Schools opening for children with special needs

fits · 19-01-2021 10:30am #1

Thought it might be good to have some discussion on this.

Our child is in preschool -50% mainstream and 50% special preschool. He’s quite an easygoing chap for the most part so it’s ok to have him at home. But he has stopped sleeping this lockdown. He’s up at 4 am every morning. Thankfully I’m not working this month so we can manage just about but I really really feel for families of children who can be quite challenging and need the structure in their lives.

Really hope something can be done for those who want it.

fits · 19-01-2021 2:12pm

I have to say these last few weeks parenting are as challenging as we have had in a while. Really really exhausting.

byhookorbycrook · 20-01-2021 1:50am

Tonight has been particularly sad . Parents promised things that couldn’t possibly be delivered without a plan . Children who do badly need some semblance of normality . I really hope Norma Foley and Josepha Madigan drop the “ schools are safe “ mantra and actually do something to make them safer .

One thing that has been exposed to the wider public is the total lack of support parents of children with additional needs can draw on outside of schools . EPSEN has never been enacted . SLT/OT etc. not seeing children for years on end and the AON being trampled on by the very departments tasked with its implementation.

Fits, I’m so sorry to read of your struggles, they must be mirrored county wide . I hope the support you need can be sorted quickly and properly.

Gatling · 20-01-2021 2:06am

What I don't get in all of this ,it was decided to keep schools closed for safety reasons ,I've a child with needs and compromised respiratory system ,very prone to chest infections and psumonia's so she's at high risk ,now all kids should be treated equally and have equal access which for most part they do ,so why is it being pushed to open for kids in asd units ,but not everyone else's kids ,not every child who has a sna is going back just the ones in asd units and special schools ,it makes no sense whatsoever SLT ,OT ,PT can't operate From settings the so called lobby groups are all working from home yet they are demanding teachers and SNA are being risked and Been demanded that they return to work ,sorry that wrong we've decided to keep our child away and keep her at home ,and put up with the screaming hitting,, banging and throwing things ,and yes we don't get a break nobody can or will take her ,
It's not safe for any kids or teachers at this time we have to get on with it , stop telling kids they are going back to today tomorrow or the next day because you know its not happening ,

Keep them all safe or keep none of them safe

fits · 20-01-2021 6:22am

Gatling wrote: »

What I don't get in all of this ,it was decided to keep schools closed for safety reasons

You see I don’t agree with this. Schools were closed to reduce people’s movements and contacts - not because they are unsafe. I’m disappointed the unions won’t accept the advice of NPHET.

I wonder if some type of volunteer approach would work? Some children are very vulnerable to covid and parents might choose to keep them home. Some teachers and sna also vulnerable.

I really am worried about the mental health of some parents and their families. Some children could very well end up being taken into care after all this.

We are the only country in Europe as far as I know not offering education to children with special needs at this time. That’s something to be ashamed of.

fits · 20-01-2021 7:21am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Fits, I’m so sorry to read of your struggles, they must be mirrored county wide . I hope the support you need can be sorted quickly and properly.

Thanks. I don’t think our situation is in anyway comparable to families of children with complex needs and we wouldn’t be looking for any extra supports at moment. I was just exhausted yesterday after three 4 am starts in a row. Got to sleep in until 5 am this morning with a solid night until then so today will be better.

paddyirish23 · 20-01-2021 8:28am

I feel your pain in this, my son and daughter have special needs. Son in primary daughter not of age yet. Since March has been a nightmare and beyond stressful. His regression is heartbreaking.
What I don't get is how ireland is the only country in the EU that have shut all schools.
How they every other country keep most of the SE schools open but not us?
I get some parents don't want to send their kids back in but some of can't keep this up while working. The uncertainty is draining.
We started social stories this week again in the hope that he'll be going back to school but now will have to change again.
What people that don't have kids in this situation don't understand is routine is everything. It's the difference between a good day and a very bad day. Reading last night Norma told unions that health experts tried to get it across that it's safe but we're having none of it. If this is the case then I now have a real issue with teachers and their unions.
Last point in a long post (sorry) I'm amazed and actually shocked that some teachers of SD kids don't understand or don't seem to care what affect all this is having on kids, can't keep blaming their unions and government for everything. Online learning is out for us.
Time for PUP payment if unions keep refusing.

Gatling · 20-01-2021 7:51pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

I'm amazed and actually shocked that some teachers of SD kids don't understand or don't seem to care what affect all this is having on kids, can't keep blaming their unions and government for everything. Online learning is out for us.
Time for PUP payment if unions keep refusing.

