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one length irons test

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    #32
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭Russman


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It has been done before though. In fact, afaik, that's where De Chambeau started from. Bobby Jones used them at one stage I think. Tommy Armour produced them in 1989. The first ones were made by a Canadian company in 1986.

    I knew they had been produced on occasion in the past, didn't know it was Tommy Armour made them, interesting.

    Still, if they worked for more than just the odd person I think they would have gained some traction in the market. Maybe with modern production and fitting they might find their niche but I have my doubts. Wouldn't mind hitting a few just to see though.


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    #33
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Russman wrote: »
    I knew they had been produced on occasion in the past, didn't know it was Tommy Armour made them, interesting.

    Still, if they worked for more than just the odd person I think they would have gained some traction in the market. Maybe with modern production and fitting they might find their niche but I have my doubts. Wouldn't mind hitting a few just to see though.
    Yeah. I was really only posting that so Roadrunner can reference Bobby Jones when people call him De Chambeau. :)


    These are the Tomy Armour EQLs


    single-length-irons-eql.jpg


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    #34
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I think Bryson De Shambo is an idiot.


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    #35
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Dbu wrote: »
    Before I ask you a question, Whats your handicap Roadrunner?

    There's been a long build-up to this question :)


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    #36
    Keano
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    I think Bryson De Shambo is an idiot.
    That's a wonderful contribution to the discussion. If you have nothing to add, then don't post again. Thanks


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    #37
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    We were down at the range before captains this year in Co. Sligo GC and Roadrunner kindly let me hit his 4 iron a few times, apart from the first one, I hit every shot after that right on the sweet spot with a lovely soft draw. I never use my own 4 iron (and I was fitted for my irons) so was surprised to hit Roadrunner’s one so well.


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    #38
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Shot 2under gross on 12 hole comp yesterday to win with 32 points.

    My putting was bang on and I had a good bit of luck.

    I also had a number of very difficult mid-iron shots into wind, requiring some shaping and/or height control under or over trees.

    While I can't definitely say one length clubs "helped" me get this score, I can now say that I can score well with them and they don't seem to get in my way :D


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    #39
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    The main reason behind one length clubs is increased accuracy in the long irons. As the shafts are shorter in the 4,5 and 6 irons compared to normal, they are easier to control and hit more frequently from the sweet spot.



    For a golfer who plays a lot of long irons, particularly into par 3s and 4s, this can be a really good option and is very helpful to slicers of the ball.


    The problem with single length irons is two fold, the shorter length in the long irons means a little less speed and harder to get enough trajectory or height in them. The longer length in the short irons means higher trajectories and longer length shots, making short irons a little harder to control.


    There's a couple of ways around the problems, one change the weighting in the long iron heads to get higher launches and trajectories, Cobra have a one length hybrid which is a great way to do it. Also alter the lofts in the longer and shorter irons, and higher centre of gravities in the shorter irons.



    A second way is to double length, one length for the 4,5,6,7 (7 iron length) and maybe wedge length for the 8,9,W,SW. It slightly defeats the purpose of just having one swing and one length, but two swings with two lengths might be better for some golfers over multiple lengths.


    The concept does suit a lot of golfers but there is an immense reluctance to try. There really is no harm in trying, what's the worst that can happen? What's the best that can happen?


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    #40
    doublecross
    Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭doublecross


    RoadRunner wrote: »
    Shot 2under gross on 12 hole comp yesterday to win with 32 points.

    My putting was bang on and I had a good bit of luck.

    I also had a number of very difficult mid-iron shots into wind, requiring some shaping and/or height control under or over trees.

    While I can't definitely say one length clubs "helped" me get this score, I can now say that I can score well with them and they don't seem to get in my way :D

    Well done RoadRunner, great score.

    You were always a good iron player. Once you putt well you are always going to score. But you have me intrigued. I like the idea of having the 4, 5 and 6 irons all the same length. I wouldn't touch the rest, they're fine as they are. Wonder would it be possible to cut down existing 4/5 irons or would the weighting/lie be all wrong or possible to adjust?


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    #41
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    doublecross wrote: »
    you have me intrigued. I like the idea of having the 4, 5 and 6 irons all the same length. I wouldn't touch the rest, they're fine as they are. Wonder would it be possible to cut down existing 4/5 irons or would the weighting/lie be all wrong or possible to adjust?

    Short answer is no you shouldn't!

    Longer answer is that there's differences in the head weight of your irons. The 4 head is lighter than the 5 which is lighter than the 6. This is normal. If you were to suddenly cut those three shafts to the same length then your 4i would start to feel weighted differently to the 5 and the 6. The 4 would feel too light. You could probably add extra weight to the iron heads to keep them equal, but you'd need a quite a bit and it would likely affect the look of the iron (make it crap looking).

    ShivasIrons proposed that there could/should be two lengths, 4-7 and 8-sw. This would be more in line with what you would like. But no manufacturer does this yet.

    Interestingly cobra does make the iron set that I have in BOTH one length and regular lengths. This means that you should be able to go do something like what you want with them:

    onelen.jpg

    But this would mean a switch to Cobra irons.

    IMO if you are not invested enough in the idea of one length to make the change across all irons then you're going to be introduce problems and expense all at the goal of trying to have an easier to hit 4iron. I've seen you hit your long irons sweet :D


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    #42
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    https://golfweek.com/2018/12/08/greg-norman-would-use-single-length-irons-if-he-could-do-it-over-again/

    Greg Norman talking about them at the weekend


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    #43
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    extra-weight.jpg

    I took this photo over the weekend when giving my gear a clean. The 4 to 7 have replaced cutouts area which get bigger from 7 towards 4. This is where I believe extra weight is added to the heads at manufacture to keep the weights consistent. These bits are not on the 8i up.


