Deceased wealthy people estate values published in the newspapers

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 11:11am #1

Seeing as many are obsessed with what other people earn/have, I see in today's paper that Peter Sutherland left 2 million in his will. Estate values are public information from the Probate Office.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-political-figure-and-one-time-advisor-to-the-pope-peter-sutherland-leaves-2m-in-will-39545170.html

The Indo is attempting an angle with the comment that Sutherland was once said to be worth 153 million. There's probably people delighted that by the time he died he was only worth 2 million. AFAIK this only covers Irish assets which could be a small part of a person's actual wealth. Also, assets held in joint names often do not need probate. Also, someone may transfer large amounts to family members before death, or shock horror, give large amounts to charity.

Some other estate values that have appeared in the media over the years

Garret Fitzgerald - 86k.
Brian Lenihan Jnr - 368k
Derek Davis - 170k
Rick Parfitt from Status Quo - 240k GBP, UK probate
George Harrison - 99 million GBP, UK probate
George Michael - 98 million GBP, UK probate
Mickey Rooney - 18k USD, US probate

looksee · 20-09-2020 11:17am

Goodness, that isn't even the price of a house in most cases!

Yes, of course, it doesn't take account of jointly held properties.

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 11:27am

looksee wrote: »

Goodness, that isn't even the price of a house in most cases!

Yes, of course, it doesn't take account of jointly held properties.

It's a few years since i filled in a probate form but I just remembered that there was a section on it for jointly held assets. Not sure if half etc. of these would then be counted as part of the deceased's estate.

If everything is in joint names then no probate is needed so no need to go through the process at all.

Rodney Bathgate · 20-09-2020 11:36am

He seems to have had a history of offshore account usage so wouldn’t be surprised if that was still the case at his death.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/offshore-account-was-used-to-secure-sutherland-s-house-loan-1.244299%3fmode=amp

riclad · 20-09-2020 2:20pm

Its very easy for the rich to transfer money to shell companys in luxembourg and other countrys which mean the irish revenue would have no knowledge of someones wealth if they worked in countrys outside ireland.The rich can afford to employ accountants and tax experts to transfer
money to minimise their tax bill .this is legal under eu law

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100115/why-luxembourg-considered-tax-haven.asp
i,m just saying the probate office may not have acess to financial data some people who worked abroad who may have assets outside ireland.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-09-2020 2:20pm

Garret Fitzgerald’s estate is quite low for such a prominent figure. That would just be the money he left though, right?

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 2:49pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Garret Fitzgerald’s estate is quite low for such a prominent figure. That would just be the money he left though, right?

He got into serious financial difficulty, had debts of 200k written off by AIB and also apparently sold the family home. Still, he was probably transferring assets before his death. His pension in his later years would have been about 150k gross per year.

Stovepipe · 20-09-2020 4:14pm

Suds only left Eu2M behind him? To use that great Irish phrase, he did in his hole. Riclad's post sums it up in a nutshell.

Zebra3 · 20-09-2020 6:25pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Seeing as many are obsessed with what other people earn/have, I see in today's paper that Peter Sutherland left 2 million in his will. Estate values are public information from the Probate Office.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-political-figure-and-one-time-advisor-to-the-pope-peter-sutherland-leaves-2m-in-will-39545170.html

The Indo is attempting an angle with the comment that Sutherland was once said to be worth 153 million. There's probably people delighted that by the time he died he was only worth 2 million. AFAIK this only covers Irish assets which could be a small part of a person's actual wealth. Also, assets held in joint names often do not need probate. Also, someone may transfer large amounts to family members before death, or shock horror, give large amounts to charity.

Some other estate values that have appeared in the media over the years

Garret Fitzgerald - 86k.
Brian Lenihan Jnr - 368k
Derek Davis - 170k
Rick Parfitt from Status Quo - 240k GBP, UK probate
George Harrison - 99 million GBP, UK probate
George Michael - 98 million GBP, UK probate
Mickey Rooney - 18k USD, US probate

Taxes are for the little people.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 20-09-2020 7:12pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Suds only left Eu2M behind him? To use that great Irish phrase, he did in his hole. Riclad's post sums it up in a nutshell.

No, it was definitely in his will he left it.

