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rent allowance-social welfare

  • 26-11-2003 9:46pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭


    in the budget estimates last week the minister for social welfare announced significant changes in the rent allowance scheme for welfare recipients.
    she intends to restrict rent allowance to those who have been in rented accomadation for six months prior to making the application.
    this restriction will effectively prevent long term welfare recipients from moving out of the family home-it seems to be aimed primarily at lone parents.
    currently there are 60000 recipients of rent allowance for private rented accomadation in this country.
    this appears to be increasing at a rate of approx 7500 per year.
    in addition there are 48000 on housing waiting list for public housing.
    next year the government expects 5000 local authority houses to be built- a slight increase on last year.
    it is clear that as a nation we have been unable to provide sufficient public housing for some years now and we have relied on the private rented sector to make up the shortfall.
    this new restriction will prevent the use of the private sector to alleviate the need for public housing.
    while aimed primarily at the poor this restriction will impact heavily on the owners of rented property as well.
    some appartment blocks in dublin have at least 20% rent allowance recipients.


Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    I'll admit selfishly I hope alot of people pull out of rented accomadation so as rent keeps falling and buy to letters sell their money losing properties and voila cheaper houses (as least thats what im praying for)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    I think this makes a lot of sense. It will make people who have no intention of working realise that unless they work they'll be living with their parents or friends for a long time.

    It may also reduce the number of planned pregnancies so as to get a house or flat. Ok it may cause problems for some, notably some single parents, but by and large it has to be seen as a positive step in trying to reduce the numbers of those who shouldn't be on welfare.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    Originally posted by Imposter
    It may also reduce the number of planned pregnancies so as to get a house or flat.

    Do you honestly think that there are that many people out there who actually sit down and think "hmmm I wanna move outta my house my parents are wreckin me head" ahh "i know I'll get pregnant and in 9 months or so I'll be able to get a free gaff"

    Honestly no-one unless incredibly stupid / selfish would make such a decision of such magnatude like that.

    Tell me Imposter whats ur current situation I ask because you speak so flippantly about the whole thing. My GF's friend is a single mother the father is an absolute sham waster of a parent who doesnt see the kid her parents are dead and she gets rent allowance she's completely fending for herself (apart from the clothes that my kid has outgrown that we and some others give her) She has absolutely no intention of working and I dont blame her for a start she wants to be a parent first and secondly why bother if ya can get something for free.

    Hmmm maybe your a tad bit jealous?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭sixtysix


    the minister is also abolishing a creche payment again mainly made to lone parents-this is a small sub made to community based creches and she is also abolishing a diet allowance sub which is paid to people with specific medical problems the bulk of whom are old age pensioners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    LONE PARENTS???????

    The majority of people I know are no more lone than a married couple.

    Now don't start saying there are lone parents who deserve this etc etc, because I know that and I agree.

    The problem with the system is, there are far too many couples living in council houses or houses rented by the council and pretending to be lone parents.

    The council opened an estate in my are about 2 years ago and there was a lot of women who got houses because they were lone parents, well I can tell yea they aint lone parents now. There couples getting a house for nothing.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    that is true and I must admit we were very tempted to pull that ruse but in the end we didnt.

    I was of the opinion that they checked on a regular basis and surely there must be a better way of catching out the scammers rather than punishing the ones who actually need the benefit i tell ya its the usual story with this country the few (or many) ruin it for the rest that tge wgole thing was created for


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    Originally posted by _raptor_
    Do you honestly think that there are that many people out there who actually sit down and think "hmmm I wanna move outta my house my parents are wreckin me head" ahh "i know I'll get pregnant and in 9 months or so I'll be able to get a free gaff"

    Honestly no-one unless incredibly stupid / selfish would make such a decision of such magnatude like that.

    Tell me Imposter whats ur current situation I ask because you speak so flippantly about the whole thing. My GF's friend is a single mother the father is an absolute sham waster of a parent who doesnt see the kid her parents are dead and she gets rent allowance she's completely fending for herself (apart from the clothes that my kid has outgrown that we and some others give her) She has absolutely no intention of working and I dont blame her for a start she wants to be a parent first and secondly why bother if ya can get something for free.

    Hmmm maybe your a tad bit jealous?
    I know for a fact there are teenage mothers from poor backgrounds who if they have one kid (whether planned or not) realise that in order to be pushed a lot further up the housing list have a second kid. Also what you say about these so-called lone parents is also true that as soon as they get this house the boyfriend moves in too. That's abusing the system as they are not lone parents.

    I don't care if you agree with me or not but there are cases out there who deserve the support that the current system has for such a situation, but as is far too often the way in Ireland a large percentage of people are out to 'cheat the system'. These abuses of the system have to be stopped.

    Raptor, your friend seems to be such a genuine case. She would not be denied under the proposals as outlined above. She has no parental support and no support from the father. As for being jealous, what would I be jealous about?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭SCULLY


    Originally posted by _raptor_
    My GF's friend is a single mother the father is an absolute sham waster of a parent who doesnt see the kid her parents are dead and she gets rent allowance she's completely fending for herself (apart from the clothes that my kid has outgrown that we and some others give her) She has absolutely no intention of working and I dont blame her for a start she wants to be a parent first and secondly why bother if ya can get something for free.

    You were making a pretty good case and then you fell at the last hurdle -
    why bother if ya can get something for free

    Because it's not free - it just means that others are paying for it - not her.