But I believe they do , but they don't believe it's safe for them and their families ,the government screwed everyone on this especially Foley , we were told there is no covid in schools , then it was 246 cases in schools then it was 40% of schools have had covid cases , then it was 70 % of all schools have had zero contact with the HSE about covid cases .

246 cases turned into several thousand and then 70% of schools had no contact with public health due to covid now something is very wrong there ,
Teachers aren't being told neither are SNAs ,
Suggestions were made SNAs could be sent to people's homes to work with children ,not teachers apparently while one or two parents were there ,so why would they expect an SNA would be sent to them ,
Another thing I noticed was first it was 6000 children with needs would be brought back , yesterday that figure was up to 24,000+ so someone is moving goal posts ,I'd imagine next it would be anyone on social welfare would be able so send there kids back ,
Do you honestly want unqualified volunteers with no experience of working with kids with needs looking after your child ,
you might as well hire a child minder at that rate it's bad enough we can't get enough special needs teachers and SNAs never mind random Joe's with no experience like that's actually going to do any good ,

There was no plan A,B,C,D in place for anything just fling open the school doors and ignore any concerns from staff and parents and keep telling us it's all safe there is no covid in schools ,

now this is what were left with very annoyed and frustrated parents who have been led to believe Schools were opening again despite no actual guarantee it was happening,

To say I'm frustrated is a major understatement but I'm also a realistic to understand this was never going to happen

Murple · 23-01-2021 2:16pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

I feel your pain in this, my son and daughter have special needs. Son in primary daughter not of age yet. Since March has been a nightmare and beyond stressful. His regression is heartbreaking.
What I don't get is how ireland is the only country in the EU that have shut all schools.
How they every other country keep most of the SE schools open but not us?
I get some parents don't want to send their kids back in but some of can't keep this up while working. The uncertainty is draining.
We started social stories this week again in the hope that he'll be going back to school but now will have to change again.
What people that don't have kids in this situation don't understand is routine is everything. It's the difference between a good day and a very bad day. Reading last night Norma told unions that health experts tried to get it across that it's safe but we're having none of it. If this is the case then I now have a real issue with teachers and their unions.
Last point in a long post (sorry) I'm amazed and actually shocked that some teachers of SD kids don't understand or don't seem to care what affect all this is having on kids, can't keep blaming their unions and government for everything. Online learning is out for us.
Time for PUP payment if unions keep refusing.

You said that ‘since March has been a nightmare and beyond stressful. His regression has been heartbreaking’- can I ask was there an improvement from September to December when the school was open? Did your child have access to something like July provision in the summer? How would you manage during a normal summer break? Are there additional services, camps, respite etc available? These are genuine questions as I feel what’s happening here is the consequence of a much deeper issue and that is that the authorities think ‘school place, box ticked’ when it comes to children with additional needs.

With regard to Norma and the health experts, the unions asked for up to date data and were given data from last term when number were much, much lower and when community transmission was much lower. There was no data given about cases in children in January...and for good reason. It wouldn’t have fit with the narrative they were trying to portray. The health experts said as long as we followed public health advice, schools were safe. Public health advice being cough etiquette, hand washing and social distancing- these are particularly difficult in special needs settings.
Every special needs school in the north in term 1 had cases of Covid. A number that opened fully after Christmas have now switched to blended learning. Many crèches here have been closed due to Covid outbreaks. I read a poster on this forum describing their child getting Covid in crèche and bringing it home and now the family have it. Several staff and children in the crèche were affected also. These events don’t fit with the mantra ‘schools are safe’. I’m not even sure what ‘schools are safe’ even means anymore. Any place where people mix is a risk at the moment.
I also think it is unfair to say that teachers of children with SN don’t understand or don’t care about the effect this is having on the children. Do you think that teachers and SNA should disregard their concerns about themselves and their own families? I have huge sympathy for the pupils I teach who are finding it hard but my primary concerns are around the 2 people I live with, both high risk, one who would be unlikely to survive Covid. I also worry about myself getting Covid as it would leave me unable to share in the care for one of those people and that being left entirely on the shoulders of someone else.
I genuinely hope something can be agreed on that will provide the families concerned with some relief. I don’t believe either minister involved was acting out of concern for the people involved but rather out of a desire for political kudos. If they had been more measured in their approach and waited for the right time, I think it could have gone very smoothly. But trying to force the issue when numbers were very high, community transmission is out of control, testing was pushed to its limits and close contacts weren’t being tested was not right time or the safe time to mobilise about 40,000 children from 4-18 as well as teachers, SNA, ancillary staff, bus drivers etc.

