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President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,041 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Boggles wrote: »

    How do you know he / she has a dislike for Trump?

    Ahh because they blew a whistle or so they think. I think the whistleblower was bait and they took it hook line and sinker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Seriously doubt a republican senate would impeach him, I also doubt his support base will care either. I have a feeling that its Biden who will come out of this worst. Bit like the crooked Hillary thing. Which could have been Trumps play all along.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    You think itll keep going till 2024 ?

    I dont think anything will happen.

    If Trump finds out there is enough evidence I think he will drop out of the next election.

    If he knows there is not enough evidence he will run and win and the impeachment process will go around in circles for years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,041 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Penn wrote: »

    Regardless, if Trump did what he's being accused of, that's a crime.

    He said he asked the new Ukraine president to help with the criminal investigation of Biden. I don't see how he's going to come out of this worse than them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,466 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Ahh because they blew a whistle or so they think. I think the whistleblower was bait and they took it hook line and sinker.

    So all whistleblowers have a personal dislike against the person or thing they are blowing the whistle on?

    Really?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    As it stands, there's no evidence of any wrongdoing by either Joe or Hunter Biden. This has been confirmed by Ukraine's prosecutor.
    Joe Biden did support the removal of Shokin but this was official
    US policy at the time.


    Likewise, Trump's lawyer urging Ukrainian presidential advisers to investigate matters important to the president is extremely suspect here. Especially as according to the The Economist
    A few days after the telephone conversation between the two presidents, Mr Giuliani flew to Madrid to meet Mr Zelensky’s adviser, Andriy Yermak. He urged Mr Yermak to investigate the matters that were of interest to Mr Trump and held out the prospect of a state visit to America and a meeting with the president.

    That meeting in Madrid was arranged by Kurt Volker, America’s special envoy, whose efforts to help Ukraine restore its territorial integrity and sovereignty over the Donbas region were undermined by the suspension of military aid. Although the State Department insisted Mr Giuliani was merely acting in his private capacity rather than on behalf of the state, in the eyes of any reasonable person—particularly the one from Ukraine where oligarchs wield much informal power—Mr Giuliani was more important than a state official; he was Mr Trump’s consigliere.

    Mr Giuliani’s main source of disinformation on Ukraine was Yuriy Lutsenko, a controversial former prosecutor-general. Mr Lutsenko first tried to sabotage anti-corruption efforts by Ukrainian activists and American-backed investigators, then accused his critics of conspiring against Mr Trump. Trying to ingratiate himself with the White House, and settle his own scores, Mr Lutsenko declared that the stuff about Mr Manafort was all part of an anti-Trump conspiracy.

    It is fairly interesting that Trump is suddenly concerned about corruption in Ukraine. Has he shown any similar willingness to pressure corrupt allies like Egypt? Or just as it involves a rival?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,041 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Lockstep wrote: »


    It is fairly interesting that Trump is suddenly concerned about corruption in Ukraine. Has he shown any similar willingness to pressure corrupt allies like Egypt? Or just as it involves a rival?

    Egypt were mentioned, there was a book written about it last year. Hunter has a few questions to answer along with Biden, add in this all happened on Obamas watch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Egypt were mentioned, there was a book written about it last year. Hunter has a few questions to answer along with Biden, add in this all happened on Obamas watch.
    There was a book written on Trump pressuring Egypt to stop corruption? Can you link me to it? I've Googled it but haven't found anything yet.

    Not many questions for either Biden to answer. As stated above, there's no evidence against either of them. The only potential issue would be Biden pressuring Shokin but this was official US policy at the time and widely welcomed by democracies at the time given how scandal ridden he was.

    Also, the investigation into Burisma was dormant when the US did so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭begsbyOnaTrain


    Damn, I wish my Dad was a dedicated political servant of the people. Their children seem to get all the best jobs. 50k per month for being on the board of directors of a Ukrainian gas company, among other gigs. Nice.