    There are genuine hardship cases which should be catered for - similarily there are spongers out there who are quite happy to sit on their asses and let the stste(ie us) pay for everything. Unfortunatley the latter have a tendency to mess it up for the former.


  • Moderators Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭LFCFan


    the welfare system in Ireland is over abused and something has to give. There's probably millions that could be saved if the scumbags that abuse it are caught and stopped. And then you've the other side of the coin. The people who really need it but are refused. I for example had been offered a job but it wasn't starting for 3 months. I went to claim the Dole for the 3 months to get me there but was told it would take nearly as long to get any assistance as it was my first time. I even showed them my acceptance letter for the job. Yet there are gougers out there who will live on welfare forever 'cause they are lazy bastards who refuse to do a days work because they feel the State owes them something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Originally posted by LFCFan
    I for example had been offered a job but it wasn't starting for 3 months. I went to claim the Dole for the 3 months to get me there but was told it would take nearly as long to get any assistance as it was my first time.
    It would have been backdated to the date of application though.
    (shag all good to you now admittedly)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Originally posted by irish1
    LONE PARENTS???????
    The council opened an estate in my are about 2 years ago and there was a lot of women who got houses because they were lone parents, well I can tell yea they aint lone parents now. There couples getting a house for nothing.

    I presume that given your concern about this issue, you have contacted your local council housing dept to inform them of this fraud?


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by LFCFan
    There's probably millions that could be saved if the scumbags that abuse it are caught and stopped.
    Tax cheat scumbags cost the state a lot more than welfare scumbags.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Originally posted by Victor
    Tax cheat scumbags cost the state a lot more than welfare scumbags.
    Indeed. Not that I'm condoning welfare cheats mind you but one Ray Burke is equal to thousands of welfare cheats. From a pure economic opportunity cost basis, focussing resources on the big thieves is a solution with a greater return.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Cork


    Originally posted by irish1
    LONE PARENTS???????

    The majority of people I know are no more lone than a married couple.

    Now don't start saying there are lone parents who deserve this etc etc, because I know that and I agree.

    I would agree.

    I really think that the ex partners of lone parents need to pay support and rent allowance to the lone parent.

    The worst thing is that - to obtain rent allownace you have to apply for Local Authority Housing. This was pushing more people onto local authority housing lists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭sixtysix


    in fact all sixty thousand rent allowance recipients will have to register for local authority housing. as the government only intends building five thousand new public housing units next year this means fifty five thousand people will have a wasted journey.
    next year expect to hear demands from local authorities for extra staff to help register these recipients.
    thus the public service grows incrementally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    My GF's friend is a single mother the father is an absolute sham waster of a parent who doesnt see the kid her parents are dead and she gets rent allowance she's completely fending for herself (apart from the clothes that my kid has outgrown that we and some others give her) She has absolutely no intention of working and I dont blame her for a start she wants to be a parent first and secondly why bother if ya can get something for free.

    why doesnt she haul his arse into court and sue him for maintainence

    Im sure in families where both parents are working the mother would like to be a mother first but they dont have the choice because the government doesnt help them pay their morgage for them or doesnt pay their medical or childcare fees or pay for their childrens school uniforms. Wanting to be a mother first is a bit of a cop out


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Court/lawyer fees would prevent that :)
    What is needed is a Child Support Agency to chase down the deserted bf/gf of these people who have the children.
    Surprised it was not introduced here since it has been in existence in the uk and been effective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    In the last five years I've seen 3 evictions, all of the rent allowance tenants, and all of them the worst scumbags you could possibly meet. In fact I've only even known one person on rent allowance who genuinely needed it and wasn't sponging off the system or doing nixers on the sly (I know somebody at the moment whose just got social housing and has a combined income of 1400 euros a month from "disability" and nixers, not to mention a medical card etc - when there are people working their butts off to get less than that). And that only case was a woman who had left her violent alcoholic husband, and taken her two kids with her for their safety and had every intention of sueing him for every penny he had and for child support.

    The way I see it is - if you have somewhere else to go (i.e. parents usually) then you have no need of housing and so shouldn't be getting rent allowance. The whole idea is to stop people going on the dole or disability and then squeezing the system for everything they can get. I know loads of people here in Cork who have never worked a day in their life and their parents have beautiful and empty houses out of town who get rent allowance to live in the city so they can have a social life! (And I know of people who work who cannot afford to move out.) And I've seen loads of cases of RA scumbags getting the fanciest flat in the house pretty much free gratia.

    I've found most of the rent allowance tenants to be very unpleasant - noisy, lazy, untidy, and out to get everything they could for nothing (for example, in my place they wait for you to put money in the meter for the shared washing machine so they can do their washing for free!)

    About 1/3 of all private tenants get rent allowance - and that means landlords just hike up their rent to the max allowance - why do you think rents have gone so high? So everybody else ends up paying the same. I think its great that I'll no longer have to worry about the next vacany in my place being filled by a rent allowance scumbag. So I'm delighted with the new law. (Anyway if you haven't been renting for 6 months, you've obviously been living somewhere).

    In fairness only the single ones are scumbags - I don't begrudge somebody with a family or child the place to live - after all its not the childs fault for the parents bad points.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭star gazer


    It was so important for the building industry to get extra time for tax breaks on lucrative car parks that these cuts were ut in to balance the books. For a government that espouses individualisation it seems moronic to want adult families (ie adult children) to be stuck with each other indefinitely.


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