paddyirish23 · 23-01-2021 2:33pm

Murple wrote: »

You said that ‘since March has been a nightmare and beyond stressful. His regression has been heartbreaking’- can I ask was there an improvement from September to December when the school was open? Did your child have access to something like July provision in the summer? How would you manage during a normal summer break? Are there additional services, camps, respite etc available? These are genuine questions as I feel what’s happening here is the consequence of a much deeper issue and that is that the authorities think ‘school place, box ticked’ when it comes to children with additional needs.

With regard to Norma and the health experts, the unions asked for up to date data and were given data from last term when number were much, much lower and when community transmission was much lower. There was no data given about cases in children in January...and for good reason. It wouldn’t have fit with the narrative they were trying to portray. The health experts said as long as we followed public health advice, schools were safe. Public health advice being cough etiquette, hand washing and social distancing- these are particularly difficult in special needs settings.
Every special needs school in the north in term 1 had cases of Covid. A number that opened fully after Christmas have now switched to blended learning. Many crèches here have been closed due to Covid outbreaks. I read a poster on this forum describing their child getting Covid in crèche and bringing it home and now the family have it. Several staff and children in the crèche were affected also. These events don’t fit with the mantra ‘schools are safe’. I’m not even sure what ‘schools are safe’ even means anymore. Any place where people mix is a risk at the moment.
I also think it is unfair to say that teachers of children with SN don’t understand or don’t care about the effect this is having on the children. Do you think that teachers and SNA should disregard their concerns about themselves and their own families? I have huge sympathy for the pupils I teach who are finding it hard but my primary concerns are around the 2 people I live with, both high risk, one who would be unlikely to survive Covid. I also worry about myself getting Covid as it would leave me unable to share in the care for one of those people and that being left entirely on the shoulders of someone else.
I genuinely hope something can be agreed on that will provide the families concerned with some relief. I don’t believe either minister involved was acting out of concern for the people involved but rather out of a desire for political kudos. If they had been more measured in their approach and waited for the right time, I think it could have gone very smoothly. But trying to force the issue when numbers were very high, community transmission is out of control, testing was pushed to its limits and close contacts weren’t being tested was not right time or the safe time to mobilise about 40,000 children from 4-18 as well as teachers, SNA, ancillary staff, bus drivers etc.

When you ask was there improvement when he went back to school in September, you have no idea how far he regressed. Going back to school was another stress due to it not being part of his routine since March.
Summer holidays are pre planned in so far as time is booked off work to manage at home.
Supports were pretty much zero. Being on waiting list after waiting list for yrs and now early intervention teams are impossible to get to as they are all closed so don't get me started on supports.
I get that teachers and SNAs might not want to go back to protect loved ones but the rest of us have to work go to work.
They either want to be classed as essential workers or not. If they are then back to school they should go.
Other countries have a much worse rate of infection and yet they have schools open.

Murple · 23-01-2021 4:38pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

When you ask was there improvement when he went back to school in September, you have no idea how far he regressed. Going back to school was another stress due to it not being part of his routine since March.
Summer holidays are pre planned in so far as time is booked off work to manage at home.
Supports were pretty much zero. Being on waiting list after waiting list for yrs and now early intervention teams are impossible to get to as they are all closed so don't get me started on supports.
I get that teachers and SNAs might not want to go back to protect loved ones but the rest of us have to work go to work.
They either want to be classed as essential workers or not. If they are then back to school they should go.
Other countries have a much worse rate of infection and yet they have schools open.

We actually had the worst rate of infection in the world when these decisions were being made in January.
Also, many workers are being given the option to work from home, not just teachers so saying ‘the rest of us’ as if it’s only teachers and SNA who aren’t on site for work isn’t correct.
Teachers/SNA also didn’t ‘want’ to be classed as essential workers. The government termed school staff ‘essential workers’ but put us 11th on the priority list for vaccinations with ‘key workers’ being at number 6 and people working/living in crowded environments being 7 I believe.