    Good run down of the whole thing here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49800181


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,041 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Lockstep wrote: »

    Not many questions for either Biden to answer

    The book calling out Biden last year.



    and Today.. Biden Ukraine dealings – 7 essential facts

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/peter-schweizer-biden-familys-foreign-dealings-7-essential-facts


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,137 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    He said he asked the new Ukraine president to help with the criminal investigation of Biden. I don't see how he's going to come out of this worse than them.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111340891&postcount=22


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Is Biden’s son dodgy ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    The book calling out Biden last year.



    and Today.. Biden Ukraine dealings – 7 essential facts

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/peter-schweizer-biden-familys-foreign-dealings-7-essential-facts
    So both sources are by the same Breitbart journalist/Steve Bannon partner. Not surprisingly, it's extremely weak and biased.

    The only one of his Fox points that's important is that "Burisma was under legal scrutiny". But the investigation had gone dormant when Biden pressured Ukraine over Shokhin, which as mentioned above, was in line with the Us and EU states foreign policy given Shokin's own involvement with corruption


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,130 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I dont think anything will happen.

    If Trump finds out there is enough evidence I think he will drop out of the next election.

    If he knows there is not enough evidence he will run and win and the impeachment process will go around in circles for years.

    He won’t drop out. If he drops out he will be indicted the minute he leaves office for crimes highlighted in the Mueller report. Statute of limitations would expire before the end of a 2nd presidential term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Rudy Giuliani is gas!


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,130 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The Federalist completely discredited the Whistleblower because their lawyer who is an experienced whistleblower and security clearance legal expert at the Pentagon, had the audacity to intern for Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton for a few months in 2001 (a mere 18 years ago). Clearly, a deep state Democrat operative :rolleyes:

    “Andrew Bakaj, now a managing partner at the Compass Rose Legal Group, interned for Schumer in the spring of 2001 and for Clinton in the fall of the same year, according to Bakaj’s LinkedIn page. More recently, Bakaj has worked as an official in the CIA and Pentagon and specializes in whistleblower and security clearances in his legal practice.”

    Fox and Friends also trying to smooth things over by saying there are a ‘few words’ in the transcript that ‘will raise eyebrows’ according to the Fox News division (whom either spoke to someone who saw the transcript or somehow has an early version of the transcript).

    Republican Senators and Reps also all over social media calling this a witch hunt and presidential harassment of course.

    Full on panic mode in the GOP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,137 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Overheal wrote: »
    He won’t drop out. If he drops out he will be indicted the minute he leaves office for crimes highlighted in the Mueller report. Statute of limitations would expire before the end of a 2nd presidential term.

    I thought the Statute of Limitations stops while he's President, and therefore wouldn't expire, but rather resumes once he leaves office?


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,130 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Penn wrote: »
    I thought the Statute of Limitations stops while he's President, and therefore wouldn't expire, but rather resumes once he leaves office?

    Nope. Clock is still ticking. House introduced a bill to freeze it but you can guess how far that will go in this government.

    https://thinkprogress.org/house-bill-would-pause-statute-of-limitations-on-presidential-crimes-79c8aad87d27/


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    On the face of it, this seems like a big deal and certainly everyone's pushing the "this time it's for real" narrative.

    But the Trump admin is already trying to get ahead of this, owning the narrative by releasing dribs and drabs of information of varying truthfulness.

    They're going to use a technique called the Firehose of falsehood, where you give the illusion of being open and honest, when in reality you are giving a series of conflicting statements on the topic in quick succession. Guiliani's interview last week is a perfect example; in the same interview he said that he didn't and did ask Ukraine to investigate Biden. This wasn't accidental, it's intentional. Now people think it's 50:50 whether or not he did ask for Ukraine's help. If you occupy every position simultaneously, you dont' have to defend any of them.

