Doctors that aren't doctors. Dr. that are not Dr.

jimgoose · 11-12-2018 3:53pm

hynesie08 wrote: »

Well, in Latin it's Medicinae Doctor, I'm not sure if that translates to medical doctor or doctor of medicine, Google says both..

Doctor of Medicine, where "Doctor" retains it's original Latin meaning of "teacher".

Lux23 · 11-12-2018 3:55pm

I think if someone spends five or six years in research they're more than entitled to the title, Doctor.

jimgoose · 11-12-2018 4:00pm

enda1 wrote: »

Seems a bit of a British hangover trying to give everyone titles when they're irrelevant to general life. Dr, sir, lord etc.
I'd only and solely use the term Dr for medical doctors as a reference to their job and not overly as a title either.

I'm not myself any form of doctor I might add, but I work with many "doctors" in engineering, science and philosophy, and not one would use the title. So I don't think there's a bit need for much angst surrounding the subject as it tends to come out in the wash anyway.

Titles like that are taken rather more seriously in Germany, according to my old mucker Herr Professor-Doktor Rittmeister Dieter Frieherr Müller.

hynesie08 · 11-12-2018 4:10pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Doctor of Medicine, where "Doctor" retains it's original Latin meaning of "teacher".

Fair enough, so would someone who teaches medicine be entitled to be called doctor??

jimgoose · 11-12-2018 4:32pm

hynesie08 wrote: »

Fair enough, so would someone who teaches medicine be entitled to be called doctor??

I would imagine anyone lecturing in that capacity would be at least qualified as a medical doctor, so yes, I suppose so.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 11-12-2018 5:00pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I think if someone spends five or six years in research they're more than entitled to the title, Doctor.

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

The word doctor should be reserved for folks who make the decisions in the provision of healthcare. If someone is a master engineer or carpenter they can call themselves whatever they want, but they shouldn't be called doctors.

jimgoose · 11-12-2018 5:21pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

The word doctor should be reserved for folks who make the decisions in the provision of healthcare don't know what it means.

FYP!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 11-12-2018 5:47pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

The word doctor should be reserved for folks who make the decisions in the provision of healthcare. If someone is a master engineer or carpenter they can call themselves whatever they want, but they shouldn't be called doctors.

You seem to be missing the whole point. The title of Dr predates it's use to describe a medical practitioner. Why should it be reserved for a use it was never intended? Do you honestly think somebody who achieved a Doctorate shouldn't have the qualification of Dr? And nobody gets a Doctorate (apart from honorary ones which are another issue) through entitlement regardless of how long they strive for it.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 11-12-2018 5:48pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The word doctor should be reserved for folks who make the decisions in the provision of healthcare.

No, those are called "politicians".

fryup · 11-12-2018 5:49pm

two doctors....:p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnaHybw6CBI

mikhail · 11-12-2018 5:50pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

Yes, it's called a doctorate, which has made you a doctor for a thousand years.

You've made no argument for this bizarre demand that everyone change their language other than that you're too dim to understand the word has two meanings.

Dim, here, is the modern slang sense of "dull of apprehension, stupid" is from 1892, and not in the Old Norse meaning of dark or gloomy. You can, however, still use it for the original meaning.

scopper · 11-12-2018 6:04pm

I'm an academic Dr. and to be honest it's never really come up; certainly I've never had any confusion about it.

Basically the only time you might use the title is (a) speaking at a formal event, (b) on documents and (c) some students, especially foreign ones from more traditional societies, might insist on using it.

I'd not worry about the issue so much. I mean there's for sure bigger issues.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 11-12-2018 6:22pm

scopper wrote: »

I'm an academic Dr. and to be honest it's never really come up; certainly I've never had any confusion about it.

Basically the only time you might use the title is (a) speaking at a formal event, (b) on documents and (c) some students, especially foreign ones from more traditional societies, might insist on using it.

I'd not worry about the issue so much. I mean there's for sure bigger issues.

Exactly. It just doesn't come up. Few academics will ever say "I'm a doctor." An engineer or computer scientist with a PhD will still say "I'm an engineer" or "I'm a computer scientist."

mikhail · 11-12-2018 6:32pm

Ezra Sticky Noblewoman wrote: »

Exactly. It just doesn't come up. Few academics will ever say "I'm a doctor." An engineer or computer scientist with a PhD will still say "I'm an engineer" or "I'm a computer scientist."

It goes beyond that. It's literally illegal to falsely claim to be a medical doctor.

Somedaythefire · 11-12-2018 6:42pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

The word doctor should be reserved for folks who make the decisions in the provision of healthcare. If someone is a master engineer or carpenter they can call themselves whatever they want, but they shouldn't be called doctors.

Why? You keep saying this but not elaborating why that word should be used in the wrong context, but banned from being used in the proper context?

[Deleted User] · 11-12-2018 8:56pm

mikhail wrote: »

It goes beyond that. It's literally illegal to falsely claim to be a medical doctor.

