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Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

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Comments

  • #32
    Pwindedd
    Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭Pwindedd


    So what happens to the remains now, they just stay there... ?


  • #33
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    That's a claim that is being made alright. Perhaps the reason it's not more prominent in national media, though, is that there is scant evidence to say this claim is factual.

    What makes you think it isnt? Im sure there could be a completely innocent reason for these representatives who guide our morality and spirituality to have thrown the bodies of the children of those they locked away into a pit unmarked. Sure look at the churches stance on abortion, they would have hardly not treated these dead children with respect.


  • #34
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    Pwindedd wrote: »
    So what happens to the remains now, they just stay there... ?

    It's a can the church or state is scared of. They will hope it will go away, just like they thought the whistle blowers would go away.


  • #35
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    What makes you think it isnt? Im sure there could be a completely innocent reason for these representatives who guide our morality and spirituality to have thrown the bodies of the children of those they locked away into a pit unmarked. Sure look at the churches stance on abortion, they would have hardly not treated these dead children with respect.

    You say thrown, how do you know they were thrown? You're just indulging in a fantasy of your own making with close to zero insight on the matter at hand.


  • #36
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    You say thrown, how do you know they were thrown? You're just indulging in a fantasy of your own making with close to zero insight on the matter at hand.

    Oh sorry, Im sure they were carefully placed, helps make sure theres enough room for everyone.


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  • #37
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    You say thrown, how do you know they were thrown? You're just indulging in a fantasy of your own making with close to zero insight on the matter at hand.

    Do you climb into a septic tank and place a child's body in a safe place, or do you drop it through it's 5cm /5cm opening. The first would not be possible. As regards some posters saying it was a water tank probably trying to be polite, who puts a water tank below ground.


  • #38
    JohnFalstaff
    Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭JohnFalstaff


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    You say thrown, how do you know they were thrown? You're just indulging in a fantasy of your own making with close to zero insight on the matter at hand.

    Steady on horse. What sort of insight are you looking for here?

    You're picking holes in the wording of how these poor children were placed into their premature grave?

    Why not instead address the issue at hand - that these innocent children were left to die by the Catholic Church.

    I know what went on in the Home in Tuam. Those poor kids were left to die.


  • #39
    Lukker-
    Registered Users Posts: 9,405 ✭✭✭Lukker-


    Heard about this locally a few weeks ago, can't believe it hasn't been picked up nationally by now.


  • #40
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    JohnFalstaff wrote: »

    Why not instead address the issue at hand - that these innocent children were left to die by the Catholic Church.

    I know what went on in the Home in Tuam. Those poor kids were left to die.

    Wow, so you've been to the Gardai with this information, I presume? I'd expect so.


  • #41
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    Lukker- wrote: »
    Heard about this locally a few weeks ago, can't believe it hasn't been picked up nationally by now.

    Do you expect Dobbo to upset the ( as the bert would would say) apple tart.


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  • #42
    JohnFalstaff
    Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭JohnFalstaff


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Wow, so you've been to the Gardai with this information, I presume? I'd expect so.

    You trot this line out a lot. Again deflecting from the real issue.

    How do you feel when you hear of 800 dead babies buried in an unmarked grave who died in the care of the Catholic church?


  • #43
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    JohnFalstaff wrote: »
    You trot this line out a lot. Again deflecting from the real issue.

    So you haven't been to the guards!!!!? Why not, if you knew what happened? That' shocking.
    johnfalstaff wrote: »
    How do you feel when you hear of 800 dead babies buried in an unmarked grave who died in the care of the Catholic church?

    Very sad, and eager to get the bottom of it. Find out which of these claims have basis in fact and which are fiction.


  • #44
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    So you haven't been to the guards!!!!? Why not, if you knew what happened? That' shocking.



    Very sad, and eager to get the bottom of it. Find out which of these claims have basis in fact and which are fiction.

    I think the gardai have greater priorities than this, the last death was in the 60's and more than likely the people involved are dead. It would be appropriate for the state to try and identity these children and at the very least give them a human burial.


  • #45
    Lukker-
    Registered Users Posts: 9,405 ✭✭✭Lukker-


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think the gardai have greater priorities than this, the last death was in the 60's and more than likely the people involved are dead. It would be appropriate for the state to try and identity these children and at the very least give them a human burial.

    1965 isn't that long ago. That was the most recent date, so that's only about 50 years ago. Someone is alive that knows the full story so it's fully worth a full investigation, even if the offenders are long dead the truth about this can't stay buried.


  • #46
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think the gardai have greater priorities than this, the last death was in the 60's and more than likely the people involved are dead. It would be appropriate for the state to try and identity these children and at the very least give them a human burial.

    So JohnFalstaff should have gone to some arm of the state, HSE, etc, etc. record what he "knows". Unless of course all he knows are stories....


  • #47
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Lukker- wrote: »
    1965 isn't that long ago. That was the most recent date, so that's only about 50 years ago. Someone is alive that knows the full story so it's fully worth a full investigation, even if the offenders are long dead the truth about this can't stay buried.

    JohnFalstaff claims to know the full story but won't bring it to the authorities.


  • #48
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,832 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It doesn't matter how gruesome the crime, there will always be someone along to minimise, deny and obfuscate, for the greater good of the holy roman catholic church.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #49
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Lukker- wrote: »
    1965 isn't that long ago. That was the most recent date, so that's only about 50 years ago. Someone is alive that knows the full story so it's fully worth a full investigation, even if the offenders are long dead the truth about this can't stay buried.

    I wonder would elderly nuns ever be brought into a station for questioning in Roman Catholic ireland??


