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Suggestions for reasonably priced short term accommodation in Dublin

  • 12-11-2018 2:53pm
    #1
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭


    I have some friends who are looking to move from another European city to Dublin with their young kids.

    They intend to sell their apartment and buy in Dublin, but this (plus mortgage finance and purchase) will take a few months, so they need something short term and they're on a budget, like <1500/mo, and need a 2 bed. Ideally somewhere near the Clonskeagh-Terenure bus routes (17?).

    They have zero interest in tenancy status, so I reckon the best bet would be to get somewhere as licensees, possibly where the landlord is resident.

    Is RaR workable for this sort of arrangement? A regular house share isn't really appropriate due to their young kids.

    Are there other sorts of reasonably-priced short term lets available? Corporate is going to be way out of budget.

    Any ideas?


Comments

  • #2
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    I dont think they will find many RaR's that would take a family including children.

    I think a 1 year lease with a long term tenancy might work. Maybe AirBnB. However, Clonskeagh/Terenure or direct bus routes are going to mean city centre or South County Dublin - neither an easy market on that kind of budget. Maybe Tallaght or Saggart might be good options (Route 65 bus I think).

    Good luck - I hope they get sorted


  • #3
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    If they're getting a mortgage to buy a house, they're looking at an absolute bare minimum of 6 months to pass probation, realistically 12-18 months. There's no need to look specifically for short term properties.


  • #4
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    I suspect they will really struggle to find anywhere that will take them. Most landlords letting out 2 bed appartments are unlikely to select a family with young children, and with RPZ rent caps the family have no option to overpay/offer higher rent to persuade them to, even if budget were not an issue.

    Perhaps they should look at renting a 3 bed semi-D? Or perhaps they could offer a significant deposit to ensure landlords are not worried about wear and tear from young kids. If they are selling a place they will presumably have a fair bit of cash available to them?


  • #5
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    If they're getting a mortgage to buy a house, they're looking at an absolute bare minimum of 6 months to pass probation, realistically 12-18 months. There's no need to look specifically for short term properties.
    That's an employer thing rather than a bank thing, right? w.r.t the duration of the probation period, I mean.

    Presumably such periods are negotiable.


  • #6
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Fian wrote: »
    I suspect they will really struggle to find anywhere that will take them. Most landlords letting out 2 bed apartments are unlikely to select a family with young children, and with RPZ rent caps the family have no option to overpay/offer higher rent to persuade them to, even if budget were not an issue.

    Hmmm. That's going to be a bit of a shock for people coming from a place where family rentals are completely normal.
    Fian wrote: »
    Perhaps they should look at renting a 3 bed semi-D? Or perhaps they could offer a significant deposit to ensure landlords are not worried about wear and tear from young kids. If they are selling a place they will presumably have a fair bit of cash available to them?

    Yeah, a 3 bed might work. Or maybe a 2 bed house. There are a couple of those in the right area at under 2k/mo.

    w.r.t the RPZ rent caps thing, that's why I was thinking of something explicitly short term. But maybe it's not possible to get licensee status (and therefore relieve the landlord of "I'm going to be stuck with them" risk) without cohabiting.


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  • #7
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's an employer thing rather than a bank thing, right? w.r.t the duration of the probation period, I mean.

    Presumably such periods are negotiable.

    Both kind of.

    An employer might reduce the probation period but it’s stll going to be a block for a few months.

    The bank will want 6 months of bank records showing income, savings & expenditure. Moving by itself will cause a few months of irregular expenditure as they get set up.

    House sales also take a few months to go through even when they go smoothly.

    I’m not a broker, but presumably the lack of credit history in the state will also count against them.

    They might get it all done and over the line in under 12 months, but I’d be surprised.


  • #8
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Madness to be in a licencee arangement with kids in the mix IMHO. The owner could have a change of heart at any stage and give them a week (or less) to move.

    Even if they do manage to get a mortgage in short order there is no telling how long it will take to close the sale or even if the first (few) houses they go sale agreed on will even pan out.


  • #9
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Madness to be in a licencee arangement with kids in the mix IMHO. The owner could have a change of heart at any stage and give them a week (or less) to move.

    Even if they do manage to get a mortgage in short order there is no telling how long it will take to close the sale or even if the first (few) houses they go sale agreed on will even pan out.

    I think you overestimate peoples bad behaviour. I don't they would go down that route but if they did they are unlikely to get so abruptly evicted because 1) they would be on good behaviour and 2) a landlord is less likely to evict when there is a personal relationship.


  • #10
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    robp wrote: »
    I think you overestimate peoples bad behaviour. I don't they would go down that route but if they did they are unlikely to get so abruptly evicted because 1) they would be on good behaviour and 2) a landlord is less likely to evict when there is a personal relationship.