Anyone with a PhD is fully entitled to say they are a doctor, more so than a medical “doctor” imo.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 11-12-2018 9:05pm

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 11-12-2018 9:09pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

All I can say, in my experience both as a student and a mentor, is.....

Absolute Poppycock!

Doc07 · 11-12-2018 9:20pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not the other way around, no?

MD , the higher degree by research awarded by many Ireland and British Universities that is, not the professional title in North America, is the correct form for Doctor of Medicine. Same as PhD for Doctor of Philosophy

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-12-2018 10:41pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

That’s odd, all the gold medallists on my course (those who get a really, really good first class honours degree) did doctorates.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 11-12-2018 10:50pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That’s odd, all the gold medallists on my course (those who get a really, really good first class honours degree) did doctorates.

Probably an arts or sociology field where the employment options are very limited? Or did you graduate during the recession. That wouldn't normally be the case.

[Deleted User] · 11-12-2018 11:00pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Probably an arts or sociology field where the employment options are very limited? Or did you graduate during the recession. That wouldn't normally be the case.

I don’t think you realize how hard a PhD is and that almost every innovation ever made came from research done by researchers with PhDs.

You won’t get accepted into a PhD without excelling in your undergrad or postgrad.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-12-2018 11:38pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Probably an arts or sociology field where the employment options are very limited? Or did you graduate during the recession. That wouldn't normally be the case.

Nope, the hard sciences. General science splitting off into subjects such as physics, astrophysics, microbiology, biochemistry, neuroscience and chemistry. The recession has the square root of fúck all do with it. I graduated at the very beginning of the recession but our lab supervisors, who were all doctoral candidates, graduated during the Tiger. They were all high-achievers in their undergrads.

I have a 2:1 degree and was rejected for every PhD programme I applied for. It was a low 2:1 and wasn’t deemed good enough. The standards are high.

HamSarris · 11-12-2018 11:49pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

Excellent example of projection - Feels threatened by those more highly educated. Narcissistic defense kicks in order to deal with feelings of inferiority - Creates belief that those who get PhDs are just nerds who can't succeed in real life (on the basis of no empirical evidence). Feels better about himself and maintains grandiose sense of self.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 12-12-2018 12:49am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Nope, the hard sciences. General science splitting off into subjects such as physics, astrophysics, microbiology, biochemistry, neuroscience and chemistry. The recession has the square root of fúck all do with it. I graduated at the very beginning of the recession but our lab supervisors, who were all doctoral candidates, graduated during the Tiger. They were all high-achievers in their undergrads.

I have a 2:1 degree and was rejected for every PhD programme I applied for. It was a low 2:1 and wasn’t deemed good enough. The standards are high.

I've bolded the important part.

As I said in my OP obviously the lower end of the class (low 2.1 falls in this category) aren't going to pursue PhDs. Neither are the motivated high achievers.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 12-12-2018 1:32am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I've bolded the important part.

As I said in my OP obviously the lower end of the class (low 2.1 falls in this category) aren't going to pursue PhDs. Neither are the motivated high achievers.

You conveniently ignored the part where I said that my lab supervisors were doctoral candidates who graduated with excellent degrees during the boom years. They would have their pick of industry jobs but plumped for doing a doctorate.

Oh and in my class a low 2:1 was in the upper end of the results. Many people got 2:2s and a handful got third class honours degrees. I ranked 7th in a class of 28. 2:1s were not handed out easily on my course.

You’ve made all sorts of assumptions in your replies to me. All of them wrong. It’s heavily indicative of a bias. When refuted, you grasp at another straw. Anything to protect the point you made.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 12-12-2018 1:36am

jimgoose wrote: »

FYP!

mikhail wrote: »

Yes, it's called a doctorate, which has made you a doctor for a thousand years.

You've made no argument for this bizarre demand that everyone change their language other than that you're too dim to understand the word has two meanings.

Dim, here, is the modern slang sense of "dull of apprehension, stupid" is from 1892, and not in the Old Norse meaning of dark or gloomy. You can, however, still use it for the original meaning.

Somedaythefire wrote: »

Why? You keep saying this but not elaborating why that word should be used in the wrong context, but banned from being used in the proper context?

I am willing to die on this hill. Old Norse God crap means nothing. If you call yourself a doctor but only know a lot about something irrelevant than you're not a doctor.

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor.

:rolleyes:

CinemaGuy45 · 12-12-2018 1:40am

mikhail · 12-12-2018 2:01am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

I don't see why not. Knowing nothing about anything certainly hasn't stopped you from being the gatekeeper for the English language.

feargale · 12-12-2018 3:48am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I am willing to die on this hill. Old Norse God crap means nothing. If you call yourself a doctor but only know a lot about something irrelevant than you're not a doctor.

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

You seem to have a problem with history.

So, apart from the fact that you don't have a doctorate what do you have?

Doctors that aren't doctors. Dr. that are not Dr.

Comments