I do think the government needs to look at a range of supports for families like yours- paid parental leave at a time like this might help some families, home tuition would help others, respite services and day centres for school holiday times would help others. Improved access to and provision of therapies might help to tackle the level of regression seen. The fight for supports is a scandal. I really don’t believe it is as simple as open schools. I don’t believe any parent wants schools to open and within a week have it shut again or have children having to restrict their movements and I do think that is the most likely outcome if schools were to open now even at the level proposed.

shesty · 25-01-2021 12:08pm

Murple, I'll be honest.....While I completely agree that packages of support are needed for special needs kids, and that the Dept have made an absolute and complete shambles of this whole thing for both parents and teachers ....once numbers go to the low hundreds somewhere, I want my kids school open and the kids back in there. And most parents of my acquaintance feel the same. Truth be told, we would be happy for them to be back before that, but it obviously won't happen.

The level of damage that being stuck at home is doing, we see it in front of our eyes every single day. I don't have special needs kids, but I can see how much my own kids are struggling with this. I know from my friends how much their kids and themselves are struggling with this. Online education is not a substitution for a classroom. I am an engineer, I am not a teacher and I never will be. Our kids are all at the junior end of primary school, and while my 6 year old loves the daily zoom call with the teacher, the reality is that you can see on her face that she is fed up with looking at a screen all the time to see everybody. It is miserable. I am fed up with Zoom, so I can only imagine how she feels.

I am struggling to parent lately. It has been over a month now since they were last in school. I have an extremely energetic 6 year old, who thrives on social interaction and on learning new things - she needs the stimulation of the school environment - and I can see from her behaviour which is all over the place despite my best efforts - how much this is hurting her. Never mind my 4 year old who desperately misses her world at her preschool.

I wanted to cry when I saw the headlines yesterday evening that schools won't be back before Easter. How have they made such a complete &&&& of this. I cannot even begin to imagine how special needs parents feel right now - I don't know how they are surviving. My sympathy does lie with teachers, but to be honest, this row should have happened somewhere in the 5 months the Dept had to plan between last April and September. If it had happened, and a proper plan was in place, those special needs kids could be safely in school right now, and there might be hope for the rest of us that we might get back in a timely manner. Instead it is too little, too late as usual.

It is abysmal and pretending that the availability of online tuition somehow makes it ok is a joke.

byhookorbycrook · 27-01-2021 10:18pm

Since last March,schools have been beseeching the DES to come up with a Plan B. Nothing beyond the "fingers in the ears, lah, lah, lah" schools are safe" mantra was the response. I work in SET and see how parents struggled day to day.But it's nt the fault of schools.

indolent · 29-01-2021 10:35pm

Is it possible children will be in school before the midterm would you say ? Unbelievable the department didn't plan for this eventuality.

BonsaiKitten · 29-01-2021 11:51pm

indolent wrote: »

Is it possible children will be in school before the midterm would you say ? Unbelievable the department didn't plan for this eventuality.

Given that there's two weeks to go I think it's very unlikely - having them in for one week and then out again could be very disruptive for the children.

Gatling · 29-01-2021 11:54pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Given that there's two weeks to go I think it's very unlikely - having them in for one week and then out again could be very disruptive for the children.

Highly unlikely but with the current situation with the government and minister if could well happen ,
In my case I'd saying no I'll send her back after midterm and hope we get to get to June without any problems

BonsaiKitten · 29-01-2021 11:57pm

Gatling wrote: »

Highly unlikely but with the current situation with the government and minister if could well happen ,
In my case I'd saying no I'll send her back after midterm and hope we get to get to June without any problems

True but I reckon Norma and Josepha are under very close supervision in those meetings now! Micheal has learned his lesson about letting them out unsupervised. The Dept are a wildcard though.

Anyway I think many parents would be like you and not send them back for the sake of a week.

fits · 31-01-2021 8:02am

My boy’s preschool is reopening in a limited way for the children and families who need it most. I am relieved that some children are going back. They really need it. We are ok for now.

Wanderer78 · 31-01-2021 8:08am

fits wrote:

Really hope something can be done for those who want it.

Unfortunately some kids with special needs are truly climbing the walls, their needs are never truly met anyway, with or without covid, each family should have been assigned a team of specialists as soon as this kicked off, so here we are.....

shesty · 01-02-2021 11:32am

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

True but I reckon Norma and Josepha are under very close supervision in those meetings now! Micheal has learned his lesson about letting them out unsupervised. The Dept are a wildcard though.

Anyway I think many parents would be like you and not send them back for the sake of a week.

Very very true, they seem to have been told to say absolutely nothing. The silence speaks volumes.

However I would send mine back. At this point, with all they have missed in the last year, every week counts, and the midterm is only 2 days for our school.

Schools opening for children with special needs

Comments