Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Off Topic Thread 5.0

12223252728291

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    There are three possible reasons for sticking by him (that I can think of):

    1. Without Cummings, Johnson is rudderless and doesn't have a clue how to manage anything. Also because of his ability to gaslight the nation for elections. (I'm leaning towards this one).

    2. Cummings has 'something' on Johnson (the conspiracy theory - of which I'm not a fan, but it's out there).

    3. Backers of Johnson have insisted he keeps him on. There are plenty of candidates for this, but top of the pile would be the press barons like Murdoch and the Barclay brothers who all think the sun shines from Cummings' nether orifice because of brexit.

    The 'why' doesn't really matter anymore, it's pretty clear the public think he should go and he made it worse when he tried to bull**** them. Now it's an "us v them" and Boris is completely on the wrong side of the public for the first time.

    His popularity is tanking and everything that happens from here on out is contextualised by this new reality and perception of this Government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    edd03c1979602d3b879317dcbda2fbb5.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,162 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    First one is probably realistic and likely. Second one is quite likely too, I'd imagine. I reckon anyone who has closely worked with BoJo for a sustained period has something on him. But that's not to say that Cummings is using that as leverage in any manner or blackmailing Johnson.

    The last item is probably something Johnson is aware of but I don't think it's really going to be a decisive factor. The media are throwing rocks at the moment but they're not doing sufficient levels of damage. What we've seen in recent times is that politicians know they're very hard to remove from office as long as they simply don't admit their mistakes or accept blame. If you double down, pander to your core support and hold your ground it's very hard to actually get you out of office.

    This is new politics and I can see it spreading beyond the nations already entrenched in it. I'm sure we can all imagine a party in Ireland holding their ground on f*ck ups where their core support back them and they admit no fault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    What happens if Johnson does resign out of curiosity? Do they have to call an election or does it just go to the next Conservative leader? I'm assuming Raab would be the favourite for that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    The latest murder of an unarmed black man, by a MAGA police man, is one of the most shocking things I’ve ever seen. The level of not giving a fvckdness on display while being videoed is unbelievable. The way that the protests were broken up, compared to the handling of armed white militias, tells you all you need to know about America under Trump. America is more institutionally racist now, than South Africa was in the 80’s.


  • Advertisement
  • Administrators Posts: 53,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    What happens if Johnson does resign out of curiosity? Do they have to call an election or does it just go to the next Conservative leader? I'm assuming Raab would be the favourite for that?
    They tories can just pick another leader. But they would be weaker politically than Johnson is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    What happens if Johnson does resign out of curiosity? Do they have to call an election or does it just go to the next Conservative leader? I'm assuming Raab would be the favourite for that?
    they dont have to call an election. Queen will ask another conservative to attempt to form a government and if they cant an election is called.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,388 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    stephen_n wrote: »
    The latest murder of an unarmed black man, by a MAGA police man, is one of the most shocking things I’ve ever seen. The level of not giving a fvckdness on display while being videoed is unbelievable. The way that the protests were broken up, compared to the handling of armed white militias, tells you all you need to know about America under Trump. America is more institutionally racist now, than South Africa was in the 80’s.
    The officers in question have been fired and a file sent to the FBI to investigate the death. I'm shocked it's happened so quickly and even at all. Too used to reading stories about lack of accountability for US cops.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Clegg wrote: »
    The officers in question have been fired and a file sent to the FBI to investigate the death. I'm shocked it's happened so quickly and even at all. Too used to reading stories about lack of accountability for US cops.

    I think that has happened before and the officers were later reinstated after the investigation exonerated them. If he ends up being convicted of murder, my faith would be somewhat restored. Time will tell though.


    Gove would be the next PM if Bobo was forced out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,162 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    America isn't racist. People are racist. There are many racist people in America and now they feel comfortable enough to declare their beliefs more openly now. When you combine that with such a chest beating, armed culture it's going to result in some very disturbing events. But these situations were happening always however just weren't as widely covered as they now are.