  • #50
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    The story seems to be getting out there - there was an opinion piece on TheJournal yesterday and Hildegarde Naughton raised the horror story in the Seanad on Thursday:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/mass-grave-galway-tuam-1494001-May2014/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TelHCLSXoQ


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I can't help but get the impression that there's a big, stinking mass of deep, dark secrets waiting to be exposed about homes like this, and that what we're seeing now and in the past few years is, sadly, only the start of what will in a matter of a few years come to be yet another RCC induced national shame. It sickens me to my core that our institution of government hasn't done and isn't currently doing more to get to the bottom of it all; that it seemingly favours the reputation of a fading church more than it does the lives and dignity of its own citizens.


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  • #52
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭Icepick


    gvn wrote: »
    I can't help but get the impression that there's a big, stinking mass of deep, dark secrets waiting to be exposed about homes like this, and that what we're seeing now and in the past few years is, sadly, only the start of what will in a matter of a few years come to be yet another RCC induced national shame. It sickens me to my core that our institution of government hasn't done and isn't currently doing more to get to the bottom of it all; that it seemingly favours the reputation of a fading church more than it does the lives and dignity of its own citizens.
    Too many citizens want it that way. Also government is full of old conservative people.


  • #53
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    gvn wrote: »
    I can't help but get the impression that there's a big, stinking mass of deep, dark secrets waiting to be exposed about homes like this, and that what we're seeing now and in the past few years is, sadly, only the start of what will in a matter of a few years come to be yet another RCC induced national shame. It sickens me to my core that our institution of government hasn't done and isn't currently doing more to get to the bottom of it all; that it seemingly favours the reputation of a fading church more than it does the lives and dignity of its own citizens.

    I think a lot of people feel its all in the past and best left there, what you don't know won't hurt you etc.


  • #54
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    gvn wrote: »
    It sickens me to my core that our institution of government hasn't done and isn't currently doing more to get to the bottom of it all; that it seemingly favours the reputation of a fading church more than it does the lives and dignity of its own citizens.
    Given how successful the church has been in avoiding financial responsibility for anything that it, or its employees, has done, it's not hard to see why the government might be cautious about rattling any more septic tanks.


  • #55
    Rother
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Rother


    If any person goes into the local garda station and states that they suspect that a crime has been committed then it must be investigated. So someone local should do this with this story in their hands and any other information they may have heard of over the years.
    If the gardai dont investigate it then, call it like it is - cover up.

    But I bet nobody has even gone to the garda station.


  • #56
    Mr_A
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    I saw mention on twitter that the Mail today has a story on another grave in Loughrea. Can't find any more than just that piece of info currently though.

    Edit: Good piece in the Sunday Indo: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/carol-hunt/collusion-of-community-religion-and-state-spawned-true-horrors-30319719.html

    UCC History Twitter account has links to a few pieces: https://twitter.com/UCCHistory


  • #57
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Mercy Sisters
    Ran Magdalene Laundries in Galway and DunLaoghaire (and one in Tralee that closed approx 1907-8)
    and industrial schools at Athlone, Goldenbridge, Tralee, Booterstown, Templemore, Galway (Renmore &
    Ballinasloe), Loughrea, Birr, Clare, Cobh, Clifden, Clonakilty, Cappoquin, Dundalk, Killarney, Kinsale,
    Mallow, Moate, Summerhill, Rathdrum, Newtownforbes, Westport, Wexford and Limerick


    http://www.magdalenelaundries.com/Research%20Guide%20for%20Relatives%20of%20Magdalene%20Women.pdf


  • #58
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Rother wrote: »

    But I bet nobody has even gone to the garda station.

    Even people who claim to know what happened and talk about in online like they have some details don't go to the Gardai. They prefer to talk about it online it seems.


  • #59
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Rother wrote: »
    If any person goes into the local garda station and states that they suspect that a crime has been committed then it must be investigated. So someone local should do this with this story in their hands and any other information they may have heard of over the years.
    If the gardai dont investigate it then, call it like it is - cover up.

    But I bet nobody has even gone to the garda station.

    Why don't you go ?


  • #60
    GCU Flexible Demeanour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    They haven't gone away, you know.

    In 1885 the Sisters were invited to nurse the sick and poor in the Tuam area.

    Bon Secours is the largest independent hospital group in Ireland with 850 beds, over 2,000 staff.

    Though times have changed, the Bon Secours mission remains the same since 1824 Sisters continue to bring compassion, healing and liberation to those they serve, either in healthcare, education or social services, in hospitals, long-term care facilities, clinics and parishes, in towns and cities and isolated villages, Bon Secours responds to a universal need: to provide to all who suffer a reason to live and a reason to hope.
    robindch wrote: »
    Hildegarde Naughton
    Hildegarde?
    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Even people who claim to know what happened and talk about in online like they have some details don't go to the Gardai. They prefer to talk about it online it seems.
    You're right to strike a note of caution. There is a need for basic factual verification. But the story isn't incredible, unfortunately. And it is terrifically significant, if true.

    The whole Dev rural, Catholic, Gaelic-speaking Ireland-we-have-dreamed-of is being held up for scrutiny. I'm not sure that anyone has written that story yet. I'm not sure where it leaves us, when someone does.


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  • #61
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    One thing I agree with in the article was the knowledge of history is important. Other than that lots of speculation by an author pushing an agenda. On that point, I'd be guilty of myself for what I've formally learnt of history is that there are rarely neutral voices.
    So for balance, I'd know that the Church took on board the dregs of society that Ireland state did not seek to engage with - that generations either ended up there or were forced to head to England based on a de facto government policy. Given the state of medical resources and skill, even in the best of circumstances, the life expectancy of children even in the most advanced of countries was less than ideal. Not to be cognisance of that fact, in the pursuit of condemning the Church shows this thread more fitting for the conspiracy forum .


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