I think the company is trying to make me quit my job

beauf wrote: »

It rules out an absolute of "everyone".

Similarly only a few is logically unlikely. Considering there are more complex occupations and more abstracted than programming.

uh ok.


But I didn't say everyone could.

To go back to the original post. If you feel the company is backing you into a corner with no other option except to quit, this is constructive dismissal.

If they enter a formal arrangement where they are formally managing your work and outputs, eventually they will be entitled to let you go without any payment.

Few companies offer a payoff as they do not want to been as rewarding incompetence, so simply holding out for a pay out is unlikely to return a reward for you and cause you, your team and manager a lot of stress.

Is there an option to be mentored or switch role within development, as another poster has outlined? It's not unusual to require others help to get work done. Imposter syndrome is very real.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes, but writing software to test software.

For some weird reason, most people think manual testing is "easy" and can be done by anyone (completely wrong), yet they think automation is great, even though it's value is mostly political ("we have computers testing our software!").

Couple of things about it:

1. Hardly any people know how to do it, so you won't have a problem getting a job.

2. It pays well.

3. You're left alone.

4. It's basically a development job, so you can always move into a development role in the future.

Some great posts from yourself in this thread. I started as a manual QA Tester, eventually became a scrum master and now am a Senior Testing manager. There are many career paths for positive people who communicate well and - as you say - are willing to learn. I can't write a line of code, but I work very well with Development and technical people when necessary. They can't do it all themselves and there's always mutual respect there.

Unfortunately the OP hasn't returned, but your posts are definitely excellent advice imo.

I had a look at your original post and took some time to think about it.

Let me start here - other people on this thread are speaking to their experiences. Many of these experiences seem very specific, across varying industries (many times in software roles) and different size companies.

Here are the points that jump out at me immediately:

* Weekly 1:1's are normal (people asking if that is normal don't seem to be clear on how this works), many times these will be rescheduled to bi-weekly but only for efficiencies sake. This has little or nothing to do with seniority or anything else.

* If your manager is not communicating with you in a clear and concise manner about how you are performing - there is the problem. A managers responsibility is to enable her/his engineers to contribute in impactful ways, grow their career and ultimately reap the benefits of that (for all three - manager, engineer, company).

* If you are clueless about your performance today. Does the company have a performance rating structure? What is the rating? (you don't have to share here). If there is a rating and it is not improving over time (e.g. 2 x 6-month cycles), has any improvement plan been put in place? If not, why not? One can only assume that they are happy with your performance.

* You say you are struggling - there should be a little bit of struggle. If you know how to develop, fix and architect everything off the top of your head, there probably isn't a real developer role there. However, if you are not employing techniques like using StackOverflow, Reddit or elsewhere then you need to start doing this. Furthermore, you need to understand that this is the norm. Also, you should be saying I don't know - a lot. Saying "I don't know" is not an indication of a bad developer as long as you are willing to learn (you are).

* Imposter syndrome - Developers can be smart people (in many different ways) when you live in a pool/bubble of people who ware doing great things, it is very common to downplay yourself. The danger here is that is a slippery slope - a vicious circle where it CAN actually make you less productive, gain clouded judgment and reduce concentration. Basically, it is a feedback loop: 1) I'm not good 2) Feel bad 3) Unmotivated / no concentration -> 1) I'm even worse 2) etc...

* Being underqualified - you talk about being underqualified because of lack of experience yet the questions that you ask are technical. At any fast moving company where people are using new technologies, shipping products every day and solving real-world problems, being "qualified" (by gaining a specific amount of time in said tech) is not a scalable solution. Developers learn on the job. Yes, you should understand CS and coding basics but you build on those on a daily basis.


Now, on to the points of other commenters:

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You have to have a certain type of brain to program. It's not the regular brain.

This is not true and it is highly likely that you are not qualified to assess that.
If you have a study that supports this - please post it. I live and breathe what I do but I don't jump to judgemental conclusions like this. For me, I can get fulfillment from the work I do and I don't feel threatened by other people joining the industry (in fact, I feel encouraged and see massive opportunities to support them).

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I agree.

Programming is not a normal job. Almost no one can do it, and to be good at it you have to genuinely enjoy it. It requires continuous lifelong learning.

Other roles such as product management, QA, support, & technical writing don't require this sort of dedication/passion.

I've been in management (CTO) for 10 years so this is something I know well.

The stuff you read on the BBC about how everyone should learn programming is nonsense. It's not going to work.

I know exactly how you came to that conclusion and if I had your experience, I would feel the same. The average company sees a developer as an expense and doesn't offer a structure that supports improvement or retention over the long term.

beauf wrote: »

In fairness a lot of people will have 20+ years of experience. I know people with 30+ yrs of experience, and they build bad systems repeatedly.

This!

In closing my suggestions are first, do not quit this role.
* Talk with your manager, ask them to give you a performance rating if they are not. Take control of the situations by getting feedback, ask for clear measurable goals e.g. - Okay, I will deliver X in Q1. In doing so under the following circumstances, would you see that as "exceeding your expectations"?

* Every 1:1 should be documented. You should have a word document that tracks each meeting (shared between both of you). Turn on track changes. At end of every 1:1, there should be a summary about what was discussed and a list of action items. The action items should include both you and your manager. It's not that you need your manager to actively do work, but you might way to suggest something like "Provide actional feedback on work/projects on a bi-weekly or monthly basis". Push your manager to do their job. Do this in a polite way.

* Asking about these topics online are really useful and people are helpful. You will get a diverse set of opinions that can be really helpful. If you are stressed and if you are having a hard time, the feedback will be hard to look at constructively in some ways.

* Take a holiday. Can you take some time off for a week or two to collect your thoughts? Do not mention specifics, treat this as a normal holiday if anyone asks.


I wish you all the best and feel free to reach out to me if there is anything that I can do to help.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Computer science has a 50% - 80% drop out rate.

That's the highest drop out rate of any college course.

If you'd studied computer science you would know it's because most of the people in the course cannot grasp programming.

That doesn't really suffice as a study that proves it to be true. There are many moving parts.
CS is broad too - programming is only a small component.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Computer science has a 50% - 80% drop out rate.

That's the highest drop out rate of any college course.

If you'd studied computer science you would know it's because most of the people in the course cannot grasp programming.

It's more complicated than that.
Alot of people were and still are lured into computer science by government and media propaganda.
They are told its a boom area and there are lots of jobs in it so they do it, despite the fact that they are not suited to it.

I agree with you that programming is a difficult skill.

The teaching standards in the colleges and the way programming is taught in Ireland is pretty terrible, at least it was in my time in college.