Rodney Bathgate · 20-09-2020 7:16pm

He probably gave the rest of his fortune to the people smugglers, to get thousands more from Africa into the EU illegally.

retalivity · 20-09-2020 8:18pm

I cant believe george michael left as much as george harrison

Leg End Reject · 20-09-2020 8:52pm

Imagine dying and leaving nearly 100 million unspent!

Oh to be wealthy ...

Allinall · 20-09-2020 8:55pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Imagine dying and leaving nearly 100 million unspent!

Oh to be wealthy ...

You’re right.

I certainly won’t be doing it.

Allinall · 20-09-2020 8:57pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Taxes are for the little people.

What have taxes got to do with it?

Leg End Reject · 20-09-2020 8:58pm

Allinall wrote: »

You’re right.

I certainly won’t be doing it.

I'll never have a million, never mind 100m. It seems such a waste to let it build up over your life so it's taxed after your death.

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:01pm

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:02pm

You would wonder how accurate these are and how much is to avoid inheritance tax?

There is no way sutherland left only 2 million

Guy:Incognito · 20-09-2020 9:02pm

retalivity wrote: »

I cant believe george michael left as much as george harrison

I googled and picked the first one I saw but going with an american inflation adjusting calculator $100m in 2001 would be $137m in 2016

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 9:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

About 1 million but his wife left about 9 million.

Liam Cosgrove left 33 million - mainly due to the value of the family home and land in Dublin.

amacca · 20-09-2020 9:07pm

Allinall wrote: »

What have taxes got to do with it?

The less you can get away with declaring the less tax you will have to pay

Wealthy on the ball people have tax avoidance specialist accountants working for them exploiting every loophole, scheme there is.... and grey areas in some cases

Its usually perfectly legal if occasionally morally questionable, if they get good advice it usually costs but you save a lot more in tax you can avoid.....if you get bad ones you get taken advantage of

Add that to the likelihood that most of those people will have transferred assets to partners, sons, daughters loved ones in as tax efficient means as possible before their deaths and you are not looking at their true wealth in that report

Even the 100m ones probably had lots more buried somewhere out of sight of the taxman.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 9:07pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

I doubt it was much since he gifted most of his land to his four kids while he was alive. They are minted now on our backs as we know now.

Anyway who cares anymore. Just to stay Covid Free is a bonus these days.

And remember the wealthy have the best in the business advising them. For a small fee!

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:08pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I doubt it was much since he gifted most of his land to his four kids while he was alive. They are minted now on our backs as we know now.

Anyway who cares anymore. Just to stay Covid Free is a bonus these days.

And remember the wealthy have the best in the business advising them. For a small fee!

AH FECK!

I care ...i care a lot! :mad:

Zebra3 · 20-09-2020 9:17pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

Debt to be written off?

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 9:29pm

As far as I am aware details of discretionary trusts are private?

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:32pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

As far as I am aware details of discretionary trusts are private?

You can pretty much work it out when you see how someone lives though.

I mean yer haughey's young wans live pretty flash!

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 9:38pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You can pretty much work it out when you see how someone lives though.

I mean yer haughey's young wans live pretty flash!

I dunno, old money tends to live modestly enough?

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:39pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I dunno, old money tends to live modestly enough?

They NOT old money! They trash!:mad:

I think its a myth old money lives modestly ..have you seen the tories?

Also there is a diff between ....not having to work and being rich.

A lot of old money ..is not rich ..its just not having to work ..if they are careful ..they can't afford to live flash tho.

yaknowski · 20-09-2020 9:45pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I dunno, old money tends to live modestly enough?

Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations. Haughey's grandkids won't appreciate the hard work he put in to rob and con his way to the wealth.

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 9:47pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They NOT old money! They trash!:mad:

I think its a myth old money lives modestly ..have you seen the tories?

Also there is a diff between ....not having to work and being rich.

A lot of old money ..is not rich ..its just not having to work ..if they are careful ..they can't afford to live flash tho.

I don't think it is all that straightforward tbh. But any old money that I know tend to not be so engaged in their wealth. They are more likely to be less flashy with their money, particularly as they mature.

Money makes money.

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:54pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Money makes money.

True. Its why i hate this pull yourself up lark...if you have nothing to begin with tis not likely.

Deceased wealthy people estate values published in the newspapers

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