    In the 80s, Trump took out an ad in the media calling for the execution of 5 black men who were charged with a rape. They were convicted but subsequently released when the actual perpetrator admitted his guilt. In 1999, unarmed Amadou Diallo was shot forty one times by the NYPD. Those are two of the better known cases in a city which is generally far more tolerant and integrated than 95% of the United States. They've always been happening.

    What we now have is mediums available to record and report such incidents which is highlighting their existence. They had the ability to wipe them under the carpet previously with no evidence or appetite to prosecute. Fortunately, that is changing with these incidents being highlighted more clearly when they do take place.


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Gove would be the next PM if Bobo was forced out.

    Gove has also been pretty tainted by this and as much as he wants to be PM, if Boris's position becomes untenable then his replacement will need to come from outside the current cabinet.

    I don't think Boris is going anywhere soon, but I do think the popularity and support needed to no-deal is now gone. Similarly Starmer has been very focused on the Tory campaign promise to deliver a deal and has dropped all opposition to Brexit so he can hammer them on that repeatedly.

    I've said this was the end of the Johnson administration, I stand by that - but it's going to happen over the remainder of this year. They've lost public support and I think Boris is a bit fragile to be honest, he'll bail sooner rather than later if it all comes crashing down.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Buer wrote: »
    America isn't racist. People are racist.

    Saying "America is racist" also doesn't imply that everyone there is - as that is obviously not true. It means its systems and institutions are set up in such a way that those people who are racist are able to express that and cause consequences. And it means that those who aren't inherently racist are driven in a direction that causes these kind of incidents.

    America is fundamentally racist as far as I can see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The Statue of Liberty isn’t racist, she’s bang on. The Alamo is probably a little racist, we all know it. Mount Rushmore has been reported to have been caught having risqué conversations with itself no the subject.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,554 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    The Statue of Liberty isn’t racist, she’s bang on. The Alamo is probably a little racist, we all know it. Mount Rushmore has been reported to have been caught having risqué conversations with itself no the subject.
    Mount Rushmore is very very white. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Mount Rushmore is very very white. ;)

    2 of the guys on it were slave owners as well. But then one of the others freed the slaves. The 4th did kill a lot of brown skinned people in a colonial war as well. Could we say Mt. Rushmore is mostly racist but not fully racist?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Not to be out-crazied

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-threatens-shut-down-platforms-after-tweets-tagged-warning-2020-5?r=US&IR=T
    "Republicans feel that Social Media Platforms totally silence conservatives voices," Trump tweeted Wednesday.

    Obviously I have no idea if he genuinely believes this or not but if he does that's hilarious


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭DGRulz




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Not to be out-crazied

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-threatens-shut-down-platforms-after-tweets-tagged-warning-2020-5?r=US&IR=T



    Obviously I have no idea if he genuinely believes this or not but if he does that's hilarious

    That narrative has been around for a while now. I think there is some truth to it, if the bias is unconscious or otherwise. Silicon Valley is definitely more liberal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    That narrative has been around for a while now. I think there is some truth to it, if the bias is unconscious or otherwise. Silicon Valley is definitely more liberal.

    Facebook, twitter etc are far, far, far more useful to and utilised by right wing platforms than left. They are absolutely not "silenced", quite the opposite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, and sorry if this makes me sound like a bit of an arse, but can folks stop conflating:

    (a) what they really want to happen

    (b) what they think will happen

    and

    (c) what historical, political and empirical precedent says will probably happen

    All I want is (c), as the U2 song doesn't say.


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yvette Cooper just emptied Boris on live TV.

    I don't know how he can survive this - it's awful to watch and he is completely unconvincing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,724 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Venjur wrote: »
    Yvette Cooper just emptied Boris on live TV.

    I don't know how he can survive this - it's awful to watch and he is completely unconvincing.

    Of course he will survive this! He has an 80 seat majority. He will PM until 2024 and unless he dies (to be fair he nearly did), or decides to go himself he will be in situ until then...at least...

    As far as Yvette Cooper is concerned...you're right...I caught a bit of it on the radio, she definitely clobbered him, although so did most of the MPs


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,306 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    Boris wants people to move on.