    I think you overestimate people's patience in their own homes. It's a bad idea for a number of reasons anyway; they'll have absolutely no idea who they're sharing a house with.

    Regardless I can't see a RAR 'Landlord' taking a family anyway.


  • #11
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    €1500 is just off the wall. It isn’t worth anybody’s while getting involved in this for 5 or 6 grand total. They might get something if someone will personally vouch for them with someone the referee knows. Even then, they honestly just sound like trouble. They seem like they don’t know what they’re doing. On the one hand they claim to have the funds to purchase, on the other they can’t put up the fair cost of short term accommodation. The story makes no sense, even if they found someone benevolent. Around €3000/month, they might get somewhere.


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  • #12
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    €1500 is just off the wall. It isn’t worth anybody’s while getting involved in this for 5 or 6 grand total. On the one hand they claim to have the funds to purchase, on the other they can’t put up the fair cost of short term accommodation. The story makes no sense,

    There is equity in the apartment that needs to be sold. I guess they could sell that first, but it would make no sense if they have to wait a year in Ireland to buy. I don't know how much savings they have, but they're obviously looking to do this as cost efficiently as possible, as anyone would.
    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Around €3000/month, they might get somewhere.

    €3000/mo is an astonishing amount of money to rent a 2 bed apartment.


  • #13
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I suppose what I was hoping for was that their short term need would be worth something to a landlord that doesn't want to get tied up with a 4 year part 4 tenancy, but I guess the way the rent restrictions and tenancy law is set up doesn't provide for this.

    Even if it was possible to get a 1 year non renewable lease (which goes against part 4) the landlord wouldn't accept a discount because that would restrict the rent for any subsequent tenancies under RPZ.


  • #14
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    I think you misunderstand the part 4 tenancy. The tenant can give notice, the landlord can't.

    There is really nothing unusual about the tenancy your friend is seeking. You're massively over complicating it.


  • #15
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    I think you misunderstand the part 4 tenancy. The tenant can give notice, the landlord can't.
    No, I think I understand that part. It means that landlords who don't want to commit themselves to 4 years for whatever reason (that they would attach a value to) can't let the tenancy go over six months. So I would have thought there would be a market for six month lettings that wasn't more expensive.
    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    There is really nothing unusual about the tenancy your friend is seeking.
    They are seeking short term accommodation, that is the desire. As pointed out by various people, moving to Ireland and buying with a mortgage within 3-6 months is not practical for various reasons, but that is what they would like to do. The apartment they are selling will go within weeks at which point they'll have the cash but not enough to buy outright, they'd just rather not blow a large chunk of this on rent.
    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    You're massively over complicating it.
    Possibly, that is my superhero skill.


  • #16
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Lumen wrote: »
    There is equity in the apartment that needs to be sold. I guess they could sell that first, but it would make no sense if they have to wait a year in Ireland to buy. I don't know how much savings they have, but they're obviously looking to do this as cost efficiently as possible, as anyone would.



    €3000/mo is an astonishing amount of money to rent a 2 bed apartment.

    Not for short term really. it is a lot of hassle and as a result it is a premium priced product. The costs are a lot higher for the landlord because of frequent changes of tenant. A family will put a lot of wear on the apartment. You could easily spend 1500 on a 1-bed long-term in many of the areas we are talking about.

    It is great that they are trying to be efficient as possible but a prospective landlord just doesn’t care. He is trying to pay his own mortgage, not theirs. No matter what way you couch it he is not going to give a premium service at a discount price.

    As someone says, these people have kids. They need a place with a proper professional landlord who won’t kick them out on a whim or because they have a better offer come St Patrick’s Day.

    There is stuff available short term for less than €3000 when I look on daft et al. If they see something they can live in for less than 2500 and the landlord will rent it to them, it is good value.

    If they can get something through their new workplace (someone moving abroad for example) maybe that could work. But it depends on someone vouching for them.

    The other possibility would be to settle in for a 12 months lease and see how things work out. Even this will be tough on their budget and with their situation. Landlords may reasonably feel that a two-bed is not really suitable for them.


  • #17
    Xterminator
    Registered Users Posts: 4,716 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    Hi Op

    south dublin is the area highlighted as having the highest rent in ireland.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1112/1010273-rents-nationwide/

    https://www.daft.ie/report/2018-Q3-rentalprice-daftreport.pdf

    now if your friend is happy to pay the going rate, they will be fine, but that's more than they budgeted. So consider going premium, or changing target area. as mentioned if you look at bus routes you can find somewhere with a reasonable commute.


