Is Fly and bubble fishing, not allowed on most rivers? (Trout)

jb35a · 12-11-2019 10:18pm #1

Hi,

I'm hoping to get prepared to go back fishing after next March, I haven't been out fishing in the last eight to ten years! I grew up fishing for brown trout with a fly and bubble, found it to be the most relaxing thing in the world.

I often heard fly and bubble isn't really an above board method of fishing, is this true?
I'd be hoping to go fishing rivers in Kildare / Carlow.

ardinn · 12-11-2019 11:53pm

It depends on the water / club.

Im not 100% sure on the legalities (I must look into it tho as I should be) but I dont believe its an illegal method.

In my club, elderly men who can no longer climb down the banks to wade or cast a fly are allowed use bubble and fly - other than that its fly fishing only.

I will be raising the subject at the next agm in order to extend this to under 10's to help get them started. If your on a predominantly Salmon / seatrout river hoever, thats fly only. fishing with a spinning rod will attract a lot of attention from the powers that be.

boomdocker · 13-11-2019 12:09pm

This is an interesting one.
As far as I know, it's not illegal anywhere
But as the previous poster says clubs who control water can restrict or ban the use - same as above, our club does not allow the use of bubble and fly

Personally, I've always been against it - it was never allowed on our stretch and the main issue is that historically the poachers have used bubble and fly

But Ardinn raises a very interesting point - that it should be allowed in certain conditions - and his example of u10's is bang on - I have a young lad who has struggled to fly fish where we are - high banks etc... and the fly and bubble would definitely be a better way to start and get young fellas catching fish - then transition to fly rod when a bit bigger and more able

nthclare · 13-11-2019 12:23pm

I prefer the flyfod myself.
But I find it endearing meeting an old guy on the river with his 40 year old trout rod and Mitchell 300 reel.

5lbs line a bloody butcher, a bibio and white moth and he fishing for white trout.
It's part of our trout fishing heritage, I did it as a kid
And my nephew and niece who are 8 and 6 go down to the river and use their bubbles and flies.

Their great grandfather did it their grandad and uncle ie me have so.

If one's ones respectful of the size limit and season's and amount of fish so be it.

I love dry fly fishing for seatrout as it's very satisfying flicking a fly upstream on a summer's evening, knowing that I'd probably catch them easier with the wet flies bumbles and bibios etc

But that's my angle on it, I have to not burst someone else's bubble and fishing tackle etc

viper123 · 13-11-2019 4:15pm

jb35a wrote: »

Hi,

I'm hoping to get prepared to go back fishing after next March, I haven't been out fishing in the last eight to ten years! I grew up fishing for brown trout with a fly and bubble, found it to be the most relaxing thing in the world.

I often heard fly and bubble isn't really an above board method of fishing, is this true?
I'd be hoping to go fishing rivers in Kildare / Carlow.

The only thing I think is worth mentioning is it is not fly fishing using a bubble and fly, so any fly only waters wouldn't permit it. Other than that I cannot see it being any different to lure or worm fishing.

jb35a · 13-11-2019 9:22pm

That's all great news! I'll just need to find the right river in that case, hopefully it won't be too hard.
I tried to learn dry fly fishing when I was around ten or twelve, wasn't gone on it at all, everything felt so cumbersome - although I might of been using adult sized rods - it was a day put on by the local angling club for kids.

I'd be lucky to get out 3-5 time's next year fishing with my missus, so I'm not to keen to commit to go and learn dry fly fishing.
Im more of a few evenings a year to relax, couldn't care less about a catch and release policy (in that I'd nearly always release anyway), than someone who want's to get fairly involved in angling or to catch big tasty salmon to bring home.

And yeah I appreciate it's not fly fishing at all, more bubble and lure. I'm just hoping to get my few evenings in next year without pissing off any in authority of the river!

Thanks for the advice everyone!

SeaFields · 13-11-2019 10:03pm

nthclare wrote: »

But I find it endearing meeting an old guy on the river with his 40 year old trout rod and Mitchell 300 reel.

There was a elderly guy I knew simply from meeting him at one of my rivers and he was as skilful as any fly angler with his bubble and fly. He used stalk trout with it, especially after dark, and could land the bubble in your pocket. I saw him catch some beautiful trout over the years

CreadanLady · 13-06-2023 2:22pm

Up my way on the suir I've often hear that bubble fishing was an big no-no. You're hear tales of casual fair weather anglers getting ran out of it for being caught with a bubble and spinner. Or being told that if you go into such a field to fish and are seen with a bubble, so-and-so will will be out with the shotgun. How much of that is true I do not know. Maybe it is just old wives tales to deter youngsters.