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    #44
    billy3sheets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    The main reason behind one length clubs is increased accuracy in the long irons. As the shafts are shorter in the 4,5 and 6 irons compared to normal, they are easier to control and hit more frequently from the sweet spot.

    Why not just grip down the shafts instead? Would you not achieve the same result?


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    #45
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    billy3sheets wrote: »
    Why not just grip down the shafts instead? Would you not achieve the same result?


    Gripping down a 4 iron by an inch and a half or a 5 iron by an inch could lead the top of the grip getting stuck in clothing for example


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    #46
    Derek Zoolander
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Derek Zoolander


    billy3sheets wrote: »
    Why not just grip down the shafts instead? Would you not achieve the same result?

    gripping down doesn't change the swingweight of the club


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    #47
    billy3sheets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    Derek Zoolander wrote: »
    gripping down doesn't change the swingweight of the club

    Right. Why is this important? Fitted clubs wouldn't change either.


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    #48
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    The main reason behind one length clubs is increased accuracy in the long irons.

    For me any better accuracy in the long irons a nice side effect rather than the main reason behind them.


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    #49
    Derek Zoolander
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Derek Zoolander


    billy3sheets wrote: »
    Right. Why is this important? Fitted clubs wouldn't change either.

    Choking down lightens the club's swingweight and effectively makes the shaft stiffer. It also makes it difficult to hit the ball high enough for all situations - if you're getting fit they should be matching the set in terms of MOI and you shouldn't need to grip down especially on long irons


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    #50
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    Derek Zoolander wrote: »
    Choking down lightens the club's swingweight and effectively makes the shaft stiffer. It also makes it difficult to hit the ball high enough for all situations - if you're getting fit they should be matching the set in terms of MOI and you shouldn't need to grip down especially on long irons


    Choking down on a club doesn't change the stiffness or the swing weight of the club, both are static measurements. Cutting down the shaft does lighten the swing weight and stiffen the shaft.


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    #51
    Derek Zoolander
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Derek Zoolander


    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    Choking down on a club doesn't change the stiffness or the swing weight of the club, both are static measurements. Cutting down the shaft does lighten the swing weight and stiffen the shaft.

    it would change the 'effective' swing weight - you're right because swingweight is calculated in static conditions.. but by gripping it down you are effectively changing the fulcrum so the changing one of the inputs to swingweight


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    #52
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    RoadRunner wrote: »
    Shot 2under gross on 12 hole comp yesterday to win with 32 points.

    My putting was bang on and I had a good bit of luck.

    I also had a number of very difficult mid-iron shots into wind, requiring some shaping and/or height control under or over trees.

    While I can't definitely say one length clubs "helped" me get this score, I can now say that I can score well with them and they don't seem to get in my way :D

    As quoted above, my last time out was a win.

    Now I followed this up with a class win on an equal score with the listed overall winner (they must have it on countback).

    With my previous win I had lucky breaks, great up-and-downs and a super day with the putter. This latest round came about through great striking of irons, driver and the wedges. I think I only made two putts outside of 4 feet and they were about 8 and 10 feet. I lost a ball on a par 5 and made green in reg & birdy with the provo (for bogey) and I had 100% GIR on all other holes. Softer ground conditions seem to suit me, there was also placing in operation, clean and drop in the rough, and Sunday morning conditions were nice and calm.

    I still find the PW difficult to hit consistently. I only needed to hit the pw once during the round. It was hit bang on-line, but a little thin, pitched on the green but short of the flag by about 8-10 meters. I also struck a 4i a little thin another time in the round and missed the green right. With PW in my hand I do kind of secretly think to myself, 'oh sh1t, can I just punch a 9i or force the 48 degree wedge instead?' which is not ideal.

    However, taken as a whole, over a little bit more time now, it's becoming clear that single length is good for me. I'm not struggling with high/low ball flight that others have struggled with. I still hit a few thin or fat with the longer clubs and are punished with a significant loss of distance for these.

    I seem to hit my whole bag well while I have these irons in play, this was what I wanted to see (even it didn't happen overnight).


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    #53
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Well done Roadrunner, can see that handicap tumbling more and more.


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    #54
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Minor update:
    Still going well. I don't see myself ever going back to regular length irons.

    My form over the winter has been good. It's 12 hole winter competition format in my place, it's playing a little easier with placing on fairway and lift, clean & drop in rough. Rough is also down, and leaves are gone from the trees.

    From my last 9 starts in singles games since 1st Dec. I've beaten my HC 6 times, equaled it once and failed to play to my HC twice. I've had outright wins twice, a division win once, also won in a team scramble event.

    I'm driving the ball very well which is giving me opportunities with my new irons. And there's been a steady reduction in the number of bad strikes I've been hitting with these.

    I still don't like the set pw, sometimes I take it out of the bag completely.

    I didn't like the narrowness of the gapping of the irons in the beginning. There's really only about 40 metres difference in distance between how far the PW and 4i goes for me, HOWEVER.. :eek: I've lately started liking this :rolleyes: It makes it easier to pick a club.

    I like these for the wind.

    A minor annoyance is that with only one major manufacturer making these types of clubs you do not have much choice available in irons. I've seen the videos of the lovely new apex pro irons online but even if I won the lotto I couldn't switch to these without taking a step backwards.

    Anyway there you go. Looking forward to the summer. I'll update again in summer, as I don't think the 4 and 5irons will be stopping as well on the hard dry greens in summer.


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