Citóg

wirelessdude01 · 13-08-2020 7:00pm

arctictree wrote: »

To be honest, the Father doesn't have a clue. He doesnt understand that most good hurlers are like that because they practice every day doing the same thing 100 times over. It's not like swimming or maybe Tennis where you have your coaching sessions and that's it. I can see in my own group, lads coming back week after week with no improvement and they are the lads that aren't practising or taking instruction. Same lads then go off in a huff when they aren't picked for games. It's all about attitude.

My group of U15/16 footballers are the same. The improvement over the last year of a good group of them is amazing. These are the same lads who work hard at school and listen. No swats but realise that you get out what you put in. We gave all of them individual bits of their skill sets to work on over lockdown. Those that did are flying in games since we started back. One former 'superstar' is at risk of getting dropped as he didn't work like some of the others. He and his dad probably think he isn't at risk of the drop. Parents sometimes have a lot to answer for.

joebloggs32 · 14-08-2020 1:30pm

I find the natural instinct for most kids is to try and hold the hurl in the weeker hand when starting leaving their strong hand free to catch or hold the ball/bean bag.

Its really important to get the hurl in the dominant hand on top. If you get them when they start to use the correct grip they won't be long getting use to it. Id keep reminding them if they don't change. If its left to age 11 or 12 its probably too late and their chances of progressing to the top are reduced.

Last year I got wristbands for the u7s and put them.on their dominant hand. When we practiced catching bean bags they could not catch with the hand with the wristbands. They had to use that to grip the hurl and catch with the weak hand. It worked well for nearly all bar 1 lad who's dad was telling his lad he was fine to play cack handed. The cack handed player is ahead of most of his peers now so his dad thinks he's right, but having coached players from u7 to senior, A colleges and co minor I know its more than likely going to hold him back eventually.
I also got my players to draw a happy face on the hurl and when they were rising with the toe out they could see the happy face on the bas. If they could not see the happy face then that meant they were pointing the hurl the wrong way.

gammygils · 14-08-2020 1:41pm

I have my right hand on top and I hurl better off my left same as OP. I consider myself a ciotog I kick with my left

Swamp_Cat · 19-08-2020 11:11am

arctictree wrote: »

To be honest, the Father doesn't have a clue. He doesnt understand that most good hurlers are like that because they practice every day doing the same thing 100 times over. It's not like swimming or maybe Tennis where you have your coaching sessions and that's it. I can see in my own group, lads coming back week after week with no improvement and they are the lads that aren't practising or taking instruction. Same lads then go off in a huff when they aren't picked for games. It's all about attitude.

And practice is downright fun in hurling. I use wall drills for my regular excercise. Getting kids to find it fun is the trick. but no amount of forcing will make someone want to. some encouragement for the shy ones & one on one for those embarrassed by not being at the same level.
It sounds like that dad who's son has the golf swing is setting his son up for a rude awakening & failure. There's nothing wrong with kids having fun & there's nothing worse than coaches & parents who go too far the opposite way either. I've been there. Hopefully the kid will find something he enjoys enough that he'll have to be told to stop practicing. but that's pretty rare.

Swamp_Cat · 19-08-2020 11:30am

So on that amazing team there were often 4 starters who didn't use the correct or traditional grip? Jackie, JJ, E. Larkin & Taggy. Over 25% seems quite high, especially in a county with no lack of hurling knowledge.

Martin567 · 19-08-2020 1:18pm

Swamp_Cat wrote: »

So on that amazing team there were often 4 starters who didn't use the correct or traditional grip? Jackie, JJ, E. Larkin & Taggy. Over 25% seems quite high, especially in a county with no lack of hurling knowledge.

That's not correct, surely?

JJ Delaney & Eoin Larkin were left handed and held the hurl with left hand on top. TJ Reid is the same.

I can't remember how Jackie held it.

Aidan Fogarty I remember as being unorthodox, the same as Walter Walsh. They both catch the ball with their dominant hand and then have to switch their grip in order to strike.

bamayang · 20-08-2020 10:26am

Talking about two different things.
Larkin, Jackie and JJ were all natural hurlers with perfect grip. They all favoured striking off what most people would consider their 'weak' side.

Taggy Fogarty has a 'cack' hand grip, where he is right handed, solos with the right, but when he strikes, he slides his left hand up over his right to be on top. It is then in the style of a baseball or golf swing.

I know a few lads who hurl like this and i find they have a great 'strong' side, but their 'weak' side is very poor as they have no power on that side. I think the hurling grip (strong hand on top) gives a more even distribution to both sides. While the golf/baseball/Lacrosse grip is suited to be only ever swinging on your dominant side.

joebloggs32 · 20-08-2020 10:58am

Swamp_Cat wrote: »

So on that amazing team there were often 4 starters who didn't use the correct or traditional grip? Jackie, JJ, E. Larkin & Taggy. Over 25% seems quite high, especially in a county with no lack of hurling knowledge.

I would be very surprised if Eoin Larkin is not left handed, i.e. he had his dominant hand on top.
I reckon JJ probably was the same.

Taggy was definitely cack handed with his striking.