    I'm sure you do, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, I'm sure you do.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    bilston wrote: »
    Of course he will survive this! He has an 80 seat majority. He will PM until 2024 and unless he dies (to be fair he nearly did), or decides to go himself he will be in situ until then...at least...

    As far as Yvette Cooper is concerned...you're right...I caught a bit of it on the radio, she definitely clobbered him, although so did most of the MPs

    He's in an awful lot of trouble now. 42 Mp's have broken ranks and more will follow, polls tanking fast and he couldn't commit to any kind of lockdown enforcement because it would be at odds with his stance on Cummings. It's a genuine public health issue now because they are having to equivocate during a national crisis over their hypocritical stance on Cummings breach.

    The bigger news is that based on his performance today, several more Tory MP's have turned on the Government so this is increasingly on Boris now and is rapidly turning into a vote of confidence.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin


    Venjur wrote: »
    He's in an awful lot of trouble now. 42 Mp's have broken ranks and more will follow, polls tanking fast and he couldn't commit to any kind of lockdown enforcement because it would be at odds with his stance on Cummings. It's a genuine public health issue now because they are having to equivocate during a national crisis over their hypocritical stance on Cummings breach.

    The bigger news is that based on his performance today, several more Tory MP's have turned on the Government so this is increasingly on Boris now and is rapidly turning into a vote of confidence.


    A 40 vote swing kills an 80 vote majority, so he could already be done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,162 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    When it's said that 42 have broken ranks, is that 42 MPs who have said Cummings needs to go or that they won't support Johnson and/or the government. These are two very different things.

    May lasted for 3 years with far less support from within her own party.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Buer wrote: »
    When it's said that 42 have broken ranks, is that 42 MPs who have said Cummings needs to go or that they won't support Johnson and/or the government. These are two very different things.

    May lasted for 3 years with far less support from within her own party.

    I don't think you can compare support for May with the cult of personality behind the persona that is Boris. Additionally the timelines for the big decisions Boris has to make are much tighter than May had to deal with and the stakes much higher.

    42 MP's have called for Cummings to resign, Boris has thrown the full support of the British government and cabinet behind him unequivocally. Any MP's that call for Cummings to resign at this point are simultaneously rebuking Boris.

    The public has made it's mind up on it all, each day public opinion get's worse. This is all going in one direction and the best the Government can no do is to try and stop the rot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Buer wrote: »
    When it's said that 42 have broken ranks, is that 42 MPs who have said Cummings needs to go or that they won't support Johnson and/or the government. These are two very different things.

    May lasted for 3 years with far less support from within her own party.

    This is very much the case, I would imagine none will vote against the government when push comes to shove. Bobo has removed any meaningful opposition to his leadership within the Tory party. Gove is the next in line probably but wouldn’t dare initiate anything this early into Bobo’s reign. As much as the back benchers might be uneasy, they are nearly 5 years away from having to defend their seats. This will all be well forgotten by then.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Venjur wrote: »
    I don't think you can compare support for May with the cult of personality behind the persona that is Boris. Additionally the timelines for the big decisions Boris has to make are much tighter than May had to deal with and the stakes much higher.

    42 MP's have called for Cummings to resign, Boris has thrown the full support of the British government and cabinet behind him unequivocally. Any MP's that call for Cummings to resign at this point are simultaneously rebuking Boris.

    The public has made it's mind up on it all, each day public opinion get's worse. This is all going in one direction and the best the Government can no do is to try and stop the rot.


    It's one thing to call for an aide to resign. It's another thing entirely to vote against the whip on a motion of no confidence, and risk being expelled from the party. Very few of those 42 will die on that hill if it comes to it.


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Zzippy wrote: »
    It's one thing to call for an aide to resign. It's another thing entirely to vote against the whip on a motion of no confidence, and risk being expelled from the party. Very few of those 42 will die on that hill if it comes to it.

    They won't have to - Boris has chosen a hill to die on here, he is not prepared to give up Cummings and that suggests he doesn't believe his premiership can survive without him. He's risking the viability of a pandemic response to hold onto this guy.

    He chucked a bunch of his party out of the stable without a second thought so he's hardly sentimental. There really seems to be something nefarious here and it appears the British public have whiffed it.


Advertisement