What is the big deal over it? Is it that it is too effective a method and would result in depletion of stocks? Or as I had heard from a friend, the repeated splashdown of the bubble would scare away the fish for other anglers.

But you say that it is not illegal, but that it is not permitted by certain "Clubs" that control a certain stretch of river. That seems a bit contradictory. How can it be legal to use, but at the same time is not permitted by clubs.

That is may be against the clubs rules is one thing, but surely that don't apply in any legal enforceable sense, and certainly how could it apply to a person who is not a member of such a club - to whom the rules would be totally irrelevant.

Any how does a club "control" a stretch of river? How is that achieved? Is there some legal instrument or order or the like that gives Clubs legal authority over the use of a certain stretch of river for angling? If so does such an instrument or order give any rights of enforcement against anyone breaching club rules, or some other rules that apply to non members.

Out of interest I'd be interested to hear some clarity on this.

boomdocker · 15-06-2023 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120709695#Comment_120709695

On the legalities and 'control' of a stretch of fishing that a club/syndicate/individual owns (as in the fishing rights) yes it is often policed on the clubs behalf with a Water Keeper. A water keeper is a court appointed representative who has powers similar to an IFI bailiff regarding policing of waters

My understanding is that the difference between the two is that an Inland Fisheries bailiff is concerned with upholding the laws of the state, i.e. valid licences, using valid methods etc... whereas the water keeper is primarily policing on behalf of the fishery owner and if the fishery owner has it own rules/regs for example 'no bubble fishing' then he/she will police that element too

IFI won't police bubble fishing as it's classified as fly fishing, so nothing illegal about it, assuming you have a licence, if necessary

CreadanLady · 16-06-2023 3:00pm

I see. So if a water keeper catches someone who is not a club member fishing in a way that is outside of the rules, what enforcement can they do against that person? I mean, if the water keeper is just enforcing club rules rather than the laws of the state....can they initiate some sort of prosecution against the person in the courts, or issue a fine that can be enforced by the courts? I don't see how they can since they are not enforcing the laws of the state, but rather the rules of a club - and how can you even enforce a club rule against someone who isn't a club member?

Further, is a water keeper allowed to detain a person, or demand their name and address for instance? I mean sure, as any other person is entitled to do, they could detain a person if they have a reasonable cause to believe that the person has committed an arrestable offence, and detain them until the gardai arrive - but in the case of breaches of club fishery rules, since they are just club rules and not a law of the state then surely they are not arrestable "offences" if you could even call them that.

Basically, does this water keeper have any real power like a Garda, or other officer of the law like a IFI officer etc, or are they essentially equivalent to a Mall Cop - they might have some influence with someone naive or docile/compliant, but could equally be told to shove their club rules up their arse and be absolutely powerless enforce anything upon someone who is non-cooperative.

I'm not trying to put anything down here by the way - I am just trying to understand how the regulation of this whole area works, is any of it actually Enforceable in a meaningful way (ie against someone who is unwilling/uncooperative) or is it just "enforced" on someone voluntarily if they play along with a sort of charade role play that doesn't have any meaningful legal force behind it.

Jim_Hodge · 16-06-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722794#Comment_120722794

If not a member then you can't fish there anyway.

CreadanLady · 16-06-2023 4:41pm

But says who? Is there a criminal offence that you can be prosecuted for if you do?

Club rules are one thing, but club rules are not laws of the state.

Jim_Hodge · 17-06-2023 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723238#Comment_120723238

Fishing rights are a law and if the club holds the rights them you cannot fish there without a permit from them. In reality they'd probably just make it impossible for you to keep fishing rather than call the Gardaí. It would take some nerve to insist on fishing illegally on club waters.

boomdocker · 21-06-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722794#Comment_120722794

Not going to try to answer the individual points, but yes, a court-appointed water keeper does for example have the authority to apprehend, with the same power as a menber of An Garda Siochana, as detailed in the relevant act of law - see here:

http://www.acts.ie/en.act.1959.0014.47.html

If you have a read through that, it will answer most of your questions/observations.

Is Fly and bubble fishing, not allowed on most rivers? (Trout)

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