  • #18
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Xterminator wrote: »
    Hi Op

    south dublin is the area highlighted as having the highest rent in ireland.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1112/1010273-rents-nationwide/

    https://www.daft.ie/report/2018-Q3-rentalprice-daftreport.pdf

    now if your friend is happy to pay the going rate, they will be fine, but that's more than they budgeted. So consider going premium, or changing target area. as mentioned if you look at bus routes you can find somewhere with a reasonable commute.

    Thanks. I see that apartments still command a premium relative to their size.

    e.g. Dublin 6W

    €1,567 1 bed apartment
    €1,807 2 bed house
    €2,114 3 bed house
    €2,327 4 bed house
    €2,558 5 bed house

    Not quite sure why there's no 2 or 3 bed apartments in those categories. Are they counted as houses?

    If it was me I'd be inclined to go for something larger and suck up the cost, but that's easy for me to say cos it's not my money!


  • #19
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Agree that they will have to look further away from D6 to secure a short term tenancy like this without breaking their budget.

    They will also have to do a lot of leg work because something like this is not going to be advertised on the market. One potential option is to contact Airbnb hosts who have full apartments/houses to let. Given it is winter now you may well find some of these people would give a six month lease before the tourist season starts again next year. Also new Airbnb rules are soon here so it could actually make sense for Airbnb landlords to rent for 6 months to one person and then the following six months to tourists so they stay in compliance with the new rules.


  • #20
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Lumen wrote: »
    they're on a budget, like <1500/mo, and need a 2 bed. Ideally somewhere near the Clonskeagh-Terenure bus routes (17?).

    the Crumlin-Rialto end of that bus route is going to be cheaper than anything in 6w. Still not cheap though, and cheaper for a reason.

    something like this maybe
    https://www.rent.ie/houses-to-let/Downpatrick-Road-Crumlin-Dublin-12-South-Dublin-City/1888850/


  • #21
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Agree that they will have to look further away from D6 to secure a short term tenancy like this without breaking their budget.

    They will also have to do a lot of leg work because something like this is not going to be advertised on the market. One potential option is to contact Airbnb hosts who have full apartments/houses to let. Given it is winter now you may well find some of these people would give a six month lease before the tourist season starts again next year. Also new Airbnb rules are soon here so it could actually make sense for Airbnb landlords to rent for 6 months to one person and then the following six months to tourists so they stay in compliance with the new rules.


    TBH most airbnb LL's will be gone in Dublin come June 2019, there's zero chance of planning permission. I'm sure though that people would be delighted to, and offer a discount too a longer term tenant but I still think the OP's friend will be easily able to see out a 12 month lease, if the LL even insists on one. They can always delay closing if they need to.


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  • #22
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    TBH most airbnb LL's will be gone in Dublin come June 2019, there's zero chance of planning permission. I'm sure though that people would be delighted to, and offer a discount too a longer term tenant but I still think the OP's friend will be easily able to see out a 12 month lease, if the LL even insists on one. They can always delay closing if they need to.

    Yeah I agree with this. Buying property from scratch within six months is ambitious to say the least. OPs friends would be better off with a 12 month lease and if they have to move out early they can ask for permission to sublet. If the LL refuses a sublet then the 12 month lease can be terminated with the caveat that they need to make sure any lease permits this


  • #23
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Yeah I agree with this. Buying property from scratch within six months is ambitious to say the least. OPs friends would be better off with a 12 month lease and if they have to move out early they can ask for permission to sublet. If the LL refuses a sublet then the 12 month lease can be terminated with the caveat that they need to make sure any lease permits this


    If the LL refuses assignment they're free and clear IIRC. I'm not sure a lease can remove that right given under the RTA 2004, but I'm oipen to correction by the more legally minded denizens of this forum!


  • #24
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    RayCun wrote: »
    the Crumlin-Rialto end of that bus route is going to be cheaper than anything in 6w. Still not cheap though, and cheaper for a reason.

    something like this maybe
    https://www.rent.ie/houses-to-let/Downpatrick-Road-Crumlin-Dublin-12-South-Dublin-City/1888850/

    They've worked extensively in literal war zones so I think Crumlin might be manageable. :pac:


  • #25
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Lumen wrote: »
    They've worked extensively in literal war zones so I think Crumlin might be manageable. :pac:

    they probably haven't experienced anything like the 17 on a wet winter's morning though, you'll be asked for bike recommendations too soon enough :)


  • #26
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If the LL refuses assignment they're free and clear IIRC. I'm not sure a lease can remove that right given under the RTA 2004, but I'm oipen to correction by the more legally minded denizens of this forum!

    Yeah Im unsure myself whether or not a lease can drop the right for the tenant to be able to assign the lease to someone else. But if the lease does contain the clause and the OPs friends needed to move out after 9 months they could do so without penalty (rent or deposit) if the LL refused to let them assign it to someone else.

    Lumen I was just thinking that another consideration of your friends must be the kids and schools. Have they looked into that yet? I ask because schools in the D6/D6w are in high demand and I think it is very difficult to get into them. Also do they intend to buy in the D6/6w area after renting there for a while?


  • #27
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If the LL refuses assignment they're free and clear IIRC. I'm not sure a lease can remove that right given under the RTA 2004, but I'm oipen to correction by the more legally minded denizens of this forum!

    Yeah Im unsure myself whether or not a lease can drop the right for the tenant to be able to assign the lease to someone else. But if the lease does contain the clause and the OPs friends needed to move out after 9 months they could do so without penalty (rent or deposit) if the LL refused to let them assign it to someone else.

    Lumen I was just thinking that another consideration of your friends must be the kids and schools. Have they looked into that yet? I ask because schools in the D6/D6w are in high demand and I think it is very difficult to get into them. Also do they intend to buy in the D6/6w area after renting there for a while?

    Contracts cannot change legislation unless a term existed within the legislation to allow it.

    Op you could get your friend to contact the EA's for the areas, sometimes during a house sale, a temporary tenant for a short period is useful.


  • #28
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Are your friends actually aware of the housing situation in Ireland at the moment?
    I know when I moved over with my Irish partner and my son that I fully underestimated how bad it is, plus I had no idea that Ireland is very conservative with their views on housing.
    If they want to buy do they know how much something suitable for a family costs and how bad bad areas can be?

    I don't wanna be condescending, I know that I would've liked to know all of that prior to moving.

    Anyway, they need to get their paperwork together pronto, they need references, bank statements and employer references, without that they will have it difficult finding somewhere, especially with children. The landlords still have a big pool of people to pick from and they want to have everything in order.
    They should definitely try Airbnb and ask around, I really hope for them to get sorted.
    They might also consider moving a bit further out for renting, since 1500 is really a tiny budget to find something suitable for a family and the money would take them further.

    I wish them all the best.


  • #29
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    LirW wrote: »
    Are your friends actually aware of the housing situation in Ireland at the moment?
    I know when I moved over with my Irish partner and my son that I fully underestimated how bad it is, plus I had no idea that Ireland is very conservative with their views on housing.
    If they want to buy do they know how much something suitable for a family costs and how bad bad areas can be?
    I think a lot depends on expectations. If you want a house in South Dublin and aren't earning mega money it's crap, and small apartments seems spectacularly bad value to rent.

    But...66sqm 2 bed in Dundrum for €350k? Seems OK. What's that on an 80% 20 year mortgage, €1500/mo? Would require 80k/year combined salary with no exemptions. €5200 net income, so that's 29% of net income.

    The worst thing about that is the 66sqm bit.

    (sorry, I don't want to drag this off topic too much)


  • #30
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I was just thinking that another consideration of your friends must be the kids and schools. Have they looked into that yet? I ask because schools in the D6/D6w are in high demand and I think it is very difficult to get into them. Also do they intend to buy in the D6/6w area after renting there for a while?
    School is sorted. That's why the D14-D6 location is critical.


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  • #31
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Lumen wrote: »
    I think a lot depends on expectations. If you want a house in South Dublin and aren't earning mega money it's crap, and small apartments seems spectacularly bad value to rent.

    But...66sqm 2 bed in Dundrum for €350k? Seems OK. What's that on an 80% 20 year mortgage, €1500/mo? Would require 80k/year combined salary with no exemptions. €5200 net income, so that's 29% of net income.

    The worst thing about that is the 66sqm bit.

    (sorry, I don't want to drag this off topic too much)

    It entirely depends on its layout, 66 can be fine, it can also be tiny. When making such a big financial commitment for the next decades I'm not sure if I'd move into a 2bed with two children.
    I met a lady from Goatstown, she's German and had her son in that private German school there, the family lived in a tiny two bedroom apartment in a pretty neat complex but the space was non-existent. And rent was higher than 1500. They said they'd love to buy but can't afford it in the area since it's so expensive, so they stay put and the father continued doing his work in the kids bedroom where the desk is. (I work in my son's bedroom too, but we have a semi-converted attic that needs finishing and then it's good to go)

    I wouldn't want to be tied up in a mortgage for a suboptimal space for a family.
    Anyway, was thinking how about they look a bit further south, like the Bray or Carrickmines area? The more they expand the area they're looking in, the better and it's gonna be easier finding something suitable. They might consider up their budget too, 1500 is going to be very very tough in these areas.

    Personally I'd suggest looking on the north side too and put the kids in a local school there, plenty of good schools on the north side too.
    They have really high requirements for the money they're prepared to spend and I find it a bit unrealistic to be honest, since they're looking in the most expensive area in the country.


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