I cant recall how Jackie struck the ball as he sent most of his time just wrestling with his man

Uncle Pierre · 20-08-2020 11:02am

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I cant recall how Jackie struck the ball as he sent most of his time just wrestling with his man

:D:D

Blowheads · 22-08-2020 6:31pm

sorry to pull ye all into it again, was just outside with the hurl and my young fella whose a traditional hurl holder.
He has right hand on top- picks ball with toe pointing right and continues the pick with toe right as he raises the hurl up to his right shoulder to swing -> toe follows the pick to upswing movement

I then, Right hand on top, toe pointing left, as I pick the ball and raise the hurl to my left shoulder to strike -> toe follows the pick to upswing movement (this is the way my daughter is holding/picking/swinging)

Is this correct now, with what we've all discovered above? or should I toe out right still and switch then once I raise the hurl
complicated stuff...

bamayang · 22-08-2020 8:35pm

Blowheads wrote: »

sorry to pull ye all into it again, was just outside with the hurl and my young fella whose a traditional hurl holder.
He has right hand on top- picks ball with toe pointing right and continues the pick with toe right as he raises the hurl up to his right shoulder to swing -> toe follows the pick to upswing movement

I then, Right hand on top, toe pointing left, as I pick the ball and raise the hurl to my left shoulder to strike -> toe follows the pick to upswing movement (this is the way my daughter is holding/picking/swinging)

Is this correct now, with what we've all discovered above? or should I toe out right still and switch then once I raise the hurl
complicated stuff...

No, if your right hand is on top, you should be pointing toe out to right. It looks wicked awkward to do the other way.

The real reason though: you should really jab lift the ball over the toe of the bas. So if you point the toe to the left, to get an oncoming ball to come up onto the hurl over the toe, your going to have your right hand almost in across on your left hip/thigh, which is really awkward to do.

Blowheads · 22-08-2020 8:45pm

bamayang wrote: »

No, if your right hand is on top, you should be pointing toe out to right. It looks wicked awkward to do the other way.

The real reason though: you should really jab lift the ball over the toe of the bas. So if you point the toe to the left, to get an oncoming ball to come up onto the hurl over the toe, your going to have your right hand almost in across on your left hip/thigh, which is really awkward to do.

I don't have right hand anywhere near left hip, pickup is normal just toe pointing left, its the same as my son with the toe following the up swing..
Does anyone here right hand on top swing over left shoulder?

arctictree · 22-08-2020 8:54pm

I think you are talking about the back hand swing. In this case, toe starts pointing out and the hurl is swung to the left shoulder with toe now pointing towards you. Ball is thrown under the hurl and then struck. Hard to explain it, easier to demonstrate.

Blowheads · 22-08-2020 9:02pm

arctictree wrote: »

I think you are talking about the back hand swing. In this case, toe starts pointing out and the hurl is swung to the left shoulder with toe now pointing towards you. Ball is thrown under the hurl and then struck. Hard to explain it, easier to demonstrate.

I think we're getting somewhere now.. Though I throw the ball up up with left before the hurl comes back so not underneath the hurl exactly.. So I'm not fully cracked or cracked..

arctictree · 22-08-2020 10:23pm

Blowheads wrote: »

I think we're getting somewhere now.. Though I throw the ball up up with left before the hurl comes back so not underneath the hurl exactly.. So I'm not fully cracked or cracked..

Its much faster/safer to only release the ball when the hurl is at the limit of the back swing. Otherwise it's much easier for your opponent to knock the ball away.

joebloggs32 · 22-08-2020 11:32pm

Lots of people who hold the hurl in tbe right hand will.swing it off their "left side" or back hand in tennis terms. How you lift the ball should still be the same though as those who strike on their "right" or forehand side in tennis terms. The toe of the hurl should still face out or to the. right.
By facing the toe in you ard more likely to stub it in the ground as the way the hurl is crafted it favours being faced out..

Swamp_Cat · 31-08-2020 8:11pm

bamayang wrote: »

Talking about two different things.
Larkin, Jackie and JJ were all natural hurlers with perfect grip. They all favoured striking off what most people would consider their 'weak' side.

Taggy Fogarty has a 'cack' hand grip, where he is right handed, solos with the right, but when he strikes, he slides his left hand up over his right to be on top. It is then in the style of a baseball or golf swing.

I know a few lads who hurl like this and i find they have a great 'strong' side, but their 'weak' side is very poor as they have no power on that side. I think the hurling grip (strong hand on top) gives a more even distribution to both sides. While the golf/baseball/Lacrosse grip is suited to be only ever swinging on your dominant side.

Thx for the clarification. I never considered the correct grip but more comfortable striking off what would be the weak side.
Just glad I never gave up trying to get rid of my American habit of weak hand on top.
I'm poor on my weak side when driving the ball long or taking a free but for some reason when close in on goal generate much more power off my weak side.
Bit more complex an issue than I ever thought. great thread.
Being in the states, when I am introducing a young(14 & under) I have them bring their baseball gloves. It helps them to get the idea of catching w/the weak hand to sink in. Don't know why but before I started that, the majority would always use their dominant hand. It's like pulling teeth w/some. W/the youngest ones, I try to get them right but focus more on them just enjoying the game, learning to control the sliotar(whatever that means to 9-10yo's), etc. As our standard is so low here it's not worth chasing away anyone. especially the little ones.

I've found a few of P. Butler's videos invaluable. Both those aimed @ coaches(so many who needed correcting themselves) as well as the vids geared more towards the player. Martin F. has some great ones as well.

Citóg

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