    The end result is that nobody is entirely sure what's true and what's not, fatigue sets in and people move on. They've used this technique successfully with teh Stormy Daniels case, Trump Jr.'s Russian consipiracy, the Muller report, and they will try it again now.

    So I won't hold my breath until there's anything approaching a proper hearing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    This seems to be the key excerpt from what has been released/unclassified so far by the white house. It's not an exact transcript, more a memo based on the notes taken by people listening in.

    trump-phone-transcript-ukraine-promo-1569369870401-articleLarge-v3.jpg

    I can't see anything in that which would get him in too much trouble, all a bit vague and general and nothing he can really be nailed on.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 81,130 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    osarusan wrote: »
    This seems to be the key excerpt from what has been released/unclassified so far by the white house. It's not an exact transcript, more a memo based on the notes taken by people listening in.

    trump-phone-transcript-ukraine-promo-1569369870401-articleLarge-v3.jpg

    I can't see anything in that which would get him in too much trouble, all a bit vague and general and nothing he can really be nailed on.

    Legal experts disagree

    https://www.mediaite.com/online/smoking-gun-trump-call-asking-ukrainian-president-to-investigate-biden-causes-twitter-meltdown/


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Overheal wrote: »
    That's just a whole load of tweets from people who may or may not be legal experts (The website doesn't say). Most of them seem to be political commentators.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,137 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Key section
    Zelenskyy:
    We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

    Trump:
    I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    Interestingly Trump's approval ratings were sitting at a 2 1/2 year high yesterday. I'm not sure how this story has affected that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Interestingly Trump's approval ratings were sitting at a 2 1/2 year high yesterday. I'm not sure how this story has affected that.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    Higher than it has been for sure, but still only 43%, and it's been in the 40-43% range for pretty much the last 18 months.

    There is a definite floor and ceiling to his support, reflecting the increase in partisanship in the US in recent years. On those numbers, he would find it very difficult to get re-elected.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 322 ✭✭SJW Lover


    I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden.


    Same. Not like Trump is the first to do something like that. Unless we have all got amnesia and forget the "Russia collusion" farce and who instigated it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 322 ✭✭SJW Lover


    Penn wrote: »
    The impeachment hearings are going to be more than just Ukraine though, she's instructed each of the Chairs of the House committees to bring forward their strongest arguments against Trump, so it'll likely run into emoluments violations, obstruction as per the Mueller Report etc. It also gives those committees greater powers to hold hearings and subpeona information/witnesses even before it gets to the Senate for a vote.


    Sounds like more fishing to me. The Dems are going to have to face reality. If there was anything on Trump they would have found it ages ago. They have been basically investigating him since he was elected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,466 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's not the full transcript.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I think I saw somewhere that it was reported that Trump mentioned Biden 8 times.

    So, as we already knew, it's not the full memo of the conversation. And as it has the beginning and end of the conversation, we're not just seeing one uninterrupted excerpt from it either. And there's no way to know at what points chunks of dialogue have been cut out.

    From what I've seen so far, there's nothing specific enough to be a smoking gun or (imo) anything close to it.

    But more will be coming out in the next few days i imagine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    SJW Lover wrote: »
    Sounds like more fishing to me. The Dems are going to have to face reality. If there was anything on Trump they would have found it ages ago. They have been basically investigating him since he was elected.

    They have found plenty on Trump, and plenty of dirt on him is in the public domain.

    Corruption (enriching himself during his presidency)
    Multiple instances of obstruction of justice
    Leaking of classified information
    Cosying up the dictators
    Alienating allies

    Problem is, the GOP controlled Senate have made their bed with Trump, and the entire Republican party has become the Trump party and individual members dare not break ranks because they fear a primary challenge.

    About 40% of the American voting public couldn't give a toss what he does, as long as he nominate judges that have their back on Abortion, Gun Control and Immigration.

    These are facts. His claim during the campaign about being able to walk down avenue and shoot someone are absolutely true when it comes to the GOP and its supporters. They don't give a crap.


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