 8 Kw , I'd need 3